Hi All
I have noticed over the 12 years I have been using Search to fin jobs, is that the salary and benefits is not accurate. Almost all the schools I look at on the database and then have interviews with, offer less than what is on the Search website. Has anyone else noticed the same?
It is a shame one company dominates the market. I know ISS,TIE, TES, TRI etc also recruit, but it seems Search are trying to cash in on teachers taking positions even if it means not publishing the correct important financial information for them.
Any thoughts would be great.
Thank you.
Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
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Art Teacher
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:54 pm
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
Your best bet would be to contact a teacher or the HR and ask if they have a published salary and benefits scale on their website or else where. Schools promoting transparency do, whereas shady ones don't.
I, too, feel more and more schools should use Schrole/Skype to recruit teachers for future recruitment and eliminate middle (wo)men. If GRC can get bigger by having more tier 1/2 schools joining them, that could provide a pretty good alternative.
I, too, feel more and more schools should use Schrole/Skype to recruit teachers for future recruitment and eliminate middle (wo)men. If GRC can get bigger by having more tier 1/2 schools joining them, that could provide a pretty good alternative.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
It's not SA or ISS cooking the books. They just fill in what schools tell them too. And having been the person sometimes filling in our school's form, I can attest it's hard to do in an appropriate manner. Eight years plus a masters, easy. How much can a person save? Ridiculous question. Salary range? Easy but very misleading. The typical applicant will be offered a salary that is very different from either our highest or our lowest paid teacher. One should never use outliers to describe what is typical.
Perhaps one day soon the agencies will start using box and whisker graphs. It would be far more accurate.
Perhaps one day soon the agencies will start using box and whisker graphs. It would be far more accurate.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
LOL on the B & W graphs, Sid! Maybe put it all out there in B(lack) & W(hite)?
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
Another vote for the box & whisker graph!
My experience is that some of the school-provided information (it's not the agencies' fault) is accurate and some inaccurate. I once went through a whole series of interviews to be offered a contract with a salary so much lower than the one posted on Search I was shocked. I turned them down for that reason, and told them so. There was some squirming but no explanation. I figured if they lied about the salary on Search, who knows what else they'd lie about.
My current position pays me more than they have posted on Search. That was a surprise. Other positions have been spot on.
The best is when a school shares their salary scale with you, either during the interviews, or, better yet, on their website.
My experience is that some of the school-provided information (it's not the agencies' fault) is accurate and some inaccurate. I once went through a whole series of interviews to be offered a contract with a salary so much lower than the one posted on Search I was shocked. I turned them down for that reason, and told them so. There was some squirming but no explanation. I figured if they lied about the salary on Search, who knows what else they'd lie about.
My current position pays me more than they have posted on Search. That was a surprise. Other positions have been spot on.
The best is when a school shares their salary scale with you, either during the interviews, or, better yet, on their website.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
I've always thought that if a school (or business for that matter) has a salary scale and it's a good one, why wouldn't they want to publish it on their website? Wouldn't they want potential applicants to know what they how great their salaries are? When I see "salary commensurate with experience" I tend to assume that the pay must not be anything worth bragging about. Or worse yet, sometimes they just say "competitive salary." If it's so competitive, wouldn't you want us to know what it is?!
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
Perhaps they don't want to advertise to their parent community what the pay package looks like. You can't share with one without sharing with the other, and how many of us really want our students able to look up what our salary is? In international schools, it's not uncommon to have students whose pocket money is higher than a teachers' salary. I'm not sure that giving them the exact figure would be helpful to school climate.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
And parent groups often get pretty stroppy about tuition. If your school pays a "great" wage, good for them, but publishing it is ammunition for parents who want to cut costs. If the parents don't understand how education works, they may well push for lower salaries. After all, the school down the road doesn't pay so much, so why should we?
(Don't bother telling me why we should. I know why we should. My point is that parents often don't know why we should. I try to avoid giving people a stick to beat me with.)
(Don't bother telling me why we should. I know why we should. My point is that parents often don't know why we should. I try to avoid giving people a stick to beat me with.)
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
My rule is that I'll search for salary information on:
1) The school website
2) Google 'xxxxx school salary'
3) Look on ISR for recent reviews that include a salary range.
If after doing those three things I can't find it, then I'm going to assume it's absolutely rubbish and will not bother applying. The type of school which puts together long lists of 'stuff we expect the teacher to have', but yet can't even devote one page of their website to the most important aspect of the job for the teacher is probably a terrible school that believes the work relationship should be completely one sided to begin with.
Same deal with jobs listed by agents too. 'Competitive salary' is code for 'we'll try to low ball you' and I won't be applying there either.
Exceptions would be made if the school is a known high payer (I.e if I can't find a salary scale for Aramco it wouldn't put me off applying) but my CV is nowhere near competitive for those jobs right now.
1) The school website
2) Google 'xxxxx school salary'
3) Look on ISR for recent reviews that include a salary range.
