What would it take to lure you back to North America?
What would it take to lure you back to North America?
There are tens of thousands of outstanding North American teachers overseas, so I hypothetically ask you here…….from a professional standpoint, what would it take to lure you back to North America to teach? Or, if you are in North America at the moment and are considering going overseas, what would it take to keep you in North America? The more specific you are the more interesting it will be….. ie name a salary or a specific set of working conditions, new governmental initiative, etc
Decent class sizes. To me, that's one of the most important factors in making the move overseas. When I worked in NYC schools, I had 34 in each class (the union-set limit), and when I worked in NC, I had up to 36 and that's in a trailer out behind the school.
Now I have one class of 23 and the other 3 are all under 20. Makes a big difference.
Now I have one class of 23 and the other 3 are all under 20. Makes a big difference.
Back to North America!
As you can tell from my frequent postings, I am always willing to give my two cent’s (or less) worth…
I do not have a fraction of the paperwork that I labored under in the States.
In general, my supervisors have been much more supportive and accessible than those in the States.
While teaching in the U.S., I took a relatively inexpensive two-week vacation to Central America. I was still paying for it two years later. In the five years I have been overseas, I have been to twenty different countries on four continents.
I am surrounded by people who are curious about other people and cultures, rather than surrounded by the incurious or fearful…
No Child Left Behind was supposed to guarantee accountability from EVERYONE: teachers, administrators, parents, students. I am still waiting to see how the parents and students are being held accountable. I strongly dislike being lied to, and that is how I feel I was treated by the federal government on NCLB.
I can’t think of what would drag me back to the U.S. other than a massive cash infusion. I have another 120 reasons for not teaching in the U.S., but I would like to hear from others…
I do not have a fraction of the paperwork that I labored under in the States.
In general, my supervisors have been much more supportive and accessible than those in the States.
While teaching in the U.S., I took a relatively inexpensive two-week vacation to Central America. I was still paying for it two years later. In the five years I have been overseas, I have been to twenty different countries on four continents.
I am surrounded by people who are curious about other people and cultures, rather than surrounded by the incurious or fearful…
No Child Left Behind was supposed to guarantee accountability from EVERYONE: teachers, administrators, parents, students. I am still waiting to see how the parents and students are being held accountable. I strongly dislike being lied to, and that is how I feel I was treated by the federal government on NCLB.
I can’t think of what would drag me back to the U.S. other than a massive cash infusion. I have another 120 reasons for not teaching in the U.S., but I would like to hear from others…
Reasons
I now teach in the US, after having taught overseas. Here are my reasons for wanting to go back:
1. NCLB- emphasis on testing
2. Dynamic student population. Kids want to learn
3. Union choke hold on development. On a continuing basis I'm given the reason we can't progress as a teaching profession as 'union rules', or the union won't "allow it".
4. Being around different cultures.
5. Having my kids being around different cultures and ideas.
6. The bubble that some Americans live under. They don't care what's going on in the world. I love it when we see an Arab American woman with her head covered. At first my kids thought it was strange, but it generated a conversation. I'm tired of seeing the same things, the same people.
7. Getting away from the strip malls and AppleBees of the world. I'd rather have fantastic night eating at a roadside stall in Jakarta, smelling and hearing life around me- with the resulting gastric distress the rest of the week, than another dinner at the Olive Garden.
8. Travel. I live in midwestern US. A holiday around here for many middle income Americans is an overnight trip to Wisconsin (nothing against cheeseheads). In my two years in Singapore we'd spent time in 8 countries.
9. Being treated like a professional. I'll gladly teach and commit in a professional manner- as long as I'm compensated professionally. Not only that, but also given professional responsibilities.
1. NCLB- emphasis on testing
2. Dynamic student population. Kids want to learn
3. Union choke hold on development. On a continuing basis I'm given the reason we can't progress as a teaching profession as 'union rules', or the union won't "allow it".
4. Being around different cultures.
5. Having my kids being around different cultures and ideas.
6. The bubble that some Americans live under. They don't care what's going on in the world. I love it when we see an Arab American woman with her head covered. At first my kids thought it was strange, but it generated a conversation. I'm tired of seeing the same things, the same people.
7. Getting away from the strip malls and AppleBees of the world. I'd rather have fantastic night eating at a roadside stall in Jakarta, smelling and hearing life around me- with the resulting gastric distress the rest of the week, than another dinner at the Olive Garden.
