@kris10msmith
Ina perfect world yes, but sometimes you gt referral lists for the same vacancy a couple times in the same day, its a principal training on the EAS system, but yes the referral list generally indicates that the vacancy has gone CONUS, and there were no suitable local hires.
DODDS Hiring Question
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kris10msmith
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:50 pm
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
What's the usual turn around time between creating a referral list and a principal scheduling interviews? I imagine in March there is no rush to hire?
Reply
@kris10msmith
Its either very quickly or somewhere close to never. When a principal has their actual call list, they usually start calling at the same time. If its anything else its forever.
With March its not a call list, its just a principal brainstorming ideas or something. We are still in session, testing is coming up, no ones going to use spare time for interviews.
Understand a referral list doesnt mean you get called or get an interview. There could be 3 candidates on it, there could be 20 or 100. If a principal selects someone before they even get to you, thats it, no interview.
Its either very quickly or somewhere close to never. When a principal has their actual call list, they usually start calling at the same time. If its anything else its forever.
With March its not a call list, its just a principal brainstorming ideas or something. We are still in session, testing is coming up, no ones going to use spare time for interviews.
Understand a referral list doesnt mean you get called or get an interview. There could be 3 candidates on it, there could be 20 or 100. If a principal selects someone before they even get to you, thats it, no interview.
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kris10msmith
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:50 pm
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
Ok thanks, I appreciate the input. I am going to keep my phone on me and ringer on at all times (with the exception of during our testing period) just in case. I am hoping to receive a call about this position, surprisingly, it is not for sped, but the 4 sped certs can't hurt my chances as this is a complex that offers all sped categories. What's the difference between a referral and call list? I assume the call list is something the principal makes and I won't get an automated email?
Reply
@kris10msmith
From your perspective the difference between a call list and a referral list is very little. When an admin (some principals pass along their EAS credentials to their AP, etc.) wants to 'finalize a list' they push a button that creates a pdf document for the admin, it also activates the automatic email function in EAS that results in candidates getting an email. Sometimes though you will see candidates thinking EAS is having a meltdown because they will receive multiple EAS referral notifications for the same job and same day, this is an admin who is basically brainstorming, sometimes they will close each of those referrals resulting in automated "not selected" emails. You have that happen 3 times in one day from the candidate perspective and it can be stressful.
This however isnt the only way an admin can create their call list (which is the actual list the admin will use for contacting candidates), they can go into EAS and copy and paste names and contact information into an application like "word", print that and contact candidates, and the candidates get cold called without the EAS email notification of a referral list because the principal never 'finalized' the list in EAS. In the same manner an admin doesnt even need to copy and paste, they can search for candidates in EAS make a draft list, and just make calls from the computer screen, again without ever finalizing the list, again resulting in no EAS email.
Be on the lookout on your phone for an international incoming call on your phone even during testing, if you get that call tell your hallway monitor you have an emergency phone call. You need to way the risk of those consequences against this job, which could literally be filled within hours, as an admin moves down the interview list. Then again you could take that risk for little more than a secretary or AP calling to schedule an interview at a later time (in which you might be the 15th or 20th, or last interview, that never materializes), its a CBA (Cost-Benefit Ana1ysis) only you can make.
Lastly, as an aside, if this type of behavior and general policy and procedure chaffs you or rubs you the wrong way, this isnt the service/job for you, many of our campuses have some degree of what I call ''GOT'' (Game of Thrones) type drama, its just the way its done in a system that has not evolved much from how things were done in the lats 80s/90s. Some complexes are better, especially the ones in PAC that have higher turnover and have more or less streamlined their recruitment and assistance process because they do it more often, compared to EUR complexes that largely receive transfers who are assumed to know how the system works, and there is little to no formalized system in place for noobs, because a CONUS hire to those areas is relatively uncommon. Still those are very broad generalizations SK was a mess (still is, but everyone quieter about it) with their GOT drama, and some places like OKI have it down almost to a science because that complex in general is a revolving door of PCSs. Then you have complexes like Italy that are basically "Hotel California" that everyones wants to transfer to, and they get there and they can never leave because there they arent hardship and their CAT priority never gets high enough in the new transfer system (with its low number of transfers) to get out.
