Children, teens overseas
Children, teens overseas
This subject is not a usual one for this forum, but I was wondering if other experienced overseas teachers have found certain schools/areas of the world better for their children than others. When my children were younger, each school offered new adventures and opportunities, but a recent change put my now teens in a situation where they are definitely the lower class of the school and aware of it. Do others in the Middle East, China, or Singapore find this to be true and if so, how does one deal with it? Our school board finds the high cost of compound living prohibitive for teachers, but our children are the only ones who don't live in compounds where they are free to walk around, bike, swim, etc. Our home seems like a prison to them, and they are reluctant to invite others over as there's "nothing to do" compared to the homes they visit where they can do all these recreational activities. While the school offers activities, they are limited in number and only the best make the cut, so what are others to do?
This is something my wife and I agonize about almost everyday. Are we doing the right thing? Are the kids fitting in? What will they do this weekend? Being a parent at home is hard enough but I think being one overseas offers special challenges for both parent and teen. We recently moved from a school that offered very little outside of the classroom to a new school that offers a great deal (which is one reason we are here)and we moved from a city where we lived on the outskirts without any other kids from school nearby to a house where we can walk to school and there are other teenagers nearby.
I'd have to say we are lucky. I am not sure its easy to "research" these type of issues before you go to a job fair or accept a particular job. I sympathise with your family and wish you the best of luck.
I'd have to say we are lucky. I am not sure its easy to "research" these type of issues before you go to a job fair or accept a particular job. I sympathise with your family and wish you the best of luck.
Re: Children, teens overseas
[quote="scribe"]Our home seems like a prison to them, and they are reluctant to invite others over as there's "nothing to do" compared to the homes they visit where they can do all these recreational activities. While the school offers activities, they are limited in number and only the best make the cut, so what are others to do?[/quote]
I spent most of my school years the son of two international school teachers on the circuit. I spent nearly 11 years at JIS, starting in the early 70's when it was a small school and ending with it being nearly 2500 or so students. Many of the students that swelled it's ranks came from oil companies where the kids lived in mansions.
You comment on the limited number of options, and the fact that those options are for those that 'made the cut' is 'odd'. At JIS, and then at SAS where I taught for two years, there were options for all. Maybe that is a benefit to being at a large school.
As a teenager I did notice that our house was smaller, we didn't have the beach side villa in Bali to run to, nor the driver to pick me up when we drank too much in Block M. We also didn't get to fly back home at Christmas- first class. While I did notice it, I don't remember it bothering me that much. There are advantages to being a teacher's kid anyway. I had no problem inviting kids over to my house knowing that they had a swimming pool, tennis court and Mercedes while I had a Honda motorcycle and small house.
However as a parent of small children now teaching in the States, that is not going to change that much. The disparity is going to exist.
I'd say you are at a school that is the exception in terms of offering co-curricular options to it's kids.
I spent most of my school years the son of two international school teachers on the circuit. I spent nearly 11 years at JIS, starting in the early 70's when it was a small school and ending with it being nearly 2500 or so students. Many of the students that swelled it's ranks came from oil companies where the kids lived in mansions.
You comment on the limited number of options, and the fact that those options are for those that 'made the cut' is 'odd'. At JIS, and then at SAS where I taught for two years, there were options for all. Maybe that is a benefit to being at a large school.
As a teenager I did notice that our house was smaller, we didn't have the beach side villa in Bali to run to, nor the driver to pick me up when we drank too much in Block M. We also didn't get to fly back home at Christmas- first class. While I did notice it, I don't remember it bothering me that much. There are advantages to being a teacher's kid anyway. I had no problem inviting kids over to my house knowing that they had a swimming pool, tennis court and Mercedes while I had a Honda motorcycle and small house.
However as a parent of small children now teaching in the States, that is not going to change that much. The disparity is going to exist.
I'd say you are at a school that is the exception in terms of offering co-curricular options to it's kids.
-
Bethers
TCK studies
Third culture kids (TCK's) are not a new phenomenon. Dr. Ruth Useem out of the U of Michigan has done much of the initial study.
TCK studies have also originated in Japan where returning Japanese children are at times ostracized both socially and at work.
