Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
Re: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
I may not like the country, but taking even a small amount of drugs into a country like Russia or even Singapore will almost always have a negative response.
Re: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
I wouldn't wish a Russian prison on almost anyone, but ..
I find it difficult to believe that an experienced international traveler didn't know better.
I find it difficult to believe that an experienced international traveler didn't know better.
Re: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
He has been released.
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louiseravot
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2025 1:30 pm
Re: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
True — countries like Singapore have very strict drug laws, so even small amounts can lead to serious consequences. When shipping items internationally, especially to places like Singapore, always confirm the correct [URL=https://www.geopostcodes.com/country/si ... stal-code/]Singapore postal codes[/URL] to ensure your package reaches its destination without delay.
Response
He did know better.
In Russia there is a low level possession offense and a much higher possession and distribution offense. He knowingly brought the cannabis into Russia, he thought the low level offense which carries a fine would be imposed not the incarceration level much more serious offense. He was wrong.
In Russia there is a low level possession offense and a much higher possession and distribution offense. He knowingly brought the cannabis into Russia, he thought the low level offense which carries a fine would be imposed not the incarceration level much more serious offense. He was wrong.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
CeeCee1 wrote:
> He has been released.
Glad the U.S. government ultimately recognized that he was wrongfully detained, and got him freed in a prisoner swap.
I can't imagine the hardships he had to endure. I'd rather be in a Scandinavian prison for 12 years than be in a Russian prison for 4.
> He has been released.
Glad the U.S. government ultimately recognized that he was wrongfully detained, and got him freed in a prisoner swap.
I can't imagine the hardships he had to endure. I'd rather be in a Scandinavian prison for 12 years than be in a Russian prison for 4.
Discussion
He wasnt wrongfully detained, he was arrested for possession of an illegal substance (marijuana) which he was illegally in possession of. His American prescription for it does not mitigate the illegality of it. As in the case of Brittney Griner, the US exchanged a Russian cyber criminal convicted on money laundering offenses. Not exactly a balanced exchange.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Discussion
PsyGuy wrote:
> He wasnt wrongfully detained, he was arrested for possession of an illegal
> substance (marijuana) which he was illegally in possession of. His American
> prescription for it does not mitigate the illegality of it. As in the case
> of Brittney Griner, the US exchanged a Russian cyber criminal convicted on
> money laundering offenses. Not exactly a balanced exchange.
That debate has been had before in a different topic, so I won't reply to your comment and repeat the same debate here.
Perhaps we can agree that we're all happy for the man and his family that he got out.
> He wasnt wrongfully detained, he was arrested for possession of an illegal
> substance (marijuana) which he was illegally in possession of. His American
> prescription for it does not mitigate the illegality of it. As in the case
> of Brittney Griner, the US exchanged a Russian cyber criminal convicted on
> money laundering offenses. Not exactly a balanced exchange.
That debate has been had before in a different topic, so I won't reply to your comment and repeat the same debate here.
Perhaps we can agree that we're all happy for the man and his family that he got out.
Reply
@Heliotrope
No, were not in agreement. Im not happy or satisfied that the American government keeps exchanging very serious Russian criminals for what amount to petty drug carriers.
Marc Fogel was traded for a Russian cyber criminal, Alexander Vinnik, who laundered money through a crypto currency exchange for criminals world wide. Brittney Griner was traded for Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer sentenced to 25 years for terrorism related charges. These are real hardened serious criminals who represent a threat to everyone, and the US put them back on the street for an IT and a basketball player who couldnt get it through their head that America ends at the border, and they have to follow the laws of other countries.
No, were not in agreement. Im not happy or satisfied that the American government keeps exchanging very serious Russian criminals for what amount to petty drug carriers.
Marc Fogel was traded for a Russian cyber criminal, Alexander Vinnik, who laundered money through a crypto currency exchange for criminals world wide. Brittney Griner was traded for Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer sentenced to 25 years for terrorism related charges. These are real hardened serious criminals who represent a threat to everyone, and the US put them back on the street for an IT and a basketball player who couldnt get it through their head that America ends at the border, and they have to follow the laws of other countries.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> No, were not in agreement. Im not happy or satisfied that the American
> government keeps exchanging very serious Russian criminals for what amount
> to petty drug carriers.
I said that we could perhaps be happy that he's out and with his family, not that we have to be happy he got traded.
I'm very, very much against those kinds of prisoner trades, because that just incentivises foreign regimes to arrest foreigners on trumped-up charges just sp they can later be traded for whoever they want released.
