Cambridge Diary 2015
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
I would love to hear from others about the recruiters they were most disgusted by at this fair. Or unimpressed by. I honestly find it sad that so many talented professionals have to go like beggars to some pretty shady characters asking for jobs at this and other fairs. Just because you are a head or recruiter does not make you that special, and having seen my fair share I believe that often heads simply are the ones who are the last men standing not the best of the best like one would hope. It reminds me of something else I have read on this site previously: namely that a lot of these schools must really suck with heads like these. It makes even those leaving fairs with a job have to feel somewhat sleazy. If not, it probably indicates that far too many educators are simply not that bright these days.
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
Mizmorton:
I wasn't at the fair. I quit international teaching and now will finish my career in public school in the U.S.
I feel sorry that you didn't get a job, but, to be blunt, you need to get used to the uncertainty. Unless you are in that top few percent who know how to play the game like world class politicians, your international will be filed with uncertainty every recruiting season. And remember, once you give up your job, you may be forced to take anything at any school - due to the insane time table that requires teachers in international schools to give notice in November or december.
Good luck with the after fair job hunt. And remember, just because those international admin guys didn't hire you does not mean you aren't a good teacher - it may mean you are not a butt smooching sycophant, which is all a lot of these guys are looking for.
I wasn't at the fair. I quit international teaching and now will finish my career in public school in the U.S.
I feel sorry that you didn't get a job, but, to be blunt, you need to get used to the uncertainty. Unless you are in that top few percent who know how to play the game like world class politicians, your international will be filed with uncertainty every recruiting season. And remember, once you give up your job, you may be forced to take anything at any school - due to the insane time table that requires teachers in international schools to give notice in November or december.
Good luck with the after fair job hunt. And remember, just because those international admin guys didn't hire you does not mean you aren't a good teacher - it may mean you are not a butt smooching sycophant, which is all a lot of these guys are looking for.
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twoteachers
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:15 pm
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
Friday:
I received several emails from schools looking for interviews... Two from schools I wanted. I went into this fair not looking for a Tier 1 job... We are newbies after all. The sign up session was CRAZY!!!! They need a better system.... I walked out with twelve interviews.... Half I was excited about. I looked at it as good practice. It also gave me the opportunity to see what schools to avoid in the future. I also interviewed with ISBeijing, and it went well. I saw a couple of presentations of schools I wanted, which turned out well since it seems matching faces with names is the way to go. I interviewed with Mont Kiara in KL, and it went well. Most schools didn't mind Skyping with my husband. We set up a follow up with my husband for Saturday morning. I then went to ASKuwait and we were able to Skype as well. I waled out if there with a follow up also for Saturday. The reception was nice, but I was supposed to meet with s school from Turkey that night... when I got back to my room, it was cancelled. I was relieved since I was exhausted.
Saturday :
I started my day back at Mont Kiara for the Skype with my husband. It went well, and got an offer for both of us with our two kids. We signed the paperwork, and I was able to fly out of Boston a day early ahead of more bad weather. I personally cancelled all the afternoon interviews which was a good move, and both of my roommates got jobs too.
I put in a ton of research and work ahead of the fair, and we are going to Malaysia in July to a great school. We are ready for our adventure. I don't consider thus fair a failure because I didn't get hired by Manila, Beijing, or Bangkok.....
I received several emails from schools looking for interviews... Two from schools I wanted. I went into this fair not looking for a Tier 1 job... We are newbies after all. The sign up session was CRAZY!!!! They need a better system.... I walked out with twelve interviews.... Half I was excited about. I looked at it as good practice. It also gave me the opportunity to see what schools to avoid in the future. I also interviewed with ISBeijing, and it went well. I saw a couple of presentations of schools I wanted, which turned out well since it seems matching faces with names is the way to go. I interviewed with Mont Kiara in KL, and it went well. Most schools didn't mind Skyping with my husband. We set up a follow up with my husband for Saturday morning. I then went to ASKuwait and we were able to Skype as well. I waled out if there with a follow up also for Saturday. The reception was nice, but I was supposed to meet with s school from Turkey that night... when I got back to my room, it was cancelled. I was relieved since I was exhausted.