If after doing those three things I can't find it, then I'm going to assume it's absolutely rubbish and will not bother applying. The type of school which puts together long lists of 'stuff we expect the teacher to have', but yet can't even devote one page of their website to the most important aspect of the job for the teacher is probably a terrible school that believes the work relationship should be completely one sided to begin with.
Same deal with jobs listed by agents too. 'Competitive salary' is code for 'we'll try to low ball you' and I won't be applying there either.
Exceptions would be made if the school is a known high payer (I.e if I can't find a salary scale for Aramco it wouldn't put me off applying) but my CV is nowhere near competitive for those jobs right now.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
I've been doing this in 5 international schools so far, and none published a salary scale.
1 was a low payer, 2 medium, and 2 high.
3 had a clear salary scale available at the time of offer. 2 did not.
3 I consider Tier 2, and 2 Tier 1 (not that anyone agrees on what those terms mean).
And it's not as easy as you'd think to predict how those 3 data points line up for those 5 schools. Be careful of making predictions on limited data. You might exclude some pretty good opportunities.
1 was a low payer, 2 medium, and 2 high.
3 had a clear salary scale available at the time of offer. 2 did not.
3 I consider Tier 2, and 2 Tier 1 (not that anyone agrees on what those terms mean).
And it's not as easy as you'd think to predict how those 3 data points line up for those 5 schools. Be careful of making predictions on limited data. You might exclude some pretty good opportunities.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
I do not believe there's any good reason why a school should not have its salary scale published. Who really cares if some random can find out what you're earning by checking the website? Why the hell do people get defensive about salaries anyway? Do you all like lying to other expats down at the pub you're on 100k or something? I couldn't care less if everyone knew what I was earning, and I've had some fairly low paying ESL jobs in my time.
Infact, the best employer I've had used to have a sheet with everyone's gross salary on, then their salary after all taxes. They pinned this sheet to the staff noticeboard every month. By far the best way of doing things - there was complete transparency when it came to pay.
It's fairly obvious to all concerned that a teacher won't make as much as a corporate banker who sends his kids to your school. The lack of a salary scale posted on the website does not hide this obvious fact.
When a school goes to great lengths to explain every single aspect about the school EXCEPT the salary, it shows a total lack of respect to their future employees. And it just serves to waste everyones time if interviews are had then the salary is far below what the teacher would consider acceptable.
80% of the time I find you can get some sort of range by searching around online anyway. Many ISR reports contain salary ranges, so you just add x amount on for inflation, depending on the report date. Same deal if you use Google and find an old salary scale. The 20% of the time there's nothing...well, if they can't be bothered to let me know the most important aspect of the job, then I can't be bothered to fill in the application form.
Infact, the best employer I've had used to have a sheet with everyone's gross salary on, then their salary after all taxes. They pinned this sheet to the staff noticeboard every month. By far the best way of doing things - there was complete transparency when it came to pay.
It's fairly obvious to all concerned that a teacher won't make as much as a corporate banker who sends his kids to your school. The lack of a salary scale posted on the website does not hide this obvious fact.
When a school goes to great lengths to explain every single aspect about the school EXCEPT the salary, it shows a total lack of respect to their future employees. And it just serves to waste everyones time if interviews are had then the salary is far below what the teacher would consider acceptable.
80% of the time I find you can get some sort of range by searching around online anyway. Many ISR reports contain salary ranges, so you just add x amount on for inflation, depending on the report date. Same deal if you use Google and find an old salary scale. The 20% of the time there's nothing...well, if they can't be bothered to let me know the most important aspect of the job, then I can't be bothered to fill in the application form.
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helloiswill
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
@joe30
I agree completely with this post.
I agree completely with this post.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
@joe30
I hate to say these words, but me too. Admin can give lame excuses, because it ain't gonna make a difference to their quarter mil paycheck or so. To quote someone famous, 'the system is rigged, folks." Might be true in our case.
I hate to say these words, but me too. Admin can give lame excuses, because it ain't gonna make a difference to their quarter mil paycheck or so. To quote someone famous, 'the system is rigged, folks." Might be true in our case.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
I definitely see @sid's perspective on that one. I hadn't considered that the parent community having access to that info could lead to a lot of problems - both from the side of using it as an excuse to complain about why their tuition is too high and also from the side of superiority. Some parents (and students) at international schools probably feel they are above having to take orders from someone who only makes X dollars per year.
Re: Search Associates Recruitment Package Information
fine dude wrote:
> @joe30
> I hate to say these words, but me too. Admin can give lame excuses, because
> it ain't gonna make a difference to their quarter mil paycheck or so. To
> quote someone famous, 'the system is rigged, folks." Might be true in
> our case.
"Quarter mil paycheck"
I only wish!
> @joe30
> I hate to say these words, but me too. Admin can give lame excuses, because
> it ain't gonna make a difference to their quarter mil paycheck or so. To
> quote someone famous, 'the system is rigged, folks." Might be true in
> our case.
"Quarter mil paycheck"
I only wish!