8. Travel. I live in midwestern US. A holiday around here for many middle income Americans is an overnight trip to Wisconsin (nothing against cheeseheads). In my two years in Singapore we'd spent time in 8 countries.
9. Being treated like a professional. I'll gladly teach and commit in a professional manner- as long as I'm compensated professionally. Not only that, but also given professional responsibilities.
Let me give you the other side of the coin:
My wife and I returned to the U.S. (New England) in July 2008 after 6 years teaching high school math at an international school in China. I am now teaching math at a public high school in Massachusetts. While discipline and motivation issues arise more frequently than overseas, class sizes are a bit larger (INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS ALSO ARE INCREASING CLASS SIZES EVERY YEAR), and it takes more energy to get your students interested in the concepts, these are not more than any REAL TEACHER can handle. My belief is that unless you have spent some time in the trenches of public schools you are not a real teacher - sorry to all of the private school types.
I will save over $20,000 this year (which is more than a lot of the international school crowd will save or even earn), live in a beautiful home in a beautiful part of the country with trees, forests, ocean, and CLEAN AIR AND STREETS, and while I won't travel to Laos, Indonesia, Cambodia, or any of the other wonderful and exciting countries I saw while working overseas, I could afford to during the summer. Instead I will explore the greatest country on earth - the United States of America - and enjoy experiences that are every bit as exciting and stimulating as those my wife and I experienced while in Asia.
So my point is life is what you make it. REAL TEACHERS can teach and thrive anywhere. So if you choose to work overseas, Great. Just stop tearing down the American school system because we all know that the problems of the international school circuit are just as numerous as those of her U.S. counterpart.
Note: People who have not taught for at least 5 years in the public school system and have no basis for comparison need not reply or comment. Thank you.
My wife and I returned to the U.S. (New England) in July 2008 after 6 years teaching high school math at an international school in China. I am now teaching math at a public high school in Massachusetts. While discipline and motivation issues arise more frequently than overseas, class sizes are a bit larger (INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS ALSO ARE INCREASING CLASS SIZES EVERY YEAR), and it takes more energy to get your students interested in the concepts, these are not more than any REAL TEACHER can handle. My belief is that unless you have spent some time in the trenches of public schools you are not a real teacher - sorry to all of the private school types.
I will save over $20,000 this year (which is more than a lot of the international school crowd will save or even earn), live in a beautiful home in a beautiful part of the country with trees, forests, ocean, and CLEAN AIR AND STREETS, and while I won't travel to Laos, Indonesia, Cambodia, or any of the other wonderful and exciting countries I saw while working overseas, I could afford to during the summer. Instead I will explore the greatest country on earth - the United States of America - and enjoy experiences that are every bit as exciting and stimulating as those my wife and I experienced while in Asia.
So my point is life is what you make it. REAL TEACHERS can teach and thrive anywhere. So if you choose to work overseas, Great. Just stop tearing down the American school system because we all know that the problems of the international school circuit are just as numerous as those of her U.S. counterpart.
Note: People who have not taught for at least 5 years in the public school system and have no basis for comparison need not reply or comment. Thank you.
teaching in the US
Having gone back and forth several times, we've found the following:
Teaching overseas has offered (usually, not always) smaller class sizes, fewer management issues (not really behavior, more dealing with kids dealing with their intense social issues at home), more travel,more ethnic diversity, more disposable income, more time with our own children.
Teaching in the U.S. has offered more resources (usually, not always, many public schools have INCREDIBLE resources), more economic diversity, more security in terms of not being at the whim of some administrator with an ego and no legal boundaries, more contact with extended family, and more retirement and heath coverage.
As we age, we find that the latter matters more than the former.
Teaching overseas has offered (usually, not always) smaller class sizes, fewer management issues (not really behavior, more dealing with kids dealing with their intense social issues at home), more travel,more ethnic diversity, more disposable income, more time with our own children.
Teaching in the U.S. has offered more resources (usually, not always, many public schools have INCREDIBLE resources), more economic diversity, more security in terms of not being at the whim of some administrator with an ego and no legal boundaries, more contact with extended family, and more retirement and heath coverage.
As we age, we find that the latter matters more than the former.