Saturday :
I started my day back at Mont Kiara for the Skype with my husband. It went well, and got an offer for both of us with our two kids. We signed the paperwork, and I was able to fly out of Boston a day early ahead of more bad weather. I personally cancelled all the afternoon interviews which was a good move, and both of my roommates got jobs too.
I put in a ton of research and work ahead of the fair, and we are going to Malaysia in July to a great school. We are ready for our adventure. I don't consider thus fair a failure because I didn't get hired by Manila, Beijing, or Bangkok.....
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
Congrats @twoteachers!! KL will be fantastic; we are probably building in a quick vacation there as we start our journey abroad. Happy to see others with kids nabbing positions. :)
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
MizMorton, let me ask you this. Can you teach AP _______ <insert subject here>? Not are you certified to teach AP ________, but CAN you? If the answer is yes, you should have gone for it!
Almost all of my teaching is outside my areas of certification. I have years of experience doing it. International schools are NOT bound by the same bureaucracy and regulations that many US systems are, so there is no need to be certified in an area to teach it.
In fact, where I am from, my certification allows me to teach K to 12, even though it is a secondary certification. I would never teach below grade 6, but I have taught grade 6 up to university, more subject areas than you can shake a stick at.
Just my two cents - don't be afraid to take a stretch if you know you can do the job.
shad
Almost all of my teaching is outside my areas of certification. I have years of experience doing it. International schools are NOT bound by the same bureaucracy and regulations that many US systems are, so there is no need to be certified in an area to teach it.
In fact, where I am from, my certification allows me to teach K to 12, even though it is a secondary certification. I would never teach below grade 6, but I have taught grade 6 up to university, more subject areas than you can shake a stick at.
Just my two cents - don't be afraid to take a stretch if you know you can do the job.
shad
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
Congrats Twoteachers! MKIS is a very good school in KL. I think you will enjoy it. Never worked there, but all my friends who either were there or work in KL speak highly of it.
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twoteachers
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:15 pm
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
Thanks Shad!!!!
@ffmary......
I interviewed with QSI..... I literally felt like I needed a shower after interviewing with Jim Gilson and his crew.... Yuck!!! I called my husband and told him we'd take nothing if that's all there was. Complete creep factor.....
@ffmary......
I interviewed with QSI..... I literally felt like I needed a shower after interviewing with Jim Gilson and his crew.... Yuck!!! I called my husband and told him we'd take nothing if that's all there was. Complete creep factor.....
Discussion
@MizMorton
About half the candidates leave with nothing. People cry, literally devastated.
Schools priortize their interviews so that if they get their preferred candidates they can take that vacancy off the list and redirect their energies (or finish early and hit the bar). They also dont want to miss a preferred candidate who may sign while they are still looking. Second day interviews are more like safety interviews or just notes for the candidate pool.
In the future get their early on Saturday before the first scheduled interview with that school. If your lucky you can squeeze in before the first interview and potentially get the offer before anyone else has a chance.
Sometimes schools send a group of admins and some of those admins are there just to sit int he room and take notes on a pad, some times they just doddle or listen to an iPod. Some of the dump fairs send a VP who has no hiring authority.
Ive never said there werent top schools at BOS, there is a sprinkling of them, ISB (Brussels) ASL (London), ASIJ and a few others, but the majority of schools are lower tier.
Some of them are even creepier. One candidate was interviewed separately from her husband and the recruiter asked if she was happily married.
@ffmary
Im sorry but being the HOS/admin/recruiter really does make them that special. Hiring authority is power.
For many heads their success isnt from value of qualifications or experience its from relationships. They know people and people know of them, and like the paid side of this forum a head who isnt surrounded by scandal is assumed to be doing or have done a good job. Admins know where the bodies are buried and who the skeletons in the closet are, so they get positive references and referrals. Behavior that would classify teachers as unethical unprofessional and would damage our careers, is just "good business" when an admin does it. Misrepresent a reimbursement and save the school and ownership money and thats commendable for an admin. Admins have an all inclusive excuse, rational and explanation, they can always claim their ownership directed or instructed them to do whatever is the issue.
