So I have been offered my first international teaching job. The contract is still yet to be negotiated and won't be finalised until Jan-Feb but at this stage they have said either 70,000 baht or 80,000 baht. Sadly, there is no housing allowance or really any other benefits. It's a bit of a weird situation. I got the job through a friend put me on to an admin who works there who was very keen on the recommendation my friend gave me. This admin says that I should be able to get 80,000baht. Being Australian, all teachers wages are government/union mandated so I have never had to negotiate a contract before.
Does anyone have any tips for negotiating pay? I have a masters degree from one of the better universities in Australia and three years teaching experience. No international teaching experience.
I was thinking of trying for 90,000 baht a month plus a yearly plane ticket home/them covering my ticket there (happy to fly a cheap airline). It seems likes I'm pretty sure housing allowance is out of the question. How do you go about negotiating a salary? Any tips? They did seem very keen to have me and pretty much offered me the job during the skype interview.
LIVING IN BANGKOK.
Some more general questions.
I was thinking of moving to Bangkok a month before starting, just so I can get settled in and enjoy myself. I have been to Bangkok a few times before so I am reasonably familiar with the city.
1. How does one go about finding an apartment? The websites for apartments in Bangkok seem to be pretty useless. I'd be wanting a one bedroom fully furnished apartment. Doesn't need a pool or anything like that. Just decent internet and to be secure. I was thinking of paying around 15,000-20,000baht a month. The school isn't in the city center and is near Bang Khen (sort of near Chutachuk market and Don Muang airport). Would it be difficult to find an apartment for that price around there? Are there any good websites for finding apartments.
2. I'd try my best to be within walking distance to the school. However, how do people cope with Bangkok traffic on a day to day basis? The school isn't near the sky train or BTS. Should I just go with a motorcycle taxi each day?
3. Is 70,000-80,000 baht a decent wage to live off? I'm happy to eat thai food most days, street food included. I wouldn't mind going out for some drinks over the weekend. I'd also like to join a gym/ do muay thai also. Maybe travel to nearby countries during the holidays/ do some weekend trips around Thailand.
4. What are the holiday periods for international schools? Is there a website that lists all the Thai national holidays in English?
5. I know one family in Bangkok (expats) but I want to make more friends when I am there. How do you go about making friends in a foreign country as an expat? I'm 30 and male if that helps.
Living in Bangkok/negotiating pay
Response
Just so you realize you dont have a contract until you have a contract, the IS is waiting until the end of peak fair recruiting before hiring you. Promises are talk, and talk is fluff, only a contract matters.
You are an Entry class IT, your Uni likely doesnt have any prestige or elite status. The bottom of the IT third tier is about BT60K, BT90K is about the top of the third tier. So 70K/80K is the middle of the third tier. Second, your not an OSH, if its just salary your a local hire. Thats why the recruiter was eager to hire you, youre cheap and they have no risk.
This could be a really long post on negotiating a salary. You will find yourself less successful if you just dictate a salary, the better strategy is to identify the value you bring and then suggest that each of those pieces of value is worth a step/partial step/multiple steps on the ISs salary scale, but this ISs likely has a closed salary scale (meaning its unpublished), recruiters can just offer you what they think you are worth or what they can fill the vacancy for.
In these scenarios you cant really negotiate benefits, your essentially limited to coin, ISs are very reluctant to create structures for benefits like flight tickets, and even if they were it would be far more in their interest to offer you a reimbursable allowance. They want to make sure you are going to actually make the trip, and that your going to stay. Yearly flights are becoming are much less common at lower tier ISs, typically its begging and end of contract, or just arrival flights or no flights. If you want flight tickets, ask for/require a flight allowance of whatever you think you can do, and if they say yes be prepared that they will likely insist on reimbursing you at the end of your contract or after the first year or some other protracted time period (much like a bonus benefit). The other option you can consider is negotiating your salary to budget for airfare over the course of a year, if your flight is AUS$1000 one way thats about BT3K each month in increased salary, which also gives you a return flight after 2 years. You could ask for more but thats a BT6K/monthly benefit for an IS thats not offering anything.
