Marc Fogel spent his career as an international educator, and he is currently serving a 14 year sentence of hard labor in a Russian prison for bringing in less than an ounce of medicinal marijuana. His friends and family are trying to get the attention of the US Department of State to have him declared wrongfully detained and to have him added to any potential prisoner swap. His case is very similar to Britany Griner's. Please help elevate awareness of his case by signing this petition:
https://www.change.org/p/free-marc-foge ... tm_term=cs
The petition has more info about his plight, and ways you can do more by reaching out to your representatives. Thank you!
International teacher Marc Fogel in Russian prison - please help!
Response
No, thats called a crime. The rest of the world is not the US. You are subject to the laws of the entering country not the laws of the US. Your medical marijuana is an illegal drug according to the Russian government. It doesnt matter how much it is, any amount more than zero is unlawful, and has serious penalties. He is being lawfully detained, he broke the law, he committed a crime, and ignorance of the law is no excuse. Hes not special, maybe those 14 years of hard labor will send the appropriate message that other countries dont want drugs in their country. Respect there laws or dont go.
Re: Response
PsyGuy wrote:
> No, thats called a crime. The rest of the world is not the US. You are
> subject to the laws of the entering country not the laws of the US. Your
> medical marijuana is an illegal drug according to the Russian government.
> It doesnt matter how much it is, any amount more than zero is unlawful, and
> has serious penalties. He is being lawfully detained, he broke the law, he
> committed a crime, and ignorance of the law is no excuse. Hes not special,
> maybe those 14 years of hard labor will send the appropriate message that
> other countries dont want drugs in their country. Respect there laws or
> dont go.
I bet you're fun at parties
> No, thats called a crime. The rest of the world is not the US. You are
> subject to the laws of the entering country not the laws of the US. Your
> medical marijuana is an illegal drug according to the Russian government.
> It doesnt matter how much it is, any amount more than zero is unlawful, and
> has serious penalties. He is being lawfully detained, he broke the law, he
> committed a crime, and ignorance of the law is no excuse. Hes not special,
> maybe those 14 years of hard labor will send the appropriate message that
> other countries dont want drugs in their country. Respect there laws or
> dont go.
I bet you're fun at parties
Re: International teacher Marc Fogel in Russian prison - please help!
Yes. While we all know the risks and dangers inherent in interpreting country's rules...it seems as if this teacher did understand the parameters. He didn't try to sneak something in. He was able to provide ample medical support for his need. It wasn't his "first rodeo." We can be completely transparent...and a government can choose their own reaction.
Reply
@mamava
No its not. Medical cannabis is not legal in Russia, its just cannabis, which is illegal. Having a letter from a US doctor or prescription for cannabis means absolutely nothing in Russia. Neither the US FDA, DEA, or the Arizona DH or any physician have any say or control over what is lawfully able to be brought into Russia. Cannabis is no different than a letter from a US doctor allowing you to bring in cocaine, heroine, etc.
Being transparent about your crimes only works for Drump.
No its not. Medical cannabis is not legal in Russia, its just cannabis, which is illegal. Having a letter from a US doctor or prescription for cannabis means absolutely nothing in Russia. Neither the US FDA, DEA, or the Arizona DH or any physician have any say or control over what is lawfully able to be brought into Russia. Cannabis is no different than a letter from a US doctor allowing you to bring in cocaine, heroine, etc.
Being transparent about your crimes only works for Drump.
Re: International teacher Marc Fogel in Russian prison - please help!
@PsyGuy
These two high profile arrests are suspiciously timed, are they not? Late Winter 2022, US citizens. Britteny Gilner pleaded guilty as she was advised they would show leniency? They did not. Strange. There are also alleged problems with the initial search and during questioning.
Yes, we must abide by host country rules, but politics and corruption are a different matter and if our schools and fellow ITs turn against us, then are we not cherry picking human rights abuses as an excuse to stay in our nice overseas gig.
These two high profile arrests are suspiciously timed, are they not? Late Winter 2022, US citizens. Britteny Gilner pleaded guilty as she was advised they would show leniency? They did not. Strange. There are also alleged problems with the initial search and during questioning.
Yes, we must abide by host country rules, but politics and corruption are a different matter and if our schools and fellow ITs turn against us, then are we not cherry picking human rights abuses as an excuse to stay in our nice overseas gig.
Reply
@CeeCee1
One persons suspicion is another persons coincidence.