From your perspective the difference between a call list and a referral list is very little. When an admin (some principals pass along their EAS credentials to their AP, etc.) wants to 'finalize a list' they push a button that creates a pdf document for the admin, it also activates the automatic email function in EAS that results in candidates getting an email. Sometimes though you will see candidates thinking EAS is having a meltdown because they will receive multiple EAS referral notifications for the same job and same day, this is an admin who is basically brainstorming, sometimes they will close each of those referrals resulting in automated "not selected" emails. You have that happen 3 times in one day from the candidate perspective and it can be stressful.
This however isnt the only way an admin can create their call list (which is the actual list the admin will use for contacting candidates), they can go into EAS and copy and paste names and contact information into an application like "word", print that and contact candidates, and the candidates get cold called without the EAS email notification of a referral list because the principal never 'finalized' the list in EAS. In the same manner an admin doesnt even need to copy and paste, they can search for candidates in EAS make a draft list, and just make calls from the computer screen, again without ever finalizing the list, again resulting in no EAS email.
Be on the lookout on your phone for an international incoming call on your phone even during testing, if you get that call tell your hallway monitor you have an emergency phone call. You need to way the risk of those consequences against this job, which could literally be filled within hours, as an admin moves down the interview list. Then again you could take that risk for little more than a secretary or AP calling to schedule an interview at a later time (in which you might be the 15th or 20th, or last interview, that never materializes), its a CBA (Cost-Benefit Ana1ysis) only you can make.
Lastly, as an aside, if this type of behavior and general policy and procedure chaffs you or rubs you the wrong way, this isnt the service/job for you, many of our campuses have some degree of what I call ''GOT'' (Game of Thrones) type drama, its just the way its done in a system that has not evolved much from how things were done in the lats 80s/90s. Some complexes are better, especially the ones in PAC that have higher turnover and have more or less streamlined their recruitment and assistance process because they do it more often, compared to EUR complexes that largely receive transfers who are assumed to know how the system works, and there is little to no formalized system in place for noobs, because a CONUS hire to those areas is relatively uncommon. Still those are very broad generalizations SK was a mess (still is, but everyone quieter about it) with their GOT drama, and some places like OKI have it down almost to a science because that complex in general is a revolving door of PCSs. Then you have complexes like Italy that are basically "Hotel California" that everyones wants to transfer to, and they get there and they can never leave because there they arent hardship and their CAT priority never gets high enough in the new transfer system (with its low number of transfers) to get out.
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kris10msmith
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:50 pm
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
Now I have Hotel California stuck in my head!!!! Well played.
Unfortunately for me, during state tests (which are FIVE weeks during may and June) phones aren't allowed in the test session and getting caught means you can be fired and lose your license. I mean, my kids are 8. But they are afraid we will take pictures of the test questions and share them. Stateside testing is out of control. I will have to leave my phone with a teacher I trust that isn't testing and have them schedule in my absence. Lol.
good comment about newbies. I was wondering that myself. I'm hoping I will fit in with some teachers where ever I go.
Unfortunately for me, during state tests (which are FIVE weeks during may and June) phones aren't allowed in the test session and getting caught means you can be fired and lose your license. I mean, my kids are 8. But they are afraid we will take pictures of the test questions and share them. Stateside testing is out of control. I will have to leave my phone with a teacher I trust that isn't testing and have them schedule in my absence. Lol.
good comment about newbies. I was wondering that myself. I'm hoping I will fit in with some teachers where ever I go.
Reply
@kris10msmith
Its one of the few songs I can sing Karaoke to as its largely a "spoken" song, and I actually know the lyrics to it (that and "Let it Go", as Im a mezzo-soprano, and I heard the song so many times it imprinted itself in my brain). That and "Let it Go" sounds even better in Japanese, its 'elegant' (better than Korean and Mandarin [though have never heard it in Cantonese, which has a wider phonetic selection], despite what the Kpop girls of Gangnam say, Shibuya (Ebisu specifically) girls take the gold, silver and bronze.
