Questions about the International School of Manila

[Scott]

Hi All,

I'm considering a job at ISM in Manila and something just doesn't add up. Here we are in Asia, where large international schools in capitols tend to pay well- I'm talking about schools like ISKL in Malaysia, JIS in Indonesia, SIS in Singapore, ASJ in Japan, TAS in Taiwan, etc. etc.

So why would an established, large international school located in an Asian capital city low-ball teachers by offering such mediocre salaries? I would literally start USD $13-14,000 less than JIS. I've been to both cities and the cost of living seems roughly the same.

Does ISM not care at all about attracting the best teachers? I can't imagine that the expatriate population in Manila is much less than a place like Jakarta. Could the tuition charged be quite a bit less? Maybe ISM has some other types of benefits to compensate for the very mediocre salary? It just seems strange.

I understand that money isn't everything, but it is always a consideration. I'd appreciate some info. from current and former ISM educators.

[markholmes]

I wondered about that too. I had a payscale for last year that seemed quite low, yet I have seen comments refering to a great package and a great school, so am somewhat baffled by it.

[maxsaidno]

When reading posts, keep in mind that for some ISM might be a big step up from where he or she was last posted. It might seem small compared to the other Asian big schools, but it could be larger if someone was coming from a place such as South America.

Also keep in mind that the administration might have asked "cheerleaders" on staff to post positive comments about the school. I'd be more concerned about turnover rate vs. money.

[Scott]

But what other large, Asian school in a capitol city has such poor salaries? Here is the the URL for their salary scale-

http://www.ismanila.org/_Rainbow/images ... e08_09.pdf

[ichiro]

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[Traveller1]

I'm at a school in Southern China, the salary is about 36000, with no airfare or medical cover for spouse. We're saving more than my whole salary in a couple of other places (I have a non-teaching spouse). They do offer a gratuity at the end of every 2 year contract, 11% and then 20%.

Many Far Eastern cities such as Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, and Singapore are prohibitively expensive, so I would have to earn double my salary here to save what I'm saving now. I can't speak for Jakarta, Bangkok or KL, although I believe those places aren't too expensive. However the range of salaries in each of the cities you mention will also differ significantly. You need to compare ISM with other schools in Manilla and the Philippines rather than schools in other countries.

Do you have salary info on Phnom Penh, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh, or Vientiane?

[markholmes]

Phenm Penh and Vientiane are about US$25,000 a year I believe.

[Overhere]

I made more than that at VIS 8 years ago, but the best thing about Vientiane is the low cost of living (I should qualify that and say 8 years ago the best thing was..). My family of 5 easily save 3/4 of a salary and we traveled extensively. I was there again for a short visit last year and while it was a bit more expensive it wasn't over the top.

[markholmes]

I got that off Tieonline last year. I believe $25,500.

[Scott]

[quote]You need to compare ISM with other schools in Manilla and the Philippines rather than schools in other countries. [/quote]

I don't agree with this statement at all. I believe it is quite reasonable to compare schools within a specific geographic region. In my case and in the cases of most international teachers whom I've been exposed, the usual scenario is that one is interested in working somewhere in Asia. If you happen to be an experienced international educator with skills that are in demand, you'll have the 'top dog' schools going after you. And from what I can tell so far, ISM can't compete for those international educators who are sought after and have options.

By the way, most Administrators from low-paying schools will say that you shouldn't compare their school with schools from other countries because of the cost of living, however, I only buy this if you are working in countries like Honduras, Colombia, Croatia, Cambodia, etc. where there aren't an abundance of well-paid expatriates. But for a capital Asian city with a sizeable, well-paid expatriate population, the salaries at ISM should be much higher.

I'd love to know how the actual Administrators and/or board members at ISM justify their poor salary schedule, BESIDES using the usual rhetoric of 'well, we're the highest paying school in the Philippines'. My answer to that is 'So what? Tell me why I should work at your school over Jakarta, Singapore, Taipei, KL, Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo, etc. which are great schools, with much better packages and I can save more money?' I mean, the city of Manila in itself certainly isn't a selling point...

[interteach]

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[mobydick]

No, it's not the top paying school in the country - the British School of Manila pays tons more and is one of the best payers in South East Asia. Solution - don't apply and don't go if money's the be all and end all. JIS is probably the best payer in terms of cost of living and saving potential in the region. The best Singapore schools pay very well but it is relatively much more expensive to live there. On the plus side, Manila is very very cheap for most things, the school is good and incredibly well resourced and does in fact pay very well when you add up all the benefits, cost of living, quality of life and saving potential.

[GHK]

I think it's ludicrous to criticize schools and asking them to "justify" why they don't pay any more... As it has been said, a school is dependent on its ability to raise money which is mostly through tuition to pay salaries.

I think most teachers would agree that they didn't get into this line of work to become rich and I generally find insulting to hear that if you pay less, you get inferior teachers. I've been in a school that paid close to 100K US and I've been in a schools that paid a quarter of that and frankly the teachers were not any better or more professionals at the higher paying schools. As a matter of fact, it can be a detriment when the pay is high because you get "dead wood" that won't leave...

My comment to teachers that are not happy with the pay is to go somewhere else and stop whining. A school isn't for teachers to make money, it's to educate students and that should always be the priority. Many of the top schools function as charitable organizations so whatever profit they make ends up back into the school as it should be.

[mobydick]

Many of us have worked at big payers and small payers and yes you are right to say we shouldn't judge them on this basis. But this doesn't answer why ISM pays so little when it could pay much more. It will always recruit good teachers as much as the big payers do but it could pay more if it could be bothered which perhaps is the point. The good teacher that is not thinking about money will go but the one who is a good teacher with a money need will not and that is the rub for some and the school in question. Good school, good benefits, good money for Manila but bad compared to the rest in the region. Mystifying indeed why it pays so low but a good gig all the same.

[GHK]

I can't give specific reasons for their pay scale nor do I think they need to explain themselves either. No one has commented on the tuition costs of comparative school in the region which is obviously a key point. There are many other factors involved in other to make a fair comparison, First of all class size/aides provided. Let's say a school decides to cap their class size at 28 and the other at 22. That's a significant difference in terms of revenue. Would you accept a salary that's 15% lower for smaller class size? Same goes for teaching minutes. 1200 minutes per week is close to the norm, maybe they offer 1000 minutes... What are the services offered to students? Guidance counseling, college counseling, school psychologist, nurse, ESL, full time AD, large course selection with lower class sizes at the HS etc... Ancillary staff(cleaning, transportation, technicians, maintenance). Past and present capital expenditures. Has the school purchased the land or was it donated? Are there expansion or refurbishing plans in the near future? If the school is managed responsibly, they should have and maintain a significant amount of funding in case of emergency. Lots of typhoons in the PI for example.

Other important point. If the retention of teacher is high and they are attracting candidates that they are satisfied with, why should they have higher salaries? If I am on a management board/admin, my first priority is the students and the institution. I would want to make sure the tuition remains where it's accessible for not just the very rich and basically have more student to choose from to maintain a base of high quality candidates. If you have big waiting lists, you can be choosy with who you admit and get rid of the ones that are not up to standards which makes a school that much more enjoyable to teach.