Although many of the studies generalize on the topics of careers, marriage and social interaction, I have found much of it relevant. Personally I've found my inclination to live and learn abroad to be spot-on. I'm married to someone who grew up in the States. While she has traveled with me to teach overseas, her preference is to stay in the US. This has put strains on our marriage at times and is a hurdle that must be dealt with.
As a parent of young children I consider living overseas as part of their education. My daughter is now in 3rd grade, the age where I first moved to Indonesia. I'd like to get back in the next few years so she can enjoy some of the benefits I did as a child.
I believe some TCK studies have shown that younger children deal with moving overseas more easily than older children. Moving overseas with teenagers might be more challenging.
I do not know of studies that have followed TCK's when going to college and the choices they make in terms of location.
TCK World is a decent resource: http://www.tckworld.com/
TCK studies have also originated in Japan where returning Japanese children are at times ostracized both socially and at work.
Although many of the studies generalize on the topics of careers, marriage and social interaction, I have found much of it relevant. Personally I've found my inclination to live and learn abroad to be spot-on. I'm married to someone who grew up in the States. While she has traveled with me to teach overseas, her preference is to stay in the US. This has put strains on our marriage at times and is a hurdle that must be dealt with.
As a parent of young children I consider living overseas as part of their education. My daughter is now in 3rd grade, the age where I first moved to Indonesia. I'd like to get back in the next few years so she can enjoy some of the benefits I did as a child.
I believe some TCK studies have shown that younger children deal with moving overseas more easily than older children. Moving overseas with teenagers might be more challenging.
I do not know of studies that have followed TCK's when going to college and the choices they make in terms of location.
TCK World is a decent resource: http://www.tckworld.com/
Our experience with kids overseas
The experience with kids overseas has a number of variables. We've had our kids overseas twice, and are back in the states for a spell, and they are eager for more overseas living. I think the two most important variables are:
1. the child...not all children have the personality that can deal with such a lifestyle while others really enjoy it;
2. the parents...the way the parents handle overseas life is a HUGE factor in how the child acclimates. We think of our overseas life as an "adventure" and a lot of kids love to be part of an adventure, I know our kids are keen for the next one to start. If a parent moans and groans about the inconveniences of living overseas, the child is likely to follow their lead.
We've found that our children see their overseas experience as something that makes them unique-- and it does in many ways--and they really enjoy having it as part of their life experience. It's been a confidence boost for them because they know that not all kids could adapt to what they have nor traveled to places they have. In my mind what a child gains living overseas is much more valuable in the long term than what they miss by not living in their home country as a child.
1. the child...not all children have the personality that can deal with such a lifestyle while others really enjoy it;
2. the parents...the way the parents handle overseas life is a HUGE factor in how the child acclimates. We think of our overseas life as an "adventure" and a lot of kids love to be part of an adventure, I know our kids are keen for the next one to start. If a parent moans and groans about the inconveniences of living overseas, the child is likely to follow their lead.
We've found that our children see their overseas experience as something that makes them unique-- and it does in many ways--and they really enjoy having it as part of their life experience. It's been a confidence boost for them because they know that not all kids could adapt to what they have nor traveled to places they have. In my mind what a child gains living overseas is much more valuable in the long term than what they miss by not living in their home country as a child.
children - esp. teens - overseas
Taking our children overseas and opening their eyes to the world they live in has always been one of the key draws of international teaching. What we all struggle with is the confidence that they gain more than they give up. It's easy from an adult perspective to say, "you'll thank us later." What they are concerned about is the now, which brings me back to my original query, reworded perhaps. What places have teachers found better suited to teens than others?
Judging from our current situation, I would NOT recommend taking teens to live in a community where their lives will be radically different than their peers - such as going to the Middle East and not living on a compound. What works for us (proximity to school and attractive, easy to maintain housing) does little for their needs. Theit lack of freedom is a trying and daily grind. Past positions in other parts of the world did not present this problem, so we simply were unaware of how great an impact it would have, perhaps our fault but then that's some of the benefits of a forum like this, right, to make others aware of our pitfalls so they can avoid them?