Talk to your building principal about having your mobile calls forwarded to the main office of your DS so that at least a secretary can take a message or answer the phone. If they call for an appointment you can get back to them that day to schedule the interview, and if its an actual cold call interview, you can have a hall monitor cover your room.
Its one of the few songs I can sing Karaoke to as its largely a "spoken" song, and I actually know the lyrics to it (that and "Let it Go", as Im a mezzo-soprano, and I heard the song so many times it imprinted itself in my brain). That and "Let it Go" sounds even better in Japanese, its 'elegant' (better than Korean and Mandarin [though have never heard it in Cantonese, which has a wider phonetic selection], despite what the Kpop girls of Gangnam say, Shibuya (Ebisu specifically) girls take the gold, silver and bronze.
Talk to your building principal about having your mobile calls forwarded to the main office of your DS so that at least a secretary can take a message or answer the phone. If they call for an appointment you can get back to them that day to schedule the interview, and if its an actual cold call interview, you can have a hall monitor cover your room.
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kris10msmith
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:50 pm
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
Spoken songs can be hard. I've made a fool of myself with "If a Had $1,000,000", but Ice Ice Baby always works. Lol
I will pass off my phone; they won't interrupt the test session though- it's stupid strict. Hall monitors can't procror.
I have to have the hall monitor grab another licensed teacher if myself or the second proctor has to use the bathroom. But, at least someone can answer my phone and schedule the interview.
So sounds like I may not hear anything for a while, if at all. But fingers crossed!
I will pass off my phone; they won't interrupt the test session though- it's stupid strict. Hall monitors can't procror.
I have to have the hall monitor grab another licensed teacher if myself or the second proctor has to use the bathroom. But, at least someone can answer my phone and schedule the interview.
So sounds like I may not hear anything for a while, if at all. But fingers crossed!
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kris10msmith
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:50 pm
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
HR mentioned they have 10 days after finalizing the referral list to make a decision. Is that standard procedure, or something new this year?
Reply
@kris10msmith
Its a procedure that means nothing, and is not regulatory. A principal can hold onto their staffing requisition for a very long time. The referral list is not binding, a principal can just create a new one or in the rare case request another one. If a principal generated a referral list and took 2 weeks or 3 weeks and then submitted selectees, nothing bad would happen to them.
The 10 day decision is just something that HR tells candidates to tell them something.
Its a procedure that means nothing, and is not regulatory. A principal can hold onto their staffing requisition for a very long time. The referral list is not binding, a principal can just create a new one or in the rare case request another one. If a principal generated a referral list and took 2 weeks or 3 weeks and then submitted selectees, nothing bad would happen to them.
The 10 day decision is just something that HR tells candidates to tell them something.
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
I made the referral list for a teaching position in Bahrain, after I mistakenly didn't realize Bahrain was on my target locations list when my application was updated. It is my understanding that I could potentially transfer out of Bahrain after one year. Can you tell me of the possibility or likelihood of transferring elsewhere after one year in Bahrain? And what does "excessed educators" and "non-excessed educators" mean?
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1166
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
ccb71 wrote:
> I made the referral list for a teaching position in Bahrain, after I
> mistakenly didn't realize Bahrain was on my target locations list when my
> application was updated. It is my understanding that I could potentially
> transfer out of Bahrain after one year. Can you tell me of the possibility
> or likelihood of transferring elsewhere after one year in Bahrain? And what
> does "excessed educators" and "non-excessed educators"
> mean?
-----------------------
No one can say what the odds of a transfer would be, although it would be virtually impossible after one year since you generally need to be off of provisional status to enter the transfer round (which usually takes two years).
Bahrain is considered a hardship location but there have been recently been many more people applying for transfers than receiving them. If you could get to A+ status (the highest in the transfer process) you would have a decent chance after a few years.
