Are we top tier material?

[Thames Pirate]

Teaching couple, no dependents:

Me: 9 years, 6 in middle school English and Social Studies, 2 high school preIB and IB DP Literature (HL), 1 PYP maternity cover language
M.Ed.
Certified English, Social Studies, European Language
One international school contract
Raised bicultural/bilingual
US/European dual citizenship

Hubby: 8 years, 4 as entire social studies department (technically HOD) middle school through College Now, experience with MYP Humanities, DP Economics, DP History (including significant leadership on curriculum adoption after IB changes), IGCSE Business Studies.
M.Ed.
Certified all social studies fields and English
One international school contract
Has run chess club, MUN, business club, outdoor ed greenhouse
US citizen


We re targeting IB schools, and while we are mostly looking in Western Europe before fair, we are also open to a lot of other places provided the jobs are good and the places interesting to us.

What are our chances at a competitive fair?

[Taylor]

I think it's all about your personality when interviewing. You guys have lots of experience and being a couple helps, but neither of you seems to be in an "in-demand" area and so you might not be as heavily sought after as other couples. Still, impressive credentials. Good luck in your search!

[wrldtrvlr123]

I would say that you certainly have the experience and background that should have any school taking your candidacies seriously. I don't really see anything that would preclude even a top tier school agreeing to interivew you if they have openings in your fields.

No, you are not Math/Science specialists (and there might be a bit of potential overlap in your areas) but schools do needs other positions and you should be able to to at least get some quality interviews. After that, it's about selling yourselves as a good fit for that school, country etc.

Having an EU passport and some IB experience could also be an advantage and some good schools (in Switzerland in particular) might give you some serious consideration should they have your positions open this year.

Good luck!

[PsyGuy]

You would get into the elite tier room, but you wouldnt be the top picks in that room, youd find yourselves near the bottom of that pile.

1) You have minimal IE experience, and I assume most of it is in regulated/public DSs.

2) Your IB experience has less value at elite tier ISs. IB ISs largely bridge the 3rd and 1st tier. There are very few 1st tier IB ISs (such as Yokohama IS).

3) Maths/Science is higher need areas, but all ISs need literature and humanities ITs when they need them. Your issue is you need two of them since as a couple you essentially teach the same content areas, thats rare in an upper tier IS to find multiple vacancies in the same department/division.

4) Everyone does ASPs, unless an IS has a marketable need for a particular activity then they dont add practical utility to a candidates resume.

Below is the PsyGuy Applicant Scoring metric:

PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)

IT CLASSES:
1) INTERN ITs have a score around 0
2) ENTRY ITs have a score around 2
3) CAREER ITs have a score around 4
4) PROFESSIONAL ITs have a score around 6
5) MASTER ITs have a score around 8

The major issues you have working against you is your lack of IE experience and you teach the same subjects. What you have working in your favor is your EU citizenship.
You would be more successful and have fewer frustrations if you targeted 2nd tier IB ISs. Its better to be the big fish regardless of the pond. Get an EU passport/citizenship for your spouse and you can very easily wait until spring and find a number of strong ISs in WE especially Spain that will need to hire EU ITs, you should have a number of options.

[Thames Pirate]

Thanks. That's helpful.

Obviously we know that our subject area situation means that job availability is a limiting factor. His being DP Econ is the only subject that is slightly harder to fill (not counting my language, for which I have a certification but only 1 year of elementary experience and is not my preferred subject). However, we have been surprised at how many schools have two jobs in our areas. Obviously job availability matters, but that's true in every subject.

Our international experience was at a truly international school (30% local students and many of those dual nationals), but it was the second school in the city, not the first. Geography seemed to be one of the bigger factors in determining which one parents chose, but the other one is the one on the state department list. This was in Western Europe. My PYP and his IGCSE and IB experience were first obtained there. Our IB experience continued upon our return to the US at our current public IB school (which has offered IB for almost 30 years, so it is well established, but obviously mostly local students).