US citizens tend to be the most arrogant and flagrant in violating drug laws. CANs position and support for Ukraine is no different than the US and CAN has even more relaxed regulation for the possession and use of cannabis. There arent any high profile CAN arrests in Russia.
Why would they show leniency to a drug peddler and user? Her defense was essentially, "I broke your drug laws numerous times in the past so you shouldnt punish me for continuing to break them".
What problems with the search and questioning? This isnt "Law and Order: Russia", if they find you have contraband on you or your possessions, you have contraband in your possession. This is one of the many reasons the US has such problems with drugs, they place too much emphasis on procedure and technicalities instead of facts. If there is an error in the search procedure its not a reason to get away with a crime, its cause for better training while the criminal rots in whatever hole they through them in.
What politics and corruption? According the Washington Post article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... ia-prison/
Fogel was trying to smuggle the drugs in. He hid them poorly in a contact lens case and in his socks. He did that because he knew what he was doing was an offense and the amount he was bringing in placed his actions above the administrative level offense into the serious criminal level offense. His medical need for the illegal drugs was pain but his choice in pain management therapy was that cannabis made him feel good. Thats every drug user ever. Theres no human rights abuse here, he did the crime, he knew it was a crime, and given his history at the IS he knew it was a serious crime, and now he has to do the time.
Cats land on their feet every time except one, the last one.
One persons suspicion is another persons coincidence.
US citizens tend to be the most arrogant and flagrant in violating drug laws. CANs position and support for Ukraine is no different than the US and CAN has even more relaxed regulation for the possession and use of cannabis. There arent any high profile CAN arrests in Russia.
Why would they show leniency to a drug peddler and user? Her defense was essentially, "I broke your drug laws numerous times in the past so you shouldnt punish me for continuing to break them".
What problems with the search and questioning? This isnt "Law and Order: Russia", if they find you have contraband on you or your possessions, you have contraband in your possession. This is one of the many reasons the US has such problems with drugs, they place too much emphasis on procedure and technicalities instead of facts. If there is an error in the search procedure its not a reason to get away with a crime, its cause for better training while the criminal rots in whatever hole they through them in.
What politics and corruption? According the Washington Post article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... ia-prison/
Fogel was trying to smuggle the drugs in. He hid them poorly in a contact lens case and in his socks. He did that because he knew what he was doing was an offense and the amount he was bringing in placed his actions above the administrative level offense into the serious criminal level offense. His medical need for the illegal drugs was pain but his choice in pain management therapy was that cannabis made him feel good. Thats every drug user ever. Theres no human rights abuse here, he did the crime, he knew it was a crime, and given his history at the IS he knew it was a serious crime, and now he has to do the time.
Cats land on their feet every time except one, the last one.
Re: International teacher Marc Fogel in Russian prison - please help!
Yeap, yeap and yeap, but with intent to sell to his students @PsyGuy. Baseless.
Reply
@CeeCee1
Its not baseless. He was found with 14 vape cartridges those cartridges hold either .5 or 1 gram each. Assuming the lesser amount thats 7g and over the 6g limit of an administrative offense, but he also brought in some cannabis buds, those were what he had in the contact lens case. Why the two forms? If it was just personal use why not bring in more vape cartridges? He was already over the limit of the administrative offense level, what would a couple more cartridges mean considering the cannabis bud was half an ounce. The reason is, you need a vape to use vape cartridges, someone without one would not be able to utilize them, they would need actual botanical marijuana, someone like a student.
You can argue thats speculation, and youre right but its no better than your speculation it was not meant for distribution to students.
Its not baseless. He was found with 14 vape cartridges those cartridges hold either .5 or 1 gram each. Assuming the lesser amount thats 7g and over the 6g limit of an administrative offense, but he also brought in some cannabis buds, those were what he had in the contact lens case. Why the two forms? If it was just personal use why not bring in more vape cartridges? He was already over the limit of the administrative offense level, what would a couple more cartridges mean considering the cannabis bud was half an ounce. The reason is, you need a vape to use vape cartridges, someone without one would not be able to utilize them, they would need actual botanical marijuana, someone like a student.
You can argue thats speculation, and youre right but its no better than your speculation it was not meant for distribution to students.
Re: International teacher Marc Fogel in Russian prison - please help!