@senator
Even when signing a contract, I never stop looking for a better position and offer.
@twoteachers
The signup session has been that way for a very long time, and is supposed to be crazy, for you. The idea is instill a sense of competition and desperation. While this is less true at the super fairs and even less so at BKK, etc, the majority of fairs are really low tier schools, and the recruiters want you to feel like the options available are ALL thats available, and it works. A number of candidates after leaving realized they could have done better if they hadnt succumbed to the pressure and stress. Signup works because it works for the recruiters. A number of them ENJOY saying "sorry, not this time". Aside from that for top candidates signup is just time to sleep in. High caliber candidates dont go to signup, they have their interviews and times prearranged, and many get signed before the morning of signup anyway. Signup is just another name for the casting call, and if your not the Julia Roberts or Brad Pitt of ITs, you go to the casting call.
QSI is third tier and their theological doctrine is just creepy. You have to be a good liar, pretender or believer to be in that environment. Jim is a total nutter.
@shadowjack
I have to utterly disagree, how would you get experience teaching a subject domestically to have that experience teaching at AP/DIP/A levels with out certification. It just isnt going to happen, and with the current IT marke, if a teacher didnt have AMAZING scores to backup the lack of certification, your not going to be more competitive than someone with certification and good scores. Schools have those options available to them.
Aside from the practical aspect certification in your teaching field makes you legal, bottom tier schools care less about that but upper tier schools can certainly be choosy.
The only scenario that comes to mind where such a situation would work is in non-traditional teaching fields that are hybrids such as design technology crossing over from art or CSCI, depending on the design technology program; or a crossover area like PE and Health, even if you didnt have a specific health certification (English or Theater crossing over into speech).
About half the candidates leave with nothing. People cry, literally devastated.
Schools priortize their interviews so that if they get their preferred candidates they can take that vacancy off the list and redirect their energies (or finish early and hit the bar). They also dont want to miss a preferred candidate who may sign while they are still looking. Second day interviews are more like safety interviews or just notes for the candidate pool.
In the future get their early on Saturday before the first scheduled interview with that school. If your lucky you can squeeze in before the first interview and potentially get the offer before anyone else has a chance.
Sometimes schools send a group of admins and some of those admins are there just to sit int he room and take notes on a pad, some times they just doddle or listen to an iPod. Some of the dump fairs send a VP who has no hiring authority.
Ive never said there werent top schools at BOS, there is a sprinkling of them, ISB (Brussels) ASL (London), ASIJ and a few others, but the majority of schools are lower tier.
Some of them are even creepier. One candidate was interviewed separately from her husband and the recruiter asked if she was happily married.
@ffmary
Im sorry but being the HOS/admin/recruiter really does make them that special. Hiring authority is power.
For many heads their success isnt from value of qualifications or experience its from relationships. They know people and people know of them, and like the paid side of this forum a head who isnt surrounded by scandal is assumed to be doing or have done a good job. Admins know where the bodies are buried and who the skeletons in the closet are, so they get positive references and referrals. Behavior that would classify teachers as unethical unprofessional and would damage our careers, is just "good business" when an admin does it. Misrepresent a reimbursement and save the school and ownership money and thats commendable for an admin. Admins have an all inclusive excuse, rational and explanation, they can always claim their ownership directed or instructed them to do whatever is the issue.
@senator
Even when signing a contract, I never stop looking for a better position and offer.
@twoteachers
The signup session has been that way for a very long time, and is supposed to be crazy, for you. The idea is instill a sense of competition and desperation. While this is less true at the super fairs and even less so at BKK, etc, the majority of fairs are really low tier schools, and the recruiters want you to feel like the options available are ALL thats available, and it works. A number of candidates after leaving realized they could have done better if they hadnt succumbed to the pressure and stress. Signup works because it works for the recruiters. A number of them ENJOY saying "sorry, not this time". Aside from that for top candidates signup is just time to sleep in. High caliber candidates dont go to signup, they have their interviews and times prearranged, and many get signed before the morning of signup anyway. Signup is just another name for the casting call, and if your not the Julia Roberts or Brad Pitt of ITs, you go to the casting call.