So if I am reading your scale correctly:
9 years=4.5 points
Masters=1 point
Cross certified=1 point (or half point since we are in the same subject area?)
IB experience=1 point
Logistical hire=1 point
Previous IS=0.5 point (since it was only a one year contract, though a renewal was offered)
Leadership=0 points
Extracurricular=0 points (unless they really need an equestrian team coach ;) )
Special Populations=0 points
Special skill set=0 points

Total--9 points + EU passeport

Hubby
8 years=4 points
Masters=1 point
Cross certified=1 point
Curriculum experience=1 point
Logistical hire=1 point
Previous IS=1 point
Leadership=0 points, though he was technically HOD when he was the entire department :)
Extracurricular=0 points (I'm not counting Model UN, though perhaps it might be a selling point)
Special populations=0 points
Special skills=0 points

Hubby total=9 points

Why do you say there are few 1st tier IB ISs? I realize competing against other IB DP experienced teachers puts us on par with most teachers competing for those jobs at best, but at least we are not disadvantaged.

These schools at the London Search fair have two openings that work for us (excluded anything we have ruled out for various reasons) that are also on the State Department list:

IS Brussels
Copenhagen IS
IS Düsseldorf
IS Hamburg
AIS Vilnius
IS Amsterdam
AS Warsaw
AIS Bucharest
IS Belgrade
Fukuoka IS
IS Ulaanbataar
IS Yangon
Bishop Mackenzie IS (Lilongwe)
Rabat AS
IS Tanganyika Dar Es Salaam


Several additional schools have jobs for which one of us is a GREAT fit and the other is a stretch fit or schools that have one job and at which one salary is easily plenty (such as UN IS Hanoi). There are some not on the state dept. list that are probably pretty good, too (Vienna IS, UK schools). I'm sure I missed a bunch, too--I didn't look at Turkey, for example, even though we would absolutely consider it. I also know job availability is subject to change and that a number of these schools are going to Bangkok and CIS fairs, so this list is just a starting point (I can look at Turkey then).

I realize the tier system is subjective, informal, and highly personal. I know that we would BOTH have to impress a recruiter--thankfully we both interview incredibly well (especially hubby, who can talk his way into just about anything).

So it sounds like we'll be reasonably competitive at the London fair, even if we aren't pick of the litter simply due to our overlapping fields and the fact that we didn't "pay our dues" at a lower tier school in southeast Asia. Is that correct?

Thanks for the responses--this is helpful. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

[EllieSLP]

Don't have much to add besides the fact that AS Warsaw has filled the majority of their positions. Go to their website to see what's still available. It seems like they filled the bulk over the Winter break. I wish you both all the best.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

The PsyGuy Application Scoring System is only really valid when compared or measured against a specific vacancy either real or hypothetical. Its not a checklist to compare your resume against but a scale to compare your resume against a vacancy.

1) I may have misread your description of your experience I interpreted it as ALL your experience was in IB. If you truly have experience in cross curriculum you certainly get the point.

2) I didnt give you any points for cross certified. Your post reflected "top tier ISs" so that was the model I compared your resumes against, and at Elite tier ISs having the same certification subject is a disadvantage for an IS that dual vacancies in the same subject would not be likely available. You could consider your spouse as a Lit/SS IT and you a primary IT but you have very minimal experience in primary for an elite tier IS.

3) I didnt give you any points for previous IS experience (its worth half a point at most). The issue is you cant demonstrate how you grew and improved in that second year. Your first year in an IS is a training/adaptation period, what you do in the second year with what you learn is critical. Many ITs/DTs leave, after realizing IE isnt what they thought it is, and returning to your HOR after one year doesnt demonstrate how you grew as a professional. From some POVs it could look like you were running home and didnt adapt well.

4) An equestrian program would be something marketable you would get the .5/pt for IF they had and needed an equestrian coach. I didnt assume such a need existed.

5) The EU passport is one of those "presence" factors that makes the score moot, either an IS needs ITs with EU citizenship for employment immigration purposes or it doesnt. It can make your entire resume beyond degree and certification irrelevant or the EU passport doesnt matter.