Judging from our current situation, I would NOT recommend taking teens to live in a community where their lives will be radically different than their peers - such as going to the Middle East and not living on a compound. What works for us (proximity to school and attractive, easy to maintain housing) does little for their needs. Theit lack of freedom is a trying and daily grind. Past positions in other parts of the world did not present this problem, so we simply were unaware of how great an impact it would have, perhaps our fault but then that's some of the benefits of a forum like this, right, to make others aware of our pitfalls so they can avoid them?
Back to the original question
Sorry Scribe, I wandered off track stating many things that are clearly obvious to you and others.
I'm like you and would love to hear experiences (specific schools) where teachers-- who are also parents of teenages-- found a nice combination of professional and family contentment. Surely there are many of you who have found a nice balance through your years of teaching?
I'm like you and would love to hear experiences (specific schools) where teachers-- who are also parents of teenages-- found a nice combination of professional and family contentment. Surely there are many of you who have found a nice balance through your years of teaching?
My children were born abroad. We enjoyed 1950's sort of living with a house-keeper, quality daycare and really great private preschool and early elementary years in the international schools we were at; yet we decided to return to the states for various reasons as our children grew older. Although we thorougly enjoyed our years overseas with our babies, toddlers and young children, we are extremely satisfied we made the move back to the states and that our children are experiencing what probably wouldn't have happened abroad -- a solid standards based education during upper elementary and middle school years and now an IB high school program, competitive athletics, lasting friendships, memories with aging grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.
We've kept in touch with friends who have stayed overseas, and realize that we are happy our children are not TCKs -- just as some of our friends are happy their children haven't grown up in the states. It's a very personal and individualized decision, I guess.
My husband and I have good paying jobs and benefits where we live (better than our last post overseas, actuallly) and so we are able to spend money on travel during vacations with our kids. We don't stay in resorts, though. We try to create authentic cultural experiences for our children so that they learn about languages, foods, housing, etc. of other peoples outside the USA. Last year we went to Mexico with one backpack each and no housing arrangements, for example. It was a fabulous learning experience for all of us.
We've kept in touch with friends who have stayed overseas, and realize that we are happy our children are not TCKs -- just as some of our friends are happy their children haven't grown up in the states. It's a very personal and individualized decision, I guess.
My husband and I have good paying jobs and benefits where we live (better than our last post overseas, actuallly) and so we are able to spend money on travel during vacations with our kids. We don't stay in resorts, though. We try to create authentic cultural experiences for our children so that they learn about languages, foods, housing, etc. of other peoples outside the USA. Last year we went to Mexico with one backpack each and no housing arrangements, for example. It was a fabulous learning experience for all of us.
Single Mum with 2 kids in China
My oldest daughter, now 16, was born during my first stint in China, and we returned to Canada when she was 3. I always felt she was blessed to have had the experience of early childhood in a culture which is extremely child-friendly. I returned to China, this time as a single mum with 2 daughters, 5 years ago, and I can honestly say it was the best decision I've ever made. My school is not large (300 students K-12) but both my girls have been very happy living and studying here.
Since the question was particularly about teens, let me say that while we live in a Chinese community, not a foreigners' compound, her life revolves around school (as I guess it does for most teenagers anywhere). Because the school is small, she has the opportunity to play any sport she likes (no try-outs, very inclusive) and so stays active all year with soccer, volleyball and basketball (the last 2 to regional championships). Our school has tons of after school clubs as well (dance, chess, Service Club, taekwondo and taiqi to name about 10%). My daughter is definitey in the minority, with her blonde hair and blue eyes, but not so much that she feels a freak. She had her first date last year at senior prom, though dating is very low key at the school, with few "couples" even in senior year. However friendships, both single and cross-gender, play a huge part in her daily life. Drugs and drinking, even smoking are virtually unheard of, and the few kids who do are considered a little "odd".
My daughter has friends over (although our apartment is admittedly more modest than the homes of many of her classmates, I can still afford a large 4-bedroom 2-bathroom apartment on my single salary while saving 40%), or goes to visit the homes of their friends, meet each other for coffee, go to karaoke clubs to sing in private rooms, or go on shopping trips downtown. They go swimming, bowling or skating on weekends, and weekdays are mostly at home with family and doing homework. It's an extremely safe environment. They can bike or walk anywhere, and Beijing, with great concerts, shopping and dining, is only 3 hours away.
