Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

[Thames Pirate]

Whatever. Your reputation for dishonesty precedes you. You do what you feel works, but advising people to lie only makes things worse for you.

[sid]

PsyGuy wrote:
> More an air popped popcorn person myself with a little spray of EVO and then salt
> and pepper, shake to distribute.

There goes my presumption that you sprinkle your popcorn with the apostrophes you decline to use in your writing.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

I should hope so, subterfuge and deception are skills and all skills need practices; if you dont use it you lose it.

@sid

I cant stomach apostrophes, it would ruin the popcorn, and good EVO is pricey here. I take my apostrophes to temple once a year and leave them as an offering to the ancestors.

[Heliotrope]

If you're on your tour as a fake parent, and you happen to run into the principal and get introduced to him, and then interview with him a couple of years later, saying you were just there looking around for a friend would still raise suspicion I expect.

But more importantly, you shouldn't lie.
Lying might be a skill (so is torturing small animals), but it's not one you should be proud of, or make use of.
The US president might (privately) disagree, but he's everything we should try to be not.

If you present yourself as a teacher and get a tour, you can ask more relevant questions, you might get introduced to people that might prove to be valuable contacts later on, and there's the possibility it might work in your favour come interview time. If they say no to a tour, too bad, but not a big deal.

Thanks for all the answers btw, I'll definitely email them.

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

Diogenes have you on his short list as well?

Why do you suspect it would raise suspicion, a friend scouting an IS who years later is applying for a position is suspect why, because it makes your point that deception is bad?

Deception and subterfuge is a useful, essential life skill, torturing small animals no. So intelligence officers in clandestine assignments should be open and honest? So moving to the next point its okay to deceive for nationalism but not your own self interest?

You can still ask relevant questions, taking a tour as a parent dosnt make you not an IT. You might, you might get introduced to people ho are valuable contacts as a parent, which could work in your favor later. None of those maybes happens if they decline the interview which is more probable as an IT leveraging an impromptu interview. Parent tour has a higher probability of yes, why risk lower outcomes? If they say no and its not a big deal, why bother asking at all to begin with. Either something is worth doing, or it isnt, and if its worth doing its worth getting to yes.

[sid]

Lying is a skill, and yet any form of deception in a job application is grounds for dismissal whenever it is discovered. And yet teachers assign consequences to lying students. And yet governments prosecute various forms of deception. And on and on.
It may be a skill, but it is not a skill widely encouraged and rewarded.

[PsyGuy]

@Sid

"If" its discovered. Yet the incidence of academic dishonesty continue to increase, because the rewards are greater than the risks. Rarely. Not rewarded, every CEO of a fortune 100 company, politics, president of the USA. You must not know what rewards are.
Every guy who has ever been asked "do I look fat" around a certain time of the month knows the right answer to that question whether true or not.
Of course @Sid is in leadership.

[Heliotrope]

It's not about rewards and risk, it's about being a decent human being.

How can you discipline a student who is cheating, if you yourself consider lying & deceiving useful skills?
Or will you tell the student he just needs to get better at it?

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

I am a decent human being; when parents ask about their child I say "They have a number of positive qualities, I have come to value" instead of saying the truth that their child is a lazy malcontent. When Im a guest and the food is impalatable, I smile and make a positive compliment. When a member of leadership has a poo worthy power point for PD that takes up my afternoon, I give them positive feedback on the criticality of their content. I guess when your a dinner guest you give your host the full uncensored review, and I suppose when a friend just needs to vent over a pint you cut them off and call them a bore.

They failed at cheating, performance outcomes matter, havent you heard about "the hidden curriculum", or is that too deceptive for you?

[Thames Pirate]

Lying is only useful if you are a stealth recruiter with your trench coat and secret brochures.

I'll let your responses dictate what opinion of you as a human being people hold. They speak for themselves.

To the OP: It's not a good idea to lie even when it does have a payoff. In this case, it's doubly stupid because there is no payoff.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

Deception and subterfuge are useful in a lot of common day to day activities and events, including stealth recruiting, though there are no trench coats.
I would hope my responses speak to my character.
There is a pay off, a better probability of a tour and no risk.

[Heliotrope]

PsyGuy wrote:
> There is a pay off, a better probability of a tour and no risk.

Robbing a visually impaired elderly lady in her home in the woods at 3am has a pay off and no risk.
It's still wrong though.

[sid]

I’m running out of popcorn.

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

Deception is wrong. You do realize there is a difference between robbery and deception, right?

[Heliotrope]

@PsyGuy

I do.
But do you realise there's also a similarity?
It's this: both are not ok.