QSI is third tier and their theological doctrine is just creepy. You have to be a good liar, pretender or believer to be in that environment. Jim is a total nutter.
@shadowjack
I have to utterly disagree, how would you get experience teaching a subject domestically to have that experience teaching at AP/DIP/A levels with out certification. It just isnt going to happen, and with the current IT marke, if a teacher didnt have AMAZING scores to backup the lack of certification, your not going to be more competitive than someone with certification and good scores. Schools have those options available to them.
Aside from the practical aspect certification in your teaching field makes you legal, bottom tier schools care less about that but upper tier schools can certainly be choosy.
The only scenario that comes to mind where such a situation would work is in non-traditional teaching fields that are hybrids such as design technology crossing over from art or CSCI, depending on the design technology program; or a crossover area like PE and Health, even if you didnt have a specific health certification (English or Theater crossing over into speech).
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
Why would you disagree. I have taught English up to grade 12 in the past. I have never taught AP English. If someone asked me if I could teach an assignment of English 11 and 12 AP and regular, my answer would be, "Yes", without a doubt. If I wasn't sure I could do it, I wouldn't say that. I don't take up assignments I can't do (thus when offered a chance to teach a math 10 class, I declined, as I would be doing the students a great disservice. I volunteered for math 9, which I have taught in the past and which I could do a good job of. They ended up having an increase in enrollment and hired another math teacher).
So it's not whether MizMorton is certified to teach AP, as opposed to regular English, or whether she has taught AP in the past - it's all about whether she CAN teach AP.
Having taught multiple subjects up to grade 12 level, some within my certifications and others not, it is not certification that matters, it is ability. In the end, for almost all schools, that's what really matters.
just my 2 cents,
shad
So it's not whether MizMorton is certified to teach AP, as opposed to regular English, or whether she has taught AP in the past - it's all about whether she CAN teach AP.
Having taught multiple subjects up to grade 12 level, some within my certifications and others not, it is not certification that matters, it is ability. In the end, for almost all schools, that's what really matters.
just my 2 cents,
shad
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Fraisinette
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:58 pm
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
We also had a blast - it was our first fair. Had 8 interviews and got 3 offers. We both landed our dream jobs in our dream country and will be trained in the IB programme. Loved chatting to all the candidates, recruiters and Search Associates. Had Sunday to see the city and then took an earlier flight out of Logan to beat the snow storm. Thank you everybody for helping us out with your tips and good luck to everybody with call-backs and new openings!
Fraisinette
Fraisinette
Reply
@shadowjack
If I was sitting across from you in an interview and you said you could teach AP English without any data to back it up and expressing no experience in doing so, Id ask and think "how does this person know if they can do this and be successful". Many have the head/admin/recruiter found themselves in the position of having a teacher who either mis-represented their abilities or over estimated them. Your claims really dont have any weight to them, and why risk HIRING you to teach tan exit level course, because you say you can do it.
As strong as your character and philosophy are and im a recruiter and your an applicant I dont know you from anyone, you could just be saying you can teach it to get the job, why would I believe, you, especially when you really dont "know" your self, you think you can, but having never done it you dont know.
No it really is about whether shes certified and experienced in her field, this is a hiring decision not an assignment decision, and given the market of candiates why take that risk. Im not going to sign a contract and hire someone for a position in an exit level form/class on their say so that they can do the job, and neither would any head/recruiter/admin if they had other options.
Two things matetr what you can teach (certifications, degrees, etc) and what you have taught (experience), of the two experience is king. Self professed claims of "I can" dont even make it into the equation.
If I was sitting across from you in an interview and you said you could teach AP English without any data to back it up and expressing no experience in doing so, Id ask and think "how does this person know if they can do this and be successful". Many have the head/admin/recruiter found themselves in the position of having a teacher who either mis-represented their abilities or over estimated them. Your claims really dont have any weight to them, and why risk HIRING you to teach tan exit level course, because you say you can do it.