This year she spend the summer with her dad in Canada, and when she returned to China, said this was the first time that when she landed in Beijing, she truly felt like she was "home".
We discussed moving to Europe or back to Canada for her final 2 years of high school, but together decided to stay here. China has been a wonderful home for our family.
Since the question was particularly about teens, let me say that while we live in a Chinese community, not a foreigners' compound, her life revolves around school (as I guess it does for most teenagers anywhere). Because the school is small, she has the opportunity to play any sport she likes (no try-outs, very inclusive) and so stays active all year with soccer, volleyball and basketball (the last 2 to regional championships). Our school has tons of after school clubs as well (dance, chess, Service Club, taekwondo and taiqi to name about 10%). My daughter is definitey in the minority, with her blonde hair and blue eyes, but not so much that she feels a freak. She had her first date last year at senior prom, though dating is very low key at the school, with few "couples" even in senior year. However friendships, both single and cross-gender, play a huge part in her daily life. Drugs and drinking, even smoking are virtually unheard of, and the few kids who do are considered a little "odd".
My daughter has friends over (although our apartment is admittedly more modest than the homes of many of her classmates, I can still afford a large 4-bedroom 2-bathroom apartment on my single salary while saving 40%), or goes to visit the homes of their friends, meet each other for coffee, go to karaoke clubs to sing in private rooms, or go on shopping trips downtown. They go swimming, bowling or skating on weekends, and weekdays are mostly at home with family and doing homework. It's an extremely safe environment. They can bike or walk anywhere, and Beijing, with great concerts, shopping and dining, is only 3 hours away.
This year she spend the summer with her dad in Canada, and when she returned to China, said this was the first time that when she landed in Beijing, she truly felt like she was "home".
We discussed moving to Europe or back to Canada for her final 2 years of high school, but together decided to stay here. China has been a wonderful home for our family.
Teens and small schools
Chinuk, I think we'd all love to know what school you're at. Sounds great in many ways based on your two recent posts. Care to share?
Also you mentioned that your school has been great for your child because it is small which allows her to parcitipate on sports teams without the dreaded try outs that larger school might require. We were in a similar situation with our oldest child and it was both good and bad. He's not athletic in the least but our small school was desperate for bodies so he was able to compete in sports in which is was not all that skillled. But it was nice to see him enjoying it and learning new skills along the way. The downside is he got a pretty false sense of what it takes to improve and compete at a higher level, and now we're stateside and he's in a very large school where one must try out to make the team it's been hard for him to grasp that if he wants to be part of these teams, he's going to have to work much harder than he's accustomed. It's been a humbling lesson for him but a great one to learn in life. This also extended to academics as well. He was one of the smarter fish in a small pond and tended to coast a bit, and now that's he's no longer near the top academically in a large school with lots of smart kids, it's been interesting to see him respond. But we certainly don't regret the great opportunities afforded him in the small school.
Also you mentioned that your school has been great for your child because it is small which allows her to parcitipate on sports teams without the dreaded try outs that larger school might require. We were in a similar situation with our oldest child and it was both good and bad. He's not athletic in the least but our small school was desperate for bodies so he was able to compete in sports in which is was not all that skillled. But it was nice to see him enjoying it and learning new skills along the way. The downside is he got a pretty false sense of what it takes to improve and compete at a higher level, and now we're stateside and he's in a very large school where one must try out to make the team it's been hard for him to grasp that if he wants to be part of these teams, he's going to have to work much harder than he's accustomed. It's been a humbling lesson for him but a great one to learn in life. This also extended to academics as well. He was one of the smarter fish in a small pond and tended to coast a bit, and now that's he's no longer near the top academically in a large school with lots of smart kids, it's been interesting to see him respond. But we certainly don't regret the great opportunities afforded him in the small school.
I'm at Teda International School (not to be confused with Teda International School Tianjin,known here as IST), and although it's by no means perfect, it's got a lot going for it -- most importantly a principal with integrity and a management board run totally by teachers. Yeah, I know, seems like a dream come true! Of course there are problems with having the educators (amateurs?) run the show, especially when you're dealing with a $3.5 million budget! I've put a new review up so other teachers can get at least one person's perspective on the school.