6) HOD of a department of one is not a "leadership role", you can not lead yourself. Its an IT with a slightly better title.

7) Unless an IS really needs a MUN coach its not marketable, though many ITs avoid such ASPs that require such a large time and resource commitment. MUN requires travel and possibly actually hosting an event. Thats a lot of work, that unless your getting a stipend for is a vastly greater time commitment than a club that requires showing up, and supervising students in the activity (such as Karaoke club where you just play some you tube music videos and students take turns singing along and dancing).

I state there are very few 1st tier IB ISs because its generally true. You find NC (National Curriculum) ISs in the lower tier ISs where the IS defines their program by the ITs they hire (hire British ITs and you have a British IS), there is no regulatory authority that an IS must be inspected/accredited and designations such as AS (American School) and BS (British School) or IS are not controlled, any organization can say they are an AS/BS/IS. AN NC curriculum is also cheap, the program documents and guides are generally public and available for the cost of downloading, and they provide "name recognition" to market to foreign parents who may not understand what they mean. Common Core for example is only a set of standards for language arts and maths it dictates nothing in the way of science or social studies/humanities or fine arts etc, yet many parents believe it is an American curriculum.
You then find NC programs at the top tier ISs where parents want an educational experience that mirrors what they would find in their HOR, there is a cultural egocentricity that what you know is superior to other forms of curriculum.
In the middle you find various other programs and IB as in the classical definition of an IB World School is generally clustered in 2nd tier ISs. IB is resource consuming and expensive, it takes some time to establish a stable organization before implementing IB, but it doesnt draw conventional parents and students from traditional educational curriculum.
What you find is top tier/Elite ISs that do have IB DIP but they just have DIP and its an optional school leaving pathway the ISs ethos is still very much that of an NC IS, in such cases DIP is a form of "honors" program, (and typically those ISs run closed/selective DIP programs, they arent open to any and all enrollment).

This is why the PsyGuy Scoring System works best when compared against a specific vacancy, and those Elite/Top tier ISs as you described can get a 1000 applications and senior leadership/recruiters cant interview a 1000 applicants they want a short, short list of 5. Its not about choosing the best candidate its reducing the applicant pool to a manageable number, and many ITs are very indistinct from one another, in such comparing your one year IE experience to 900+ other candidates who have 5+ years of career experience in IE, than yes you are at a disadvantage. Its not you its them, and there are a whole lot of "thems".

You claim the vacancies work for you but you dont know if they work for the IS, and you need some face time with a recruiter to make a pitch, you dont know if you will even get that opportunity. You also dont know if your a great fit to the recruiting/leadership team. What you see as compatibility and fit, may not be shared even partially by the IS, because you dont know what they want. Again, ITs are very indistinct from one another when it comes to the metrics on paper, but you have no idea what that HOS "really" wants for their faculty. The steel and the grindstone point is that you dont know what will impress a recruiter. They might want sycophants that arent going to threaten leaderships ego, and your approach is to come off confident, which is what they defiantly dont want.

Yes the tier system is subjective but there is a lot of consensus, its not so much personal as it is communal, and yes there are outliers and some artifact but their are definitive trends that are closely clustered. The tier structure is as formal as any other construct in IE used to describe less than concrete models.

With LON, my position is that if you restrict yourself to only elite tier ISs your going to have a lot of "close" offers, that will still amount to nothing. If you focus on 1st tier ISs I can see you getting one and your choice being to take it or have nothing. If you focus on 2nd tier ISs with your EU passport you are going to be feeling really good about yourselves as your sitting at a table with multiple offers to consider.

That metric changes if you include other options such as one of you being a trailing spouse (which isnt as significant an issue at elite tier ISs), etc.. Its not about paying your dues, its about personality characteristics and factors that are easily (and some would argue best) observed and demonstrated by moving through the IE tiers.

[Thames Pirate]

Individually, cross certified and varied experience is typically both within and outside a department, though, right?