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doublejointeddonkey
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:12 am
As Senator mentioned you can save a lot in North America...but I believe its only because I went overseas first and used my savings to pay down my mortgage (only $413 a month). My wife and I can save $40,000 and do one trip during the winter in Mexico or the Carib and spend the summer travel around here. I supposedly don't have to worry about my retirement but my defined benefits pension is not able to afford all the promises that it made to the babyboomers... being in my mid 30s I will pay the price for their 55yr old retirement package.
I have worked my way through the union and put in my time and now teach some courses that are considered a specialty area so some of my class sizes are between 12 and 26...while others are capped at 30. which wouldn't happen for an English, Math or History teacher. AS for the union you are extremely well protected...I've seen teachers tell admin to F#k off, slam doors in peoples faces...you can literally do almost anything without being fired...not that I need that kind of protection so its quite useless to the average teacher.
But after seven years my wife and I have given up everything we have earned in our union here and decided to work overseas...will I regret it? As we all know it depends on why I'm leaving.
And it can't be for the money, better admin, better students...
it has to be for the lifestyle or sense of adventure...its the one major difference that every overseas package offers even at the worst profit schools...well maybe not in Kuwait ;)
And if overseas life has lost that sense of adventure and you start thinking about the how good the admin, students and pay is for every post that is available...then you might want try back home...where ever that may be because eventually you will work your way up to that job you are striving for. It just takes more time than jumping into the international circuit and once you have it no one can take it away...
I have worked my way through the union and put in my time and now teach some courses that are considered a specialty area so some of my class sizes are between 12 and 26...while others are capped at 30. which wouldn't happen for an English, Math or History teacher. AS for the union you are extremely well protected...I've seen teachers tell admin to F#k off, slam doors in peoples faces...you can literally do almost anything without being fired...not that I need that kind of protection so its quite useless to the average teacher.
But after seven years my wife and I have given up everything we have earned in our union here and decided to work overseas...will I regret it? As we all know it depends on why I'm leaving.
And it can't be for the money, better admin, better students...
it has to be for the lifestyle or sense of adventure...its the one major difference that every overseas package offers even at the worst profit schools...well maybe not in Kuwait ;)
And if overseas life has lost that sense of adventure and you start thinking about the how good the admin, students and pay is for every post that is available...then you might want try back home...where ever that may be because eventually you will work your way up to that job you are striving for. It just takes more time than jumping into the international circuit and once you have it no one can take it away...
Wow, senator. Were you trying to piss people off? I can definitely say that my time in an inner city private school was in many ways much more challenging than my fellow teachers had it out in the burbs, particularly as it pertains to discipline, motivation, available resources, academic support staff, facilities, etc.
I'm in my first year of teaching overseas, after 22 years in the U.S. I had a good ride for most of that time, but after NCLB was established, I felt insulted, degraded, and disrespected for my efforts. Education in the U.S. won't change until American society changes. Test scores do not make an education. I'm happy as a clam here and feel like I'm truly teaching again. I have flexibility, professional autonomy, great kids--no, they're not perfect. We don't have all the resources I got used to in the U.S. But I'm flexible and creative and don't stop to whine about it. We have two 30 minute recesses a day; for the four days I don't have duty, I take a coffee break in the morning. And then I take a rather leisurely lunch in the afternoon. Some days I have two planning periods. I rarely have to take work home. I feel respected and valued here.
I'll never teach in the U.S. again.
I'll never teach in the U.S. again.
I have to agree with most of the posts - once you teach overseas, it's hard to go back home. While I enjoy my visits back to the States, there is so much to do and see where I teach. I also feel like teachers get more respect overseas as we are not made out to be villains when students take state mandated tests.
We came home for the clean air and parks for our children, so we have that now.......and we are fortunate in that our district pays us very well, yet we still have pangs for going back overseas. Insights from your side have given us good perspective while we consider our long range family plan. Thanks so much.
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E.B. White
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:41 am
- Location: International School, South America
US vs overseas
We are currently at a school which is the educational equivalent of a used car lot. It is disillusioning, disappointing, and embarrassing. We are weighing the possibility of staying, going to another international school, or returning to the US. Bigger factor than even the damage to our careers and sense of values is a child with college looming on the horizon. A majority of his core teachers have no classroom management and/or no certification and/or no expertise in their subject area. Our dinner table conversation includes tales of disciplinary actions, including daily suspensions. Our younger child is in a class of 27. Standards, ethics, and again - values, seem to matter little. Apathy and cynicism rule. We want to continue this journey abroad but are really caught in a bind. And, with the economy what it is, it is more than a little scary.