I hear what you're saying about big fish in a small pond. Certainly sports-wise our league couldn't compete with big city USA, but then if we went back to Canada sports is not that competitive in most places either.
We've decided to stay at least until my oldest daughter graduates (our grads have been placed in excellent universities like Korean National University, Qinghua University in China, University of British Columbia, University of Toronto, and Queen's University in Canada and we've only had a senior class for 4 years!) so we feel her chances of getting into the university of her choice is as good or better than it would be if she moved back to Canada now. With good grades, activities on student council, student newspaper, MUN (our school sends a delegation to BEIMUN every year and this year also to THIMUN-Singapore), sports and volunteering in the community, plus her languages (3) and international experience, she's a very desirable university candidate. Our school, although small, offers 3 AP courses now (English Literature & Composition, Calculus AB and Chinese) and will be adding AP Biology next year. Students doing well on those external exams is an indication that our program is at least as good as anything offered anywhere else.
Not everyone likes the claustrophobia of a small school, in a small city. But small is definitely not all bad!
I hear what you're saying about big fish in a small pond. Certainly sports-wise our league couldn't compete with big city USA, but then if we went back to Canada sports is not that competitive in most places either.
We've decided to stay at least until my oldest daughter graduates (our grads have been placed in excellent universities like Korean National University, Qinghua University in China, University of British Columbia, University of Toronto, and Queen's University in Canada and we've only had a senior class for 4 years!) so we feel her chances of getting into the university of her choice is as good or better than it would be if she moved back to Canada now. With good grades, activities on student council, student newspaper, MUN (our school sends a delegation to BEIMUN every year and this year also to THIMUN-Singapore), sports and volunteering in the community, plus her languages (3) and international experience, she's a very desirable university candidate. Our school, although small, offers 3 AP courses now (English Literature & Composition, Calculus AB and Chinese) and will be adding AP Biology next year. Students doing well on those external exams is an indication that our program is at least as good as anything offered anywhere else.
Not everyone likes the claustrophobia of a small school, in a small city. But small is definitely not all bad!
Good schools for teens
Dear Scribe,
I have been an international school teacher for 20 years and raised my son in various parts of the world, including two stints in the U.S. What I found is that yes, there are important needs that you need to consider in a post when you have teenaged children that are very different from what you might find acceptable when your children are young. AND there are certain areas and types of schools that will make teenagers happier than others.
I spent 11 years in South America and LOVED it....the culture is fabulous and fun, the scenery is breathtaking and the people are super friendly so it is very easy to integrate into the local culture. However, most of the schools in that part of the world are more akin to national bilingual schools than to true international schools. When my son was young, this did not pose a problem and since he grew up speaking both Spanish as well as English he fit in socially and academically with his classmates.
However, once he got to 6th grade, it was apparent to me that his social/emotional needs had changed drastically and the types of schools that were available in most South American countries no longer suited his needs. He was extremely unhappy and was starting to develop a very bad attitude towards school. The 'national' students at the school were very clickish and refused to accept the westerners which meant he had very few friends. I knew that I really needed to do something...either move back to the states or go somewhere which gave him more options/opportunities.
I knew that in the States, even though I could probably get a job at a top notch school that would not mean my son would be able to attend such a school, as the zoning is done by your living area and as a single parent, I would never be able to afford to live in an area that had high enough property taxes to fund a school like that. So that left me searching for a new international posting.
I started to search for schools which had truly diverse student populations and all of the types of social/athletic/artistic/academic/extracurricular opportunities that I wanted for my son. What I found was that many of these types of schools are in Southeast Asia. There is so much foreign investment in this area that there are huge expatriate populations in most of the major cities and these schools have excellent programs for HS students. (sports teams, IB AP programs, community service opportunities, classrooms without walls programs, model UN, Cultural convention, travel clubs, the list goes on and on.)
To make a long story short...I took a job at the Jakarta International School and it was as if my son became a different person. He found that the diverse student body was made up of children who were just like him...most had lived in many different countries, spoke more than one language, and were very understanding of being the new kid and welcomed him with open arms. He had found his "niche".