The same is true for housing, except instead of a one time allowance its a monthly allowance which is just asking for a higher salary. BT20K will get you a nice flat, many ETs make on average BT30K, you could find an acceptable flat for closer to BT8K. The real problem, is that you are trying to create an OSH package for an IS that is very specifically considering you a LH. BT100K would be pushing it based on what they are offering, if you structure it as a housing and relocation benefit, but be prepared for them to walk away. I imagine their total compensation pool for this appointment is going to be BT90K with a LH contract, without any other benefits.
Thee are a large number of property agents in BKK, you can find their little shops with floor plans and properties taped to their office windows. Otherwise you can just Google Bangkok Apartments, there are a number of web portals with various search functions. I would also ask your ISs receptionist/support staff she likely has a friend who is a property agent and shell get a referral fee from if you rent from their property agent.
You usually arrange internet though your property owner or the property agent. With serviced apartments the internet cost is just marked up and included in the rental fee. There are three type of apartments in Thailand
1) Unfurnished which have walls and floors they are essentially empty, but include water heaters, A/C units, etc.
2) Semi Furnished which include kitchen appliances.
3) Furnished, which include basic furniture (bed/futon, sofa, etc).
4) Serviced which are move in ready with electronics, small appliances, etc.
You can find a nice apartment in that area in your budget (you can find one for less), at that price range and size. You dont have to live by your IS, and I recommend you live some ways away from your IS.
I tried not to watch traffic, I took a lot of metro/public transportation and taxis, its cheap to take a car hire. For independence you get a scooter like everyone else. If your living close to your IS a peddle bike would be a commuter option. I prefer living near a metro station.
BT80K is decent, there are ETs living off of less than half your making. You can spend a lot on a gym, depends on the facilities. You wont save anything though if you want to travel, and have a weekly night life especially with a Thai GF.
Their are 16 holiday days in Thailand but depending which calendar (the Thai academic calendar, or the traditional Fall/Spring IS calendar) you should get about 12 of them including teacher day, and PD days.
How do you make friends in BKK? Really, assuming your white and not a hunchback or have some deformity you will make a lot of friends at least stable acquaintances. You should have a GF within your first month. Thais can appear to be superficial from western perspectives, we misinterpret politeness for kindness, and with a language barrier locals will be cautious around you when it comes to friendship.
You are an Entry class IT, your Uni likely doesnt have any prestige or elite status. The bottom of the IT third tier is about BT60K, BT90K is about the top of the third tier. So 70K/80K is the middle of the third tier. Second, your not an OSH, if its just salary your a local hire. Thats why the recruiter was eager to hire you, youre cheap and they have no risk.
This could be a really long post on negotiating a salary. You will find yourself less successful if you just dictate a salary, the better strategy is to identify the value you bring and then suggest that each of those pieces of value is worth a step/partial step/multiple steps on the ISs salary scale, but this ISs likely has a closed salary scale (meaning its unpublished), recruiters can just offer you what they think you are worth or what they can fill the vacancy for.
In these scenarios you cant really negotiate benefits, your essentially limited to coin, ISs are very reluctant to create structures for benefits like flight tickets, and even if they were it would be far more in their interest to offer you a reimbursable allowance. They want to make sure you are going to actually make the trip, and that your going to stay. Yearly flights are becoming are much less common at lower tier ISs, typically its begging and end of contract, or just arrival flights or no flights. If you want flight tickets, ask for/require a flight allowance of whatever you think you can do, and if they say yes be prepared that they will likely insist on reimbursing you at the end of your contract or after the first year or some other protracted time period (much like a bonus benefit). The other option you can consider is negotiating your salary to budget for airfare over the course of a year, if your flight is AUS$1000 one way thats about BT3K each month in increased salary, which also gives you a return flight after 2 years. You could ask for more but thats a BT6K/monthly benefit for an IS thats not offering anything.
The same is true for housing, except instead of a one time allowance its a monthly allowance which is just asking for a higher salary. BT20K will get you a nice flat, many ETs make on average BT30K, you could find an acceptable flat for closer to BT8K. The real problem, is that you are trying to create an OSH package for an IS that is very specifically considering you a LH. BT100K would be pushing it based on what they are offering, if you structure it as a housing and relocation benefit, but be prepared for them to walk away. I imagine their total compensation pool for this appointment is going to be BT90K with a LH contract, without any other benefits.
