Package ??? Love it or leave it
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
Quirky is fine if it's honest. It's not.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
In regards to arguing with PsyGuy, I think George Bernard Shaw's quotation is very applicable.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
Block him from your view and then you only say the bs from him when it's quoted by others.
As for the offer, it looks quite good. Savings potential should be very good.
Eion
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
Block him from your view and then you only say the bs from him when it's quoted by others.
As for the offer, it looks quite good. Savings potential should be very good.
Eion
Reply
Friends and Foes (blocking, black/white listing) on the site only works when your logged in, if youre logged out and reading forums or posts before logging in, you will see everything.
@DiggyA
Thats great that its a big deal to you, for some people cup holders are a very big deal when buying an automobile but like the free lunch/breakfast its still a trivial benefit and minor convenience. Though it does sound like a much more developed breakfast and lunch, its cafeteria food, and if thats your and your kids thing for 5 days a week, sounds like a great match for you.
Some ITs like boarding, some dont.
I dont contradict myself, my responses change with the scenario in some cases, because the data is different. I like my delivery though, not seeing it change.
@GrumblesMcGee
Im dismissive of trivial benefits and minor conveniences because they are minor and trivial.
Id prefer taking the 1000 and cook myself.
@Thames Pirate
Its absolutely honest, unlike the Thames Pirate Fallacy world.
@DiggyA
Thats great that its a big deal to you, for some people cup holders are a very big deal when buying an automobile but like the free lunch/breakfast its still a trivial benefit and minor convenience. Though it does sound like a much more developed breakfast and lunch, its cafeteria food, and if thats your and your kids thing for 5 days a week, sounds like a great match for you.
Some ITs like boarding, some dont.
I dont contradict myself, my responses change with the scenario in some cases, because the data is different. I like my delivery though, not seeing it change.
@GrumblesMcGee
Im dismissive of trivial benefits and minor conveniences because they are minor and trivial.
Id prefer taking the 1000 and cook myself.
@Thames Pirate
Its absolutely honest, unlike the Thames Pirate Fallacy world.
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GrumblesMcGee
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:53 pm
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> Thats great that its a big deal to you, for some people cup holders are a
> very big deal when buying an automobile but like the free lunch/breakfast
> its still a trivial benefit and minor convenience.
For most civilized humans, it's more than a "trivial benefit and minor convenience."
PsyGuy wrote:
> Im dismissive of trivial benefits and minor conveniences because they are
> minor and trivial.
>
> Id prefer taking the 1000 and cook myself.
Seeing as how you then slammed someone else as living in a "fallacy world," your use of argument by definition and circular logic here is beautiful.
How's this for data? I'd love to see you cook 180 meals for 5 people (450 breakfasts, 450 lunches) and then write a detailed and carefully proofread treatise on how you profited $0.37 over the course of a year compared with another school offering you the "minor and trivial" benefit of free meals. And I'm sure that'd be some healthy cooking, too.
Since you're all about "penny wise and pound foolish," look at how you assign value to your own time. Let's conservatively say it's an extra 10 minutes of shopping per week, 20 minutes per day of food preparation, packing, and cleaning. That's almost 2 hours per week. That's ~80 hours a year spent to "take the money."
I don't know about you, but two full weeks of my life are worth more than $1,000, let alone whatever's left of $1,000 (likely nothing) after paying for 900 family meals. But squeeze those pennies! They're not "minor or trivial," after all.
> Thats great that its a big deal to you, for some people cup holders are a
> very big deal when buying an automobile but like the free lunch/breakfast
> its still a trivial benefit and minor convenience.
For most civilized humans, it's more than a "trivial benefit and minor convenience."
PsyGuy wrote:
> Im dismissive of trivial benefits and minor conveniences because they are
> minor and trivial.
>
> Id prefer taking the 1000 and cook myself.
Seeing as how you then slammed someone else as living in a "fallacy world," your use of argument by definition and circular logic here is beautiful.
How's this for data? I'd love to see you cook 180 meals for 5 people (450 breakfasts, 450 lunches) and then write a detailed and carefully proofread treatise on how you profited $0.37 over the course of a year compared with another school offering you the "minor and trivial" benefit of free meals. And I'm sure that'd be some healthy cooking, too.
Since you're all about "penny wise and pound foolish," look at how you assign value to your own time. Let's conservatively say it's an extra 10 minutes of shopping per week, 20 minutes per day of food preparation, packing, and cleaning. That's almost 2 hours per week. That's ~80 hours a year spent to "take the money."