The culture of the school made it "cool" to be smart and do well, and he rose to the challenge beautifully! He chose not to do the IB diploma but challenged himself by taking all IB and AP classes scoring 6's on all of his exams. He was active in all 3 sports seasons of the year, as the school policy is that they will make as many JV teams as needed to accommodate all students who want to participate. As to the social class of the students, they were diverse, and the paying students definitely had a much higher income bracket than I did, but the salary package for teachers is good enough, and the cost of living low enough, that we did not stand out! Also, the kids themselves did not think about that or make it any kind of an issue. They were just friendly kind, worldly children who had a true sense of global citizenship.
This is just my experience with one Southeast Asian school, however after living and working in the area for 7 years I would say that is the ‘norm’ of most SE. Asian international schools. They are truly diverse, cultural melting pots where all students are accepted for their merits and not how much money they have or what kind of a house they live in. (although we can afford a pretty nice one!) You might want to check out Asia!!
I have been an international school teacher for 20 years and raised my son in various parts of the world, including two stints in the U.S. What I found is that yes, there are important needs that you need to consider in a post when you have teenaged children that are very different from what you might find acceptable when your children are young. AND there are certain areas and types of schools that will make teenagers happier than others.
I spent 11 years in South America and LOVED it....the culture is fabulous and fun, the scenery is breathtaking and the people are super friendly so it is very easy to integrate into the local culture. However, most of the schools in that part of the world are more akin to national bilingual schools than to true international schools. When my son was young, this did not pose a problem and since he grew up speaking both Spanish as well as English he fit in socially and academically with his classmates.
However, once he got to 6th grade, it was apparent to me that his social/emotional needs had changed drastically and the types of schools that were available in most South American countries no longer suited his needs. He was extremely unhappy and was starting to develop a very bad attitude towards school. The 'national' students at the school were very clickish and refused to accept the westerners which meant he had very few friends. I knew that I really needed to do something...either move back to the states or go somewhere which gave him more options/opportunities.
I knew that in the States, even though I could probably get a job at a top notch school that would not mean my son would be able to attend such a school, as the zoning is done by your living area and as a single parent, I would never be able to afford to live in an area that had high enough property taxes to fund a school like that. So that left me searching for a new international posting.
I started to search for schools which had truly diverse student populations and all of the types of social/athletic/artistic/academic/extracurricular opportunities that I wanted for my son. What I found was that many of these types of schools are in Southeast Asia. There is so much foreign investment in this area that there are huge expatriate populations in most of the major cities and these schools have excellent programs for HS students. (sports teams, IB AP programs, community service opportunities, classrooms without walls programs, model UN, Cultural convention, travel clubs, the list goes on and on.)
To make a long story short...I took a job at the Jakarta International School and it was as if my son became a different person. He found that the diverse student body was made up of children who were just like him...most had lived in many different countries, spoke more than one language, and were very understanding of being the new kid and welcomed him with open arms. He had found his "niche".
The culture of the school made it "cool" to be smart and do well, and he rose to the challenge beautifully! He chose not to do the IB diploma but challenged himself by taking all IB and AP classes scoring 6's on all of his exams. He was active in all 3 sports seasons of the year, as the school policy is that they will make as many JV teams as needed to accommodate all students who want to participate. As to the social class of the students, they were diverse, and the paying students definitely had a much higher income bracket than I did, but the salary package for teachers is good enough, and the cost of living low enough, that we did not stand out! Also, the kids themselves did not think about that or make it any kind of an issue. They were just friendly kind, worldly children who had a true sense of global citizenship.
This is just my experience with one Southeast Asian school, however after living and working in the area for 7 years I would say that is the ‘norm’ of most SE. Asian international schools. They are truly diverse, cultural melting pots where all students are accepted for their merits and not how much money they have or what kind of a house they live in. (although we can afford a pretty nice one!) You might want to check out Asia!!
thanks and something to read
Thank you to people who responded - first hand accounts of experiences and snippets of advice serve as valuable resources. I read an article on raising children overseas that mentions most of what we've written about here - the link is through the American School of Guatamala - here it is: http://www.cag.edu.gt/JOBS/JOBS.htm Doesn't seem like a link for this type of reading but it is!
Oops - forgot something
Hit the button marked "Teaching Overseas" once at the page link takes you to in order to access articles.