I am certified for English all levels (and have DP experience)
Social studies/humanities most levels
Foreign language all levels (and have PYP experience)
I have taught social studies at the middle level (6-8) and English (6-12) plus the one year of elementary language

I would say that makes me relatively easy to schedule within any English department, with the possibility of some cross-departmental classes. You want to take the point away based on my spouse, but the reality is that if the points are for any given opening, I would stack up well against someone only certified in English, for example. So what precisely would qualify as getting the point if I could theoretically work in three departments (English, social studies, foreign language) and have several years' experience in two of those? Spouse is highly flexible within the social studies department with DP and MYP experience in two areas (plus some IGCSE)--6-12 social studies of any kind and he could teach it. He is certified for English as well, but no experience. I could see taking his point away.

I guess I wonder why you even have this category on here. Our experience was minimal movement between departments, both in our previous international placements and in talking with others (both internationally and domestically). However, if you won't give me a point for having experience in two and certification in three departments (regardless of what spouse teaches, I am being compared to the staff as a whole), what exactly do you expect?


We left our IS position because of the way the regional (not national) board viewed my teaching license, as at the time it did not include primary certification. While my home state's licensure program has changed and I am now licensed, I was not at the time; as my contract was only a one year maternity cover anyway and leaving did not involve breaking contracts, we decided to go home and get this fixed. The school did offer me further employment and to help me fight the licensure, but ultimately this was the easier way. I have great references. However, I know that this may not seem ideal when looking at the resume, so I can see not giving the point (which is why I said half point--you can see I am not unrealistic). We are aware that this is a weakness in our resume, but we don't believe it to be an insurmountable one--again, my contract was only one year to begin, and that is clear on my resume and CV.

You will notice I didn't give points for extracurriculars because, as you said, the points only apply if there is a need. I also didn't give hubby the point for the HOD job because, as I already said, he didn't lead anybody; he just had the paperwork! You can see that I am not unrealistic in those areas, though.

I am still confused as to why you say that 1st tier schools are not IB when they are. Virtually all of the ones I listed is an IB world school teaching the IB curriculum, either for all students or as an option in conjunction with AP or similar curriculums. I am not sure what types of schools you are considering that have a local curriculum where IB is not a major component. Can you give examples of what schools you are talking about?


Yes, the vacancies work for us--meaning these are vacancies for which we are qualified and which we have experience teaching. Obviously we don't know if they work for the ISs. We can only go off of what they post--both on websites and on recruiting sites. We do check both so we can know as much about the job as possible. Again, we also know that we need face time, which is why we are headed to London--so we can get that face time. We certainly don't want to work for all of these schools--we have interviewed with schools where, after a conversation, we know we don't want to work for a certain director (sorry, don't want to work for that sycophant you mentioned!) or that a school's processes won't work for us. Certainly finding a fit is critical for both parties, and that's true of any job, not just IT or even teaching. That's why interviews and job fairs exist, right?

We are not at all restricted to elite tier schools at all. I gave a few examples of the schools we are targeting, which may or may not be "elite" but are more likely 1st tier. We aren't limited to those, either; please don't misunderstand me on that. Those are simply schools we liked a lot who currently have two vacancies in our areas. We can make things work on one salary depending on location, we would be willing to take part time positions (again, depending on location/financial package), and of course we are looking at schools not on the sample list I put out. Of course, you may consider all of those schools 2nd tier anyway--I am really confused as to your definitions of tiers at this point.

Basically it sounds like we are realistic in our assessment of ourselves, we are moderately competitive for schools for which we have openings, and with appropriate legwork, professional and personable presentations, and a bit of luck, we can get something we will really like.

[senator]

Depending on the day and what a school needs, ANYONE can be top tier material.

I've known newbies with zero experience of any kind getting jobs at top schools while others with many years of international, IB, math/science experience shut out.

Just apply to any school you want to and see what happens.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

You can give yourself however many points you want, we dont distribute decoder rings when you reach Master class IT. I have no reason to believe you arent being realistic in your scoring.