I don't know about you, but two full weeks of my life are worth more than $1,000, let alone whatever's left of $1,000 (likely nothing) after paying for 900 family meals. But squeeze those pennies! They're not "minor or trivial," after all.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
I have a full PsyGuy thing named after me even though what he calls my fallacy is based on a claim I have never made. It's his way of dealing with people who confront him with things like facts.
Reply
@GrumblesMcGee
Im one of those civilized persons who is adept at the preparation of my own food, not some iGen special snowflake who cant take care of themselves. Its a trivial benefit and minor convenience.
Whats there too cook for breakfast for 5 bowls, spoons, and cereal. As previously stated I typically grab a pastry and iced coffee on my way to work.
You do understand that trivial and minor is relative to the other benefits including the major benefits of comp such as salary.
There is no profit, the IS cost of this buffet for a day is still around USD$1/day. They arent giving you any coin at all, there is no buffet or take this allowance. If there were (there) isnt Id take the minor amount of coin and add it to the comp as a minor allowance.
I enjoy the activity of shopping and preparing my food, which I would readily, and easily do as opposed to eating at the same buffet 5 days a week.
Im one of those civilized persons who is adept at the preparation of my own food, not some iGen special snowflake who cant take care of themselves. Its a trivial benefit and minor convenience.
Whats there too cook for breakfast for 5 bowls, spoons, and cereal. As previously stated I typically grab a pastry and iced coffee on my way to work.
You do understand that trivial and minor is relative to the other benefits including the major benefits of comp such as salary.
There is no profit, the IS cost of this buffet for a day is still around USD$1/day. They arent giving you any coin at all, there is no buffet or take this allowance. If there were (there) isnt Id take the minor amount of coin and add it to the comp as a minor allowance.
I enjoy the activity of shopping and preparing my food, which I would readily, and easily do as opposed to eating at the same buffet 5 days a week.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
PsyGuy wrote:
> @GrumblesMcGee
>
> Im one of those civilized persons who is adept at the preparation of my own food,
> not some iGen special snowflake who cant take care of themselves. Its a trivial
> benefit and minor convenience.
>
> Whats there too cook for breakfast for 5 bowls, spoons, and cereal. As previously
> stated I typically grab a pastry and iced coffee on my way to work.
> You do understand that trivial and minor is relative to the other benefits including
> the major benefits of comp such as salary.
>
> There is no profit, the IS cost of this buffet for a day is still around USD$1/day.
> They arent giving you any coin at all, there is no buffet or take this allowance.
> If there were (there) isnt Id take the minor amount of coin and add it to the comp
> as a minor allowance.
>
> I enjoy the activity of shopping and preparing my food, which I would readily, and
> easily do as opposed to eating at the same buffet 5 days a week.
================
This is what I "love" about your posts and what detracts significantly from the actually occasionally useful things you post. It's not enough that you disagree about something, you have to try (and generally fail spectacularly) to pseudo-intellectualize why the other person is wrong instead of accepting they have different opinion/point of view.
In this case, you are obsessed with what the meals cost the school. It doesn't matter what it costs the school, it's what it saves the poster. (in time, energy, money, etc). It doesn't matter if you wouldn't use the benefit (as if that someone elevates you above someone who would). They believe that they would. It is a worthy benefit to them. Why isn't that enough for you?
Are you that hung up on being different, disagreeable, "better" than everyone else (rhetorical question actually)?
> @GrumblesMcGee
>
> Im one of those civilized persons who is adept at the preparation of my own food,
> not some iGen special snowflake who cant take care of themselves. Its a trivial
> benefit and minor convenience.
>
> Whats there too cook for breakfast for 5 bowls, spoons, and cereal. As previously
> stated I typically grab a pastry and iced coffee on my way to work.
> You do understand that trivial and minor is relative to the other benefits including
> the major benefits of comp such as salary.
>
> There is no profit, the IS cost of this buffet for a day is still around USD$1/day.
> They arent giving you any coin at all, there is no buffet or take this allowance.
> If there were (there) isnt Id take the minor amount of coin and add it to the comp
> as a minor allowance.
>
> I enjoy the activity of shopping and preparing my food, which I would readily, and
> easily do as opposed to eating at the same buffet 5 days a week.
================
This is what I "love" about your posts and what detracts significantly from the actually occasionally useful things you post. It's not enough that you disagree about something, you have to try (and generally fail spectacularly) to pseudo-intellectualize why the other person is wrong instead of accepting they have different opinion/point of view.