That doesn't mean I can't be happy for Marc Fogel that he's no longer detained in Russia.
> @Heliotrope
>
> No, were not in agreement. Im not happy or satisfied that the American
> government keeps exchanging very serious Russian criminals for what amount
> to petty drug carriers.
I said that we could perhaps be happy that he's out and with his family, not that we have to be happy he got traded.
I'm very, very much against those kinds of prisoner trades, because that just incentivises foreign regimes to arrest foreigners on trumped-up charges just sp they can later be traded for whoever they want released.
That doesn't mean I can't be happy for Marc Fogel that he's no longer detained in Russia.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> And all Im stating is that I am NOT a member of the group you identify as
> "we", that is "happy for Marc Fogel that hes no longer
> detained in Russia".
Good to know. Not totally unexpected - it's why I used "Perhaps" instead of "I'm sure" in my earlier reply, but I was still hoping to find some common ground for a change.
At least we found out we're both against these kinds of prisoner trades.
> @Heliotrope
>
> And all Im stating is that I am NOT a member of the group you identify as
> "we", that is "happy for Marc Fogel that hes no longer
> detained in Russia".
Good to know. Not totally unexpected - it's why I used "Perhaps" instead of "I'm sure" in my earlier reply, but I was still hoping to find some common ground for a change.
At least we found out we're both against these kinds of prisoner trades.
Reply
@Heliotrope
I understood the nuance.
I suppose, but your position seems to imply you can have it both ways. Youre happy hes out, but you dont like the composition of the trade and its ramifications, that seems very convenient for you. It avoids you having to take a zero-sum position on the issue. If it was your call would you have traded an IT (Fogel) for a cyber criminal who laundered money through a crypto exchange for global criminals and their enterprise? If you would have still done the trade than your displeasure for these types of trades is little more than whimsical musings. If you wouldnt have done the deal, than you would rather him be in a gulag on inflated petty charges, and your emotional state of happiness at his release becomes moot.
I understood the nuance.
I suppose, but your position seems to imply you can have it both ways. Youre happy hes out, but you dont like the composition of the trade and its ramifications, that seems very convenient for you. It avoids you having to take a zero-sum position on the issue. If it was your call would you have traded an IT (Fogel) for a cyber criminal who laundered money through a crypto exchange for global criminals and their enterprise? If you would have still done the trade than your displeasure for these types of trades is little more than whimsical musings. If you wouldnt have done the deal, than you would rather him be in a gulag on inflated petty charges, and your emotional state of happiness at his release becomes moot.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> I understood the nuance.
>
> I suppose, but your position seems to imply you can have it both ways.
> Youre happy hes out, but you dont like the composition of the trade and its
> ramifications, that seems very convenient for you. It avoids you having to
> take a zero-sum position on the issue. If it was your call would you have
> traded an IT (Fogel) for a cyber criminal who laundered money through a
> crypto exchange for global criminals and their enterprise? If you would
> have still done the trade than your displeasure for these types of trades
> is little more than whimsical musings. If you wouldnt have done the deal,
> than you would rather him be in a gulag on inflated petty charges, and your
> emotional state of happiness at his release becomes moot.
No, you can simultaneous be unhappy that a trade has been made (since it will encourage Russia and other countries to make similar arrests with the intent of making similar trades in the future), but still be happy for Mr. Fogel that he's out.
I'm fortunate I'm not in a position of power where I have to decide these sorts of things, since either way I'd feel miserable about it, even though long-term it would be better not to make those trades (for reasons mentioned).
> @Heliotrope
>
> I understood the nuance.
>
> I suppose, but your position seems to imply you can have it both ways.
> Youre happy hes out, but you dont like the composition of the trade and its
> ramifications, that seems very convenient for you. It avoids you having to
> take a zero-sum position on the issue. If it was your call would you have
> traded an IT (Fogel) for a cyber criminal who laundered money through a
> crypto exchange for global criminals and their enterprise? If you would
> have still done the trade than your displeasure for these types of trades
> is little more than whimsical musings. If you wouldnt have done the deal,
> than you would rather him be in a gulag on inflated petty charges, and your
> emotional state of happiness at his release becomes moot.
No, you can simultaneous be unhappy that a trade has been made (since it will encourage Russia and other countries to make similar arrests with the intent of making similar trades in the future), but still be happy for Mr. Fogel that he's out.
I'm fortunate I'm not in a position of power where I have to decide these sorts of things, since either way I'd feel miserable about it, even though long-term it would be better not to make those trades (for reasons mentioned).