Cross certified refers to a candidate being qualified to teach across two or more separate departments. Common pairs are Literature/Humanities, Science/Maths, Theater/Music, SEN/ESOL, etc. It is already assumed that a candidate can teach anything and everything within their content field at all secondary or all school. It would be assumed that a literature IT could teach lower secondary language arts in years 6 &7 and would also be able to teach British Authors, American Authors, or whatever else the ISs syllabus called for within their subject. A PHE IT would be expected to teach any and all sports including volleyball, football (soccer), badmitten, etc..

Again the scoring system works best when compared against an actual vacancy or in your case pair of vacancies. You can/will produce different scores for different vacancies. You would certainly get the point if say an IS you applying for had only once appropriate vacancy for you, and none for your spouse, than yes you would get the point. If you were applying for a primary FL vacancy (immersion) and your spouse a DP economics position with some mixed humanities courses in the work load. I wouldnt give you the point if you were essentially competing against each other for the same vacancy.

The category exists because many small and medium size ISs either need ITs that can teach multiple subjects, because they only have one class/form or they want ITs with flexibility in scheduling (your a literature IT, but the board wants a psychology class offered, it doesnt make fiscal sense to hire a dedicated psychology IT to teach one class so they shift some classes and students around and now you an teach this one class of psychology, since you are certified in social studies/humanities).

The NTSB has no authority to grant certification. NTSB certification is just a club, NTSB certification isnt valid without a corresponding state credential. I do sympathize though, those changes have left ITs in difficult positions before. A recruiter may have issues/problem with your choice to leave as opposed to resolving the conflict while continuing your employment for a second year. Your rational is perfectly reasonable, you just may never get an opportunity to actually discuss it with a recruiter. They are trying to reduce the applicant pool to a manageable level, in which trivial insignificant factors move a candidate to the reject group. You either have 2 years (or 5 years or whatever experience cut off) or you dont. It can be a cold and unforgiving process.

IB does not make an IS 1st tier, there are lots of 3rd tier IB ISs, you cant buy your way into the first tier by becoming an authorized IB IS. There are several models for defining the size of the tiers:

1) The Parent model, or "Prestige" model is a two tier system that can be described as the "wanted school" (upper tier) and the "waiting school". Parents have a school they want to get into (the wanted school), but for various reasons (no places, not enough pull, wrong organization sponsor, etc) can not get a place, so they then move to their next school down the continuum, until they secure a place for their child/children, this school is the "waiting school", they are waiting until the scenario changes and they either get their top wanted school or they move up the chain to a better school. This system is almost entirely based on the reputation/recognition/popularity/affiliation of the school. Westerners are going to aim for the appropriate embassy school, and then having to invest more and more research will identify additional schools as the need arises.
2)The Ownership, or "Point" model is based on determining standing and tier level based on a single "point" criterion, usually either compensation (they can buy their way into upper tiers, if they pay enough) or curriculum (were tier 1 is we have IB, etc). This allows school ownership to focus their resources on bettering a single criterion, allowing them to maximize their potential to whatever point they can afford. A lot of the "upper tier" schools in the ME employ this metric. This is often a result of ownership understanding business more than they understand education, but frustrated educators of all types when faced with numerous descriptors, many of which are simply unknown, can and do resort to this tier ranking metric to reduce frustration.
3) The Admin model or "Divisional" model (Ive also had is described at the Equality Continuum and Linear Equality models) divides the continuum of schools into equal divisions along a continuum. Rank order all the schools and institutions and if you want 3 tiers divide them into the bottom third, the middle third, and the upper third (if you want 4 tiers divide into quarters, and so on). There are two issues with this model. First, what admins love is that because the lower tier schools are so numerous, that any respectable "REAL" IS gets pushed into the first tier. Second, it artificially skews the top and the bottom, while compressing the middle.
4) The Educator, or "Curve" model (because it approximates the normal curve). takes those same schools on a normal curve and putts the upper 1stSD, lower 2ndSD and lower 3rdSD (Standard deviation, under the curve int his case) and classifies those as the 3rd tier, thats a lot of schools. It then places the upper 80-85 percentile too 95-98 percentile in the 2nd tier. With the remaining upper 5-2 percentile as the 1st tier (the elite school/s are a sup population of the first tier, and is just at or under the 100th percentile). What this means is that schools must truly demonstrate exceptional characteristics befitting the title of "International School", not simply a local, or municipal schools that are characterized as average or slightingly better than average compared to the surrounding market.