As strong as your character and philosophy are and im a recruiter and your an applicant I dont know you from anyone, you could just be saying you can teach it to get the job, why would I believe, you, especially when you really dont "know" your self, you think you can, but having never done it you dont know.
No it really is about whether shes certified and experienced in her field, this is a hiring decision not an assignment decision, and given the market of candiates why take that risk. Im not going to sign a contract and hire someone for a position in an exit level form/class on their say so that they can do the job, and neither would any head/recruiter/admin if they had other options.
Two things matetr what you can teach (certifications, degrees, etc) and what you have taught (experience), of the two experience is king. Self professed claims of "I can" dont even make it into the equation.
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
I don't know how it works anywhere else, but for the school I'm in now (here in the US), you have to have had the AP training to teach AP courses.
That said, I have a great story to back up my ability claim. I have a General Science certification, which I managed to get without having ever taken a proper mechanical physics class (I filled the requirement with quantum physics, which is not really taught to K-12 kids). One year, I was given a section of Intro Physics. I basically had to teach it to myself, staying a chapter ahead of the kids. They had a state standardized test in it at the end of the year, and I am very proud to say that 100% of my kids passed. 100%. I can assure you that this was not a group of geniuses, either. I know that standardized tests don't necessarily prove mastery, but it's the only way I can quantify my ability to teach a subject I wasn't trained to teach.
ETA: In terms of general ability, I once had a two-week temp job at a major transportation engineering firm. I was supposed to answer phones. Within a few days, they had me editing reports, and by the end of the two weeks they were begging me to stay and offering to send me to school to become a transportation engineer. I'm no dummy. (I already had a teaching job at the time; this was summer.)
PsyGuy, I wasn't devastated, and I didn't cry. I was realistic going in. Seeing the lack of jobs available was the biggest letdown for us, and the biggest clue that we'd be leaving with nothing. The worst part for me is that we still have to deal with the drudgery of looking. Ugh. On the upside, we've gotten a couple of e-mails from admins we met who were impressed with us and our materials, saying they were sorry they didn't have positions. I'm optimistic, as long as the schools we're applying to now will just LOOK at us.
I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus publicly, but if you want to know who the off-putting HOS was, PM me. I doubt you'll be looking there, it's a tiny place.
Fraisinette, congratulations! Check your messages!
That said, I have a great story to back up my ability claim. I have a General Science certification, which I managed to get without having ever taken a proper mechanical physics class (I filled the requirement with quantum physics, which is not really taught to K-12 kids). One year, I was given a section of Intro Physics. I basically had to teach it to myself, staying a chapter ahead of the kids. They had a state standardized test in it at the end of the year, and I am very proud to say that 100% of my kids passed. 100%. I can assure you that this was not a group of geniuses, either. I know that standardized tests don't necessarily prove mastery, but it's the only way I can quantify my ability to teach a subject I wasn't trained to teach.
ETA: In terms of general ability, I once had a two-week temp job at a major transportation engineering firm. I was supposed to answer phones. Within a few days, they had me editing reports, and by the end of the two weeks they were begging me to stay and offering to send me to school to become a transportation engineer. I'm no dummy. (I already had a teaching job at the time; this was summer.)
PsyGuy, I wasn't devastated, and I didn't cry. I was realistic going in. Seeing the lack of jobs available was the biggest letdown for us, and the biggest clue that we'd be leaving with nothing. The worst part for me is that we still have to deal with the drudgery of looking. Ugh. On the upside, we've gotten a couple of e-mails from admins we met who were impressed with us and our materials, saying they were sorry they didn't have positions. I'm optimistic, as long as the schools we're applying to now will just LOOK at us.
I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus publicly, but if you want to know who the off-putting HOS was, PM me. I doubt you'll be looking there, it's a tiny place.
Fraisinette, congratulations! Check your messages!
Reply
@MizMorton
Those AP rules are just your school or district. AP is an external assessment program. Any student can register to test regardless of how they were prepared, whether its a formal class, tutor, test prep organization, home/community schooled, or self study.