Excessed means that your position has been cut back at your current school (or a position in your field and you were lowest man/woman on the totem pole). If you are a permanent teacher then they have to find you a job somewhere in the world.
Non-excessed means you entered the transfer round voluntarily and are rated A+-F based on your location, years of service, etc.
If you are excessed AND choose to enter the transfer round, you are guaranteed of least a C rating and the knowledge they will put you somewhere (and try to give you one of your preferred destinations if there is an opening that matches your certifications).
> I made the referral list for a teaching position in Bahrain, after I
> mistakenly didn't realize Bahrain was on my target locations list when my
> application was updated. It is my understanding that I could potentially
> transfer out of Bahrain after one year. Can you tell me of the possibility
> or likelihood of transferring elsewhere after one year in Bahrain? And what
> does "excessed educators" and "non-excessed educators"
> mean?
-----------------------
No one can say what the odds of a transfer would be, although it would be virtually impossible after one year since you generally need to be off of provisional status to enter the transfer round (which usually takes two years).
Bahrain is considered a hardship location but there have been recently been many more people applying for transfers than receiving them. If you could get to A+ status (the highest in the transfer process) you would have a decent chance after a few years.
Excessed means that your position has been cut back at your current school (or a position in your field and you were lowest man/woman on the totem pole). If you are a permanent teacher then they have to find you a job somewhere in the world.
Non-excessed means you entered the transfer round voluntarily and are rated A+-F based on your location, years of service, etc.
If you are excessed AND choose to enter the transfer round, you are guaranteed of least a C rating and the knowledge they will put you somewhere (and try to give you one of your preferred destinations if there is an opening that matches your certifications).
reply
@ccb71
You really want all DoDDS selections marked in your profile, for a number of reasons. You could transfer out of Bahrain after one year its a hardship post, but its not likely at least in the formal transfer system. It depends where you want to go, youd have a lower priority but for some areas (mostly PAC) it could happen after a year. The advantage of Bahrain is that its in the Med district meaning its easier to get to Spain/Italy through the shadow transfer system.
DoDDS shrunk a lot in the past years, there were a lot more transfer requests than there were transfers, last year they never got passed the As for transfers.
An excessd educator is someone who had their appointment dissolve. Their DS closed, enrollment shrunk and they are an over staff now, their program content area isnt scheduleable. If you are a permanent appointment (tenure) then they must find a place for you, even if it means doing something else, or keeping a desk/chair warm (this is how a lot of APs end up as ISSs and SDCs).
You can enter the transfer round if your excessed and you get a minimum of a C rating, but thats really not that great, and there is a certain amount of "gaming the system", for some its better to be excessed then transfer, for other the opposite is true. A number of DTs would love to be in Bahrain or Turkey so that they can get into the shadow transfer system.
The issue of "certified" in the area really doesnt mean much, HQHR can grant you an emergency certification in anything, even something you have no business teaching, which puts you on sort or a deadmans clock, because you can only keep that emergency certification for so long.
Non-excessed means youre a voluntary and eligible transfer candidate. Your rating (A+ too F) is based on location and SCD (System Computation Date).
You really want all DoDDS selections marked in your profile, for a number of reasons. You could transfer out of Bahrain after one year its a hardship post, but its not likely at least in the formal transfer system. It depends where you want to go, youd have a lower priority but for some areas (mostly PAC) it could happen after a year. The advantage of Bahrain is that its in the Med district meaning its easier to get to Spain/Italy through the shadow transfer system.
DoDDS shrunk a lot in the past years, there were a lot more transfer requests than there were transfers, last year they never got passed the As for transfers.
An excessd educator is someone who had their appointment dissolve. Their DS closed, enrollment shrunk and they are an over staff now, their program content area isnt scheduleable. If you are a permanent appointment (tenure) then they must find a place for you, even if it means doing something else, or keeping a desk/chair warm (this is how a lot of APs end up as ISSs and SDCs).
You can enter the transfer round if your excessed and you get a minimum of a C rating, but thats really not that great, and there is a certain amount of "gaming the system", for some its better to be excessed then transfer, for other the opposite is true. A number of DTs would love to be in Bahrain or Turkey so that they can get into the shadow transfer system.