The first tier is very small and usually is only large enough to contain NC ISs. Buying into IB doesnt automatically move an IS into the 1st tier. There are some 1st tier ISs (IE.. Yokohama).

'World School" has recently taken on a new definition it now means any IB DS/IS regardless of level, traditionally "World School" designation refereed to an IB DS/IS that offered all three programs PYP, MYP, DIP. It is this classical definition that is being referenced when referring to an "IB IS", an IS thats primary curriculum from K-12 is IB. As discussed previously, there are many ISs that are NC ISs that offer DIP as an alternative school leaving option.

Fairs dont exist for the benefit of candidates at all, whether the - you want to use is the prize steer at a state fair or the newest "it" girl at a casting call, ITs are commodities, not the client/customer.

Less than FTE vacancies really only become viable options for LHs and as "created" appointments in support/instructional scenarios where the support position is part of the package for a teaching couple. They are more something to do for a trailing spouse. You arent going to find less than FTE vacancies recruited as OSH appointments (in general they dont qualify for a work visa) but they arent cost effective.

Your EU passport (get your spouse one) is really whats going to make the difference in what your goals are.

[Thames Pirate]

It's not about giving myself points; it's about understanding your rationale for how points are given or not so that we can realistically see how we compare and what ISs want.

So it sounds like hubby and I ARE cross certified as I can and have taught in all three of my licensure areas (sure, most of my experience and my preferred subject is English, but if I am applying for an English job and we are just looking at the potential for me to be scheduled for the odd class elsewhere, that's what you mean, right?). He is certified in English and Social Studies, so if he is applying to the Econ job and I am applying to the English job, we can both still be cross scheduled. That's what I was assuming you meant--that if the school needs a FL cover for period 1, hubby could cover one section of English that I might have otherwise had or if the school needs two sections of middle school social studies to be scheduled at the same time. By that metric we are in fact cross certified and schedulable. Again, I am assuming that we are applying for separate jobs, not competing with each other for the same one. If there is a single vacancy we don't typically both apply--the one of us more qualified for that particular job does. Therefore the point would still apply because I would be applying for an English job but also able to cover the odd section of social studies or FL while he would be applying for social studies jobs but still be able to cover the odd section of English.
Of course, we don't know how the rest of their staff is certified, which may impact our own "score" or desirability. If the FL teacher could also teach art, they could move that person over and have me cover the FL, for example, but if they need me to teach art and there is nobody else, my English/FL/SocSt is not so useful. However, I have no way of knowing that, and I am basing my scoring on the fact that I am primarily an English teacher applying for English jobs but could also cover social studies or FL--as anyone using the scoring system who doesn't know the staff would have to do. Obviously admin might see any or all of the system differently, but I imagine you wrote it as more of a guide. By that measure we are both cross certified. Thus my reasoning in giving the point.

I am not talking about NTSB certification, either. I was saying that the government would not recognize my teaching license. This means that the school, in order to maintain its national accreditation, would have to put another teacher in the room with me. The school did offer to try to find a way to make it work because they really wanted to keep me, but after speaking with the director and local authorities extensively, we came to the mutual decision that it was best for me to return to my home state and get the matter cleared up. I have done so. Since the initial contract was only a one year maternity cover, it wasn't a problem for the placement agencies or my CV either (where it is listed as such). Of course I realize I may never be given the opportunity to explain that and that it is a potential weakness, but I feel it's one that, if asked, I can easily discuss. That's one reason we felt strongly about going to a fair; it's much easier to discuss in a hotel elevator than as one of hundreds of emails. We recognize it means the difference between call back or reject on paper, though. That's why I gave the half point, but of course it could easily still be a zero.