In this case, you are obsessed with what the meals cost the school. It doesn't matter what it costs the school, it's what it saves the poster. (in time, energy, money, etc). It doesn't matter if you wouldn't use the benefit (as if that someone elevates you above someone who would). They believe that they would. It is a worthy benefit to them. Why isn't that enough for you?
Are you that hung up on being different, disagreeable, "better" than everyone else (rhetorical question actually)?
Reply
@WT123
For the same reason you dont get that I dont have to adapt someone elses opinion as my own or agree with them because my position and opinion are different than theres. A cup of water may be everything to the person dying of thirst, but the the person ho just had a half liter of water and has easy access to it, that cup of water is a trivial and minor benefit.
For the same reason you dont get that I dont have to adapt someone elses opinion as my own or agree with them because my position and opinion are different than theres. A cup of water may be everything to the person dying of thirst, but the the person ho just had a half liter of water and has easy access to it, that cup of water is a trivial and minor benefit.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
No one is asking you to adapt someone else's opinion (or god forbid ever admit to being wrong). But when you twist yourself in knots with ridiculous/illogical arguments that even you don't really believe, it just makes you look silly and gives your occasionally good input less credibility. Out.
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GrumblesMcGee
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:53 pm
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
wrldtrvlr123 wrote:
> No one is asking you to adapt someone else's opinion (or god forbid ever
> admit to being wrong). But when you twist yourself in knots with
> ridiculous/illogical arguments that even you don't really believe, it just
> makes you look silly and gives your occasionally good input less
> credibility. Out.
Exactly. It'd be easier if PsyGuy never had anything of value to add. Methinks there's a very carefully constructed semi-troll persona at work here.
@PsyGuy
Let's just agree on these simple points:
1. One of the most important calculations (arguable the most important from a financial perspective) a person should make in evaluating a contract is SAVINGS POTENTIAL.
2. Savings potential is highly influenced by:
a. Local factors (i.e. cost of living)
b. Benefits (e.g., free meals, tuition)
c. Individual circumstances (e.g., family size)
d. Lifestyle choices (e.g., whether they prefer to cook frequently, just "grab a pastry and iced coffee)
3. Not everyone is you.
Every dollar you don't spend, be it on groceries, coffee, pastry, or street food, is a dollar saved. Savings is worth just as much as salary. (You could argue that a dollar saved is worth more than a dollar earned, as the additional dollar earned may be subject to taxes, but let's not overcomplicate it.) The relevant calculation isn't what something costs a school, it's how it benefits you.
You can spin benefits and categorize them as "major" or "minor" all day long. That's based on your preferences, lifestyle, and circumstances. That doesn't even account for convenience, which may or may not be a significant consideration for a person.
The OP is in a family of five. Financially, that's 10 meals each work day. The "replacement cost" of those ~1,800 meals is a factor in calculating savings potential. And the convenience aspect can be considered alongside other "quality of life" / workplace factors.
> No one is asking you to adapt someone else's opinion (or god forbid ever
> admit to being wrong). But when you twist yourself in knots with
> ridiculous/illogical arguments that even you don't really believe, it just
> makes you look silly and gives your occasionally good input less
> credibility. Out.
Exactly. It'd be easier if PsyGuy never had anything of value to add. Methinks there's a very carefully constructed semi-troll persona at work here.
@PsyGuy
Let's just agree on these simple points:
1. One of the most important calculations (arguable the most important from a financial perspective) a person should make in evaluating a contract is SAVINGS POTENTIAL.
2. Savings potential is highly influenced by:
a. Local factors (i.e. cost of living)
b. Benefits (e.g., free meals, tuition)
c. Individual circumstances (e.g., family size)
d. Lifestyle choices (e.g., whether they prefer to cook frequently, just "grab a pastry and iced coffee)
3. Not everyone is you.
Every dollar you don't spend, be it on groceries, coffee, pastry, or street food, is a dollar saved. Savings is worth just as much as salary. (You could argue that a dollar saved is worth more than a dollar earned, as the additional dollar earned may be subject to taxes, but let's not overcomplicate it.) The relevant calculation isn't what something costs a school, it's how it benefits you.
You can spin benefits and categorize them as "major" or "minor" all day long. That's based on your preferences, lifestyle, and circumstances. That doesn't even account for convenience, which may or may not be a significant consideration for a person.
The OP is in a family of five. Financially, that's 10 meals each work day. The "replacement cost" of those ~1,800 meals is a factor in calculating savings potential. And the convenience aspect can be considered alongside other "quality of life" / workplace factors.
Reply
@WT123
I have readily acknowledged when I have been wrong in the past. This benefit is trivial and minor, thats my position. I absolutely believe it, otherwise why would I continue to defend it. What I believe to be right, and good and true IS right and good and true.