I do believe suspicion of an alleged crime can lead to investigation, not a charge? I believe concrete evidence of dealing drugs to students needs to then be found. Speculation does not result in a prosecution.
Reply
@CeeCee1
Its not an alleged crime he was caught red handed trying to smuggle a criminal amount of illegal drugs into the country. Even if you dont want to believe the distribution angle, he was still attempting to smuggle illegal drugs into the country. He broke the law, full stop. Why should he get a pass because some portion of his multiple crimes dont meet your standard of proof. He still attempted to smuggle drugs into the country, thats a crime with a penalty. Why should he get to go home and ignore the penalty for his criminal actions? Everyone else has to follow the law and suffer the consequences when they dont, why doesnt he?
Its not an alleged crime he was caught red handed trying to smuggle a criminal amount of illegal drugs into the country. Even if you dont want to believe the distribution angle, he was still attempting to smuggle illegal drugs into the country. He broke the law, full stop. Why should he get a pass because some portion of his multiple crimes dont meet your standard of proof. He still attempted to smuggle drugs into the country, thats a crime with a penalty. Why should he get to go home and ignore the penalty for his criminal actions? Everyone else has to follow the law and suffer the consequences when they dont, why doesnt he?
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Re: International teacher Marc Fogel in Russian prison - please help!
@lhoiseth
If you want to reach more people, it's better to post it on forum 1: viewforum.php?f=1
This forum (forum 2) gets almost no traffic, so very few people will see this post.
It's a ridiculously long sentence. 14 years of hard labor at his age means it's likely he won't survive this.
Fogel has reported it was 17 grams, and anything between 6-100 grams is classified as a 'significant amount', the possession of which generally carries a much shorter jail sentence and, in some cases the punishment is reduced to a fine. The Russians of course claim it was over a 100 grams. Either way it wasn't smart, but either way he doesn't doesn't deserve 14 years of hard labor.
I hope his sentence will be severely shortened or commuted entirely. I happen to know a former colleague of his, and they spoke very highly of him as a teacher and as a human being.
If you want to reach more people, it's better to post it on forum 1: viewforum.php?f=1
This forum (forum 2) gets almost no traffic, so very few people will see this post.
It's a ridiculously long sentence. 14 years of hard labor at his age means it's likely he won't survive this.
Fogel has reported it was 17 grams, and anything between 6-100 grams is classified as a 'significant amount', the possession of which generally carries a much shorter jail sentence and, in some cases the punishment is reduced to a fine. The Russians of course claim it was over a 100 grams. Either way it wasn't smart, but either way he doesn't doesn't deserve 14 years of hard labor.
I hope his sentence will be severely shortened or commuted entirely. I happen to know a former colleague of his, and they spoke very highly of him as a teacher and as a human being.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @CeeCee1
>
> Its not an alleged crime he was caught red handed trying to smuggle a
> criminal amount of illegal drugs into the country. Even if you dont want to
> believe the distribution angle, he was still attempting to smuggle illegal
> drugs into the country. He broke the law, full stop. Why should he get a
> pass because some portion of his multiple crimes dont meet your standard of
> proof. He still attempted to smuggle drugs into the country, thats a crime
> with a penalty. Why should he get to go home and ignore the penalty for his
> criminal actions? Everyone else has to follow the law and suffer the
> consequences when they dont, why doesnt he?
I have never disputed that he was in possession of drugs. I dispute the claims he was intending to deal them to his students. I believe his sentence is ridiculously harsh and I DO speculate this could be political. I pray his sentence is reduced. And I pray that one day you can actually achieve some level of compassion for another person's plight.
> @CeeCee1
>
> Its not an alleged crime he was caught red handed trying to smuggle a
> criminal amount of illegal drugs into the country. Even if you dont want to
> believe the distribution angle, he was still attempting to smuggle illegal
> drugs into the country. He broke the law, full stop. Why should he get a
> pass because some portion of his multiple crimes dont meet your standard of
> proof. He still attempted to smuggle drugs into the country, thats a crime
> with a penalty. Why should he get to go home and ignore the penalty for his
> criminal actions? Everyone else has to follow the law and suffer the
> consequences when they dont, why doesnt he?
I have never disputed that he was in possession of drugs. I dispute the claims he was intending to deal them to his students. I believe his sentence is ridiculously harsh and I DO speculate this could be political. I pray his sentence is reduced. And I pray that one day you can actually achieve some level of compassion for another person's plight.