I am also fully aware that IB does not make a first tier school. I am saying that our IB experience should still count because we do have it. Most top schools offer either the American, British, or IB curriculum (IS Bangkok, AS Paris, Frankfurt IS, SAS, WAB, ASIJ all do)--often some combination. I have American and IB experience. Hubby has American, IB, and IGCSE experience. Again, using your metric in a vacuum as a guide, I assigned the point for that. Obviously IB is less valuable than AP experience at some schools, though there is some value in IB simply for demonstrating that one can teach at the highest levels and within a structure assigned from outside the school. Isn't that why you have the point there? Most of the top schools we are targeting are either IB, American, or IB/some other or even specifically list a vacancy as IB. Again, thus the point. I wouldn't give it if the vacancy were specifically advertised as AP, obviously, as I have not taught AP, but on average the point is for having curriculum experience, so on average we both have it.

You say most elite and even first tier schools offer NC and not IB. Again, can you give examples? WAB uses IB. IS Bangkok uses IB. Yokohama uses IB. So does Frankfurt. Are those not elite schools? They may or may not use it in conjunction with the national curriculum (like IS Bangkok), but they DO use it. I know IB does not make a school elite or even first tier--having taught at what most would probably call a second tier IB school, I am familiar with the other side of the coin. I am just confused on why you say NC when in fact most use one of the three (American, though as you said, there is no true "American curriculum," British, or IB). I don't see international schools in Germany offering the German NC and Abitur, for example (except JFK, which is a very strange school that grew up out of Berlin's unique cold war history).

I believe you were making the point in order to rid me of the impression that IB=first tier, but I was never under that impression.

I also know that half time positions are not typically advertised as such, but they ARE advertised--sometimes only on the school's websites as they are looking for LHs, sometimes on Search because someone might be cross certified (see above) and they want to increase the quality of the applicant pool for the more specified position, etc. I am also fully aware that often one position is created or adapted to accommodate a licensed spouse--however, if there is an advertised vacancy for 0.5 Economics (often the harder of the social studies jobs to fill) with a FT English job, we could easily work well with that. Other times there is a full time History job but the part time unadvertised FL job could go to me, for example. My point was that we are willing to do either the trailing spouse (knowing something might open up) or the part time (in conjunction with a full time or if something less than FT opens up after the one partner has a job), not that we are finding or targeting a lot of part time positions.

I know fairs exist for the recruiters more than for the teachers, but that is no reason not to use one. The fairs DO allow teachers to make those vital face to face connections, and they offer a way of following up with the schools that is easy enough for the school to consent to an interview I might not be offered if it had to be scheduled via Skype. Yes, the fairs are a convenience for recruiters--but also for teachers if they are utilized properly. I don't know why you feel the need to get rude about it. I am not trying to get a prize for anything; I was simply asking how we stacked up. It sounds like our impressions were confirmed--we are not the pick of the litter, but we could be competitive on any given day depending on the schools and jobs involved and how well we present ourselves.

I know you are knowledgeable on this forum, PsyGuy, and I appreciate the feedback. There is no need to try to denigrate me with the "prize steer" and "decoder rings" comments; I am under no illusions about the fact that there are going to be applicants who (on paper at least) are a better fit for a job, more qualified, etc. I realize that there are reasons we might not get a call back or even an interview from a top school. However, it sounds like it is also not a complete waste of time to apply for the ones I listed or to apply separately for single jobs with the idea of a trailing spouse who will end up being hired.

It sounds like we could land those top jobs--as I said, we both interview incredibly well, and we know how to do our research in advance for cover letters, tailored CVs, and interviews. We know how to work an opportunity (I got that unadvertised maternity placement through an elevator conversation) and leverage our resources. However, we also know that we might not get the opportunity to work our magic, which is what we expected. It sounds from what you are saying like all of our homework has paid off and that we are realistic in our expectations and in our goals.

As for the citizenship--spouse needs years in country and to work on his language, but of course the plan is for him to get citizenship.

[wrldtrvlr123]

For a pirate you are showing a bit of a thin skin. My impression was that was actually PG doing light and breezy banter rather than being rude and denigrating (although he is certainly capable of both).