@GrumblesMcGee
Thats great that its a big deal to you, for some people cup holders are a very big deal when buying an automobile but like the free lunch/breakfast its still a trivial benefit and minor convenience.
Im dismissive of trivial benefits and minor conveniences because they are minor and trivial to me, and thats the perspective I post from.
I have readily acknowledged when I have been wrong in the past. This benefit is trivial and minor, thats my position. I absolutely believe it, otherwise why would I continue to defend it. What I believe to be right, and good and true IS right and good and true.
@GrumblesMcGee
Thats great that its a big deal to you, for some people cup holders are a very big deal when buying an automobile but like the free lunch/breakfast its still a trivial benefit and minor convenience.
Im dismissive of trivial benefits and minor conveniences because they are minor and trivial to me, and thats the perspective I post from.
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IE_sciteacher
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:05 pm
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
Lets play the game!
Teaching couple each with 6 years of IB experience in medium-high demand positions.
Location: Southern China at a Strong Not-for-profit T2 International School
Salary Each: $46000USD, plus 25% in RMB for living expenses, plus 10% for retirement (all taxes paid by school)
Insurance: Full International and premiums paid by school, minus USA with the option to add at an additional cost
Flights: $2200 each
Housing: 15500 RMB a month (combined)
PD: $1250 USD (each)
Settling In and Shipping: $3000 and $1500 (each)
Visas Costs are covered by the school
Life and Longterm disability coverage
Teaching couple each with 6 years of IB experience in medium-high demand positions.
Location: Southern China at a Strong Not-for-profit T2 International School
Salary Each: $46000USD, plus 25% in RMB for living expenses, plus 10% for retirement (all taxes paid by school)
Insurance: Full International and premiums paid by school, minus USA with the option to add at an additional cost
Flights: $2200 each
Housing: 15500 RMB a month (combined)
PD: $1250 USD (each)
Settling In and Shipping: $3000 and $1500 (each)
Visas Costs are covered by the school
Life and Longterm disability coverage
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2139
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
Sounds decent. If you think it's a good school, go for it.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
IE_sciteacher wrote:
> Lets play the game!
>
> Teaching couple each with 6 years of IB experience in medium-high demand positions.
>
> Location: Southern China at a Strong Not-for-profit T2 International School
>
> Salary Each: $46000USD, plus 25% in RMB for living expenses, plus 10% for retirement
> (all taxes paid by school)
> Insurance: Full International and premiums paid by school, minus USA with the option
> to add at an additional cost
> Flights: $2200 each
> Housing: 15500 RMB a month (combined)
> PD: $1250 USD (each)
> Settling In and Shipping: $3000 and $1500 (each)
> Visas Costs are covered by the school
> Life and Longterm disability coverage
================
We lived/taught in Beijing previously. My frame of reference is a bit past it's sell by date, but I would say the additional 25% and the salary being net puts it a little beyond decent and into good. The fact that you are a teaching couple and the housing allowance is fairly reasonable means that you would likely be able to bank most (or even all) of one person's salary, and that's not even taking into account the 10% for retirement.
If the school seems decent to good and you are happy with the idea of the location then you certainly could do much worse for a few years.
> Lets play the game!
>
> Teaching couple each with 6 years of IB experience in medium-high demand positions.
>
> Location: Southern China at a Strong Not-for-profit T2 International School
>
> Salary Each: $46000USD, plus 25% in RMB for living expenses, plus 10% for retirement
> (all taxes paid by school)
> Insurance: Full International and premiums paid by school, minus USA with the option
> to add at an additional cost
> Flights: $2200 each
> Housing: 15500 RMB a month (combined)
> PD: $1250 USD (each)
> Settling In and Shipping: $3000 and $1500 (each)
> Visas Costs are covered by the school
> Life and Longterm disability coverage
================
We lived/taught in Beijing previously. My frame of reference is a bit past it's sell by date, but I would say the additional 25% and the salary being net puts it a little beyond decent and into good. The fact that you are a teaching couple and the housing allowance is fairly reasonable means that you would likely be able to bank most (or even all) of one person's salary, and that's not even taking into account the 10% for retirement.
If the school seems decent to good and you are happy with the idea of the location then you certainly could do much worse for a few years.
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MusicTravel30
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 8:52 am
Re: Package ??? Love it or leave it
It is a fantastic salary and the benefits are good too. China is cheap (still), especially in a "Tier 2 city". You will live like kings/queens.
Anyone saying it is less than great is insane.
Anyone saying it is less than great is insane.