Thee are a large number of property agents in BKK, you can find their little shops with floor plans and properties taped to their office windows. Otherwise you can just Google Bangkok Apartments, there are a number of web portals with various search functions. I would also ask your ISs receptionist/support staff she likely has a friend who is a property agent and shell get a referral fee from if you rent from their property agent.
You usually arrange internet though your property owner or the property agent. With serviced apartments the internet cost is just marked up and included in the rental fee. There are three type of apartments in Thailand
1) Unfurnished which have walls and floors they are essentially empty, but include water heaters, A/C units, etc.
2) Semi Furnished which include kitchen appliances.
3) Furnished, which include basic furniture (bed/futon, sofa, etc).
4) Serviced which are move in ready with electronics, small appliances, etc.
You can find a nice apartment in that area in your budget (you can find one for less), at that price range and size. You dont have to live by your IS, and I recommend you live some ways away from your IS.
I tried not to watch traffic, I took a lot of metro/public transportation and taxis, its cheap to take a car hire. For independence you get a scooter like everyone else. If your living close to your IS a peddle bike would be a commuter option. I prefer living near a metro station.
BT80K is decent, there are ETs living off of less than half your making. You can spend a lot on a gym, depends on the facilities. You wont save anything though if you want to travel, and have a weekly night life especially with a Thai GF.
Their are 16 holiday days in Thailand but depending which calendar (the Thai academic calendar, or the traditional Fall/Spring IS calendar) you should get about 12 of them including teacher day, and PD days.
How do you make friends in BKK? Really, assuming your white and not a hunchback or have some deformity you will make a lot of friends at least stable acquaintances. You should have a GF within your first month. Thais can appear to be superficial from western perspectives, we misinterpret politeness for kindness, and with a language barrier locals will be cautious around you when it comes to friendship.
Re: Living in Bangkok/negotiating pay
My last contract was in Thailand. Baht 90k is pretty mediocre for Bangkok, but as PsyGuy suggests it is livable.
Where I disagree with him is about renting through an agent. Unless you get desperate and can't find anything suitable, the best method for Thailand is simply identifying the building you want to live in and then dropping in and asking if they have units available. If they do, you can often inspect on the spot. Within a day you can see 4-5 apartments and sign on the dotted line for the one you prefer. This approach cuts out the middle man, saving you some $$$. The only time I went with an agent was when looking for a standalone house.
If it is your first international contract you could do worse. Don't expect to save much, just do it for the experience and trade up to something better in a few years.
Where I disagree with him is about renting through an agent. Unless you get desperate and can't find anything suitable, the best method for Thailand is simply identifying the building you want to live in and then dropping in and asking if they have units available. If they do, you can often inspect on the spot. Within a day you can see 4-5 apartments and sign on the dotted line for the one you prefer. This approach cuts out the middle man, saving you some $$$. The only time I went with an agent was when looking for a standalone house.
If it is your first international contract you could do worse. Don't expect to save much, just do it for the experience and trade up to something better in a few years.
Re: Living in Bangkok/negotiating pay
Is it 70k or 80k? There's a problem for a start. Make their mind up for them with your own arbitrary figure - they seem confused. Whatever it is will be minus tax.
Some good points made already but agree with 'Chadekni': it's better to choose an area and then research the place yourself - no need for an agent. If you need to check online before arriving look at Mr.Roomfinder Bangkok. Remember you'll need the equivalent of three months' rent to check in to most places. Easy to find accommo in the area and price range you're talking about.
Some good points made already but agree with 'Chadekni': it's better to choose an area and then research the place yourself - no need for an agent. If you need to check online before arriving look at Mr.Roomfinder Bangkok. Remember you'll need the equivalent of three months' rent to check in to most places. Easy to find accommo in the area and price range you're talking about.
Re: Living in Bangkok/negotiating pay
Just to give you a reference point, three years ago I was offered 110,000 THB per month with a 20,000 monthly housing allowance. This was pre-tax (15-20% taxes) and was at a low tier 1, high tier 2 school. I had at the time 10 years teaching overseas along with an MA. I thought it was an okay offer but ended up passing as I got something better. Hope that helps.