What makes an AP course or AP teacher qualified outside whatever regulatory requirement in you location is having a college board approved syllabus. Most organizations have or procure (buy) approved syllabuses and keep them on record in the master curriculum file, so AP teachers just get trained locally to deliver whatever the organizations syllabus covers.
AP does have teacher training workshops that issue certificates but having one isnt a requirement to teach an AP course.
I wouldnt use that story in an interview, its sounds like you basically "got by" and got lucky. HOS/admins/recruiters arent putting exit form/class exam scores to luck or a teacher thats one lesson ahead of the students. Edit out the part of studding one lesson ahead of the students and it makes a marketable story. Id have someone prepared to back those scores up for you.
I did not intend to infer that you were devastated or that you cried, only that there are attendees that are devastated and people do cry.
All the school looked at you, they just didnt pursue further inquiry. You may want to consider adjusting your strategy and apply for everything and anything your qualified for, and see what interest you get, then look at the merits and flaws of what you do get, and make decisions from their even if that decision is to pass this year. There are advantages to low hanging fruit.
Those AP rules are just your school or district. AP is an external assessment program. Any student can register to test regardless of how they were prepared, whether its a formal class, tutor, test prep organization, home/community schooled, or self study.
What makes an AP course or AP teacher qualified outside whatever regulatory requirement in you location is having a college board approved syllabus. Most organizations have or procure (buy) approved syllabuses and keep them on record in the master curriculum file, so AP teachers just get trained locally to deliver whatever the organizations syllabus covers.
AP does have teacher training workshops that issue certificates but having one isnt a requirement to teach an AP course.
I wouldnt use that story in an interview, its sounds like you basically "got by" and got lucky. HOS/admins/recruiters arent putting exit form/class exam scores to luck or a teacher thats one lesson ahead of the students. Edit out the part of studding one lesson ahead of the students and it makes a marketable story. Id have someone prepared to back those scores up for you.
I did not intend to infer that you were devastated or that you cried, only that there are attendees that are devastated and people do cry.
All the school looked at you, they just didnt pursue further inquiry. You may want to consider adjusting your strategy and apply for everything and anything your qualified for, and see what interest you get, then look at the merits and flaws of what you do get, and make decisions from their even if that decision is to pass this year. There are advantages to low hanging fruit.
Re: Cambridge Diary 2015
Done, re: everything you said. I have written it as a marketable story.
There's low-hanging fruit, and then there's fruit you're allergic to that will make you sick. We have boundaries, even if that means staying home. But thanks for the advice.
There's low-hanging fruit, and then there's fruit you're allergic to that will make you sick. We have boundaries, even if that means staying home. But thanks for the advice.
Reply
@Fraisinette
I dont know what you teach but in IB only individual PYP teachers are required to be trained, in secondary the school only needs one trained member per subject offered. Make sure you IB training is a sponsored IB workshop, and not just inhouse PD IB training by your coordinator. You want to get an official certificate out of it to go with your IB experience.
@MizMorton
You dont have to take an offer from the low hanging fruit that makes you sick, but you need to establish a range of your marketability and while you have feel good positive feelings about your fair experience, you really have no offers to evaluate your marketability against, and the bottom or baseline is going to be the easiest. Finding out who "will" hire you is going to help frame your vacancy search, and give you comparisons and information to work with as you continue your search.
I dont know what you teach but in IB only individual PYP teachers are required to be trained, in secondary the school only needs one trained member per subject offered. Make sure you IB training is a sponsored IB workshop, and not just inhouse PD IB training by your coordinator. You want to get an official certificate out of it to go with your IB experience.
@MizMorton
You dont have to take an offer from the low hanging fruit that makes you sick, but you need to establish a range of your marketability and while you have feel good positive feelings about your fair experience, you really have no offers to evaluate your marketability against, and the bottom or baseline is going to be the easiest. Finding out who "will" hire you is going to help frame your vacancy search, and give you comparisons and information to work with as you continue your search.