The issue of "certified" in the area really doesnt mean much, HQHR can grant you an emergency certification in anything, even something you have no business teaching, which puts you on sort or a deadmans clock, because you can only keep that emergency certification for so long.
Non-excessed means youre a voluntary and eligible transfer candidate. Your rating (A+ too F) is based on location and SCD (System Computation Date).
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Jangja4ever
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:05 pm
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
Hello,
I'm extremely grateful to have stumbled on this page. It has always been my dream, since leaving the military, to teach at a DoDDS school. I was placed on the referral list for a few stateside positions, got one offer, which I turned down in 2014. This year, I was made an offer to work in DDESS PR and I was also made an offer to work for an international school in South Korea. I’m having an extremely hard time deciding which position to take because I’m wondering if I should: a) take the DDESS position to get my foot in the door, the principal seems to really like me and says after a year I can transfer to an overseas post since preference is given to internal applicants or b) take the International Korean school and apply again in the hopes of getting hired as a local hire?
I should mention the specs for both:
Korea
Free apartment
Free meals
$45,000 U.S. (I have to pay Korean taxes and 8% health insurance and national pension)
$1000 Xmas bonus
$2000-5000 yearly (afterschool activity bonus)
$2000 yearly round trip tickets
13th month bonus pay
The biggest con for this is the political climate in the region right now but the benefits seem decent.
DDESS PR
$64,000 (I pay federal and NYS taxes)
$18,000 pounds household goods shipped
$Cola 3.6%
RAT
Government storage
Federal retirement system
The biggest con is that I do not get housing provided for me and I would need to purchase a vehicle to get by, I currently don’t drive. I’m tempted to take DDESS just to get IN the system if it means I get to transfer to an overseas location. For those of you who are in the system can you please chime in?
I'm extremely grateful to have stumbled on this page. It has always been my dream, since leaving the military, to teach at a DoDDS school. I was placed on the referral list for a few stateside positions, got one offer, which I turned down in 2014. This year, I was made an offer to work in DDESS PR and I was also made an offer to work for an international school in South Korea. I’m having an extremely hard time deciding which position to take because I’m wondering if I should: a) take the DDESS position to get my foot in the door, the principal seems to really like me and says after a year I can transfer to an overseas post since preference is given to internal applicants or b) take the International Korean school and apply again in the hopes of getting hired as a local hire?
I should mention the specs for both:
Korea
Free apartment
Free meals
$45,000 U.S. (I have to pay Korean taxes and 8% health insurance and national pension)
$1000 Xmas bonus
$2000-5000 yearly (afterschool activity bonus)
$2000 yearly round trip tickets
13th month bonus pay
The biggest con for this is the political climate in the region right now but the benefits seem decent.
DDESS PR
$64,000 (I pay federal and NYS taxes)
$18,000 pounds household goods shipped
$Cola 3.6%
RAT
Government storage
Federal retirement system
The biggest con is that I do not get housing provided for me and I would need to purchase a vehicle to get by, I currently don’t drive. I’m tempted to take DDESS just to get IN the system if it means I get to transfer to an overseas location. For those of you who are in the system can you please chime in?
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TeacherWNoRoots
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 3:23 pm
Re: DODDS Hiring Question
Transfers are not guaranteed, no matter what the admin says. They are certainly possible, but they can't be counted on.
If you go to the International school in Korea and are hired for DoDEA, there is also no guarantee that you will get housing, etc. Many will say that it's guaranteed as long as you can show that you were hired for your local position with travel as a benefit, but HR can still deny the housing and travel. Anecdotal success in gaining overseas rights as a local hire does not mean that it's
always done.
If you go to the International school in Korea and are hired for DoDEA, there is also no guarantee that you will get housing, etc. Many will say that it's guaranteed as long as you can show that you were hired for your local position with travel as a benefit, but HR can still deny the housing and travel. Anecdotal success in gaining overseas rights as a local hire does not mean that it's
always done.