I see the question ISS vs. Search a lot on this board, so I will give you my impressions of both fairs from this year as I went to both.
1. In most cases, NEVER do both fairs! I am beat to death and I can take a lot of punishment!
2. Judge yourself like schools judge you. ISS does not have as many tier 1 schools. Most of us reslly are not tier 1 teachers, we just aspire to be. MOST of the time T1's want you to be young and vibrant with a track record of staying 3-5 years at your previous 2 post and fully versed on most if not all current educational trends (or at least the ones they use.).
3. ISS was a candidate fair, Search is not. That being said ISS makes a big open distinction in how candidates are treated vs. recruiters. 4 tables? At least there were couches outside and food was free. Search gave 200 baht which was a sandwich and a drink while recruiters got 2000 baht. Ok I get it. Really it is about money.
4. Fairs fail candidates who do not get jobs. We are in the business of giving feedback. An assessment without feedback is a useless waste of time. Search was such a grind for recruiters that they do not take the time to provide one iota of direction to a candidate they reject. In one instance I had 3 interviews with a school only to receive the coldest rejection (or so it feels..) thanks, but we will not be making you an offer. YOU scream WHY???? Hired another?, the director didn't feel I fit?. My years of experience were not enough to convince you? I had a pimple? You hate blue eyes? Seriously write 2 sentences, give some small hope to this struggle.
5. Having little experience or even none can still land you a job. Just be wary of the job, and the school. I rejected as many if not more schools than rejected me simply because I didn't even talk to them. Several I just said no to in the interview because I simply did not want the same things as they did. That being said, you need experience and if you get an offer from a school ISR has everyone running from, sure take it, just know everyone is running and you are going in. Get your experience and get out.
6. Get to know as many people as possible. The best contact I made at this school was with a HOS who had no job for me. We just kept showing up at the same place at the same time, and the freedom to learn bits of wisdom from him all while having nothing on the line was fantastic! Really learned a lot from those encounters.
7. ISS vs. Search. - if you have less experience and are open to various opportunities this is the fair for you. If you are on the T1 track this is the fair for you. See my #1. ISS is more laid back because you are not constantly jockying for position like you are for Search. Search schools tend to go to multiple fairs and are willing to not hire anyone, especially the T1 European schools. Do understand some heads have been at this for 30+ years. They know each other! I have seen and heard them wheeling and dealing teachers like they are trading baseball cards.
No doubt there are people that go to the fairs just for the experience, and others just to work. I was fortunate to find an acceptable position which will further my career over the next 4-6 years. I saw super things happen and faces which covered disappointment. Be true to yourself, reach for the stars, but beware that if they are looking for a 1st grade teacher at Search BKK and you have taught Kinder and 2nd grade, you are most likely NOT qualified!
BKK roundup 2014
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
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newchapter
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:03 pm
@ newchapter. Please understand that I interviewed with 20 schools. I was on auto pilot after a while. I think the questions are different depending on your subject matter. I had some really good interviewers, one whose school was a shambles, one who just asked weird backwards questions (tell me about something not working etc.), one who was OUT there talking about the glory days of the mid 90's, i think you have to know yourself as a person and show it to them. It will either work or it won't. You just need that one offer to come through.
@ Rover - I think the ISS fair was easier to score a job. For me... I was a BIG hit there! I got turned down for one interview, and I proceded to fill my dance card so full I had to cancel 2 interviews. I turned down any school that didn't do exactly what I wanted and still had 3 offers. Search, I took a different approach. T1's only! 3 European, 5 Asian. I told one school no after 10 minutes (I was definitely wrong about their status... They were MESSED up!), and did not receive any offers from any of the others. Did I strike out to far beyond my grasp? Possibly.?,?? Who knows read my number 4 above. The reality is we are here supporting ourselves helping where we can, and these schools get to hear out hearts beating as we hold them to their ears they are so intimate with us, and one email of we are not pursuing is all we get in return. Try to respond to their email and you will get tumbleweeds in the desert back from your reply! If you run into them, you might elicit a responce, but only if you force their hand. More likely than not they will run, or duck and evade as much as possible. That is why there are candidate and recruiter lounges!!
@ Rover - I think the ISS fair was easier to score a job. For me... I was a BIG hit there! I got turned down for one interview, and I proceded to fill my dance card so full I had to cancel 2 interviews. I turned down any school that didn't do exactly what I wanted and still had 3 offers. Search, I took a different approach. T1's only! 3 European, 5 Asian. I told one school no after 10 minutes (I was definitely wrong about their status... They were MESSED up!), and did not receive any offers from any of the others. Did I strike out to far beyond my grasp? Possibly.?,?? Who knows read my number 4 above. The reality is we are here supporting ourselves helping where we can, and these schools get to hear out hearts beating as we hold them to their ears they are so intimate with us, and one email of we are not pursuing is all we get in return. Try to respond to their email and you will get tumbleweeds in the desert back from your reply! If you run into them, you might elicit a responce, but only if you force their hand. More likely than not they will run, or duck and evade as much as possible. That is why there are candidate and recruiter lounges!!
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
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vettievette
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 am
Making the trek back to my current job and finally have time to think. Compared to my first Search fair in Cambridge a few years ago, I had a much more relaxed approach to the crazy. I arrived in Bangkok on Monday and hit the ground running with seeing the city and not thinking about the fair. Everything was ready to go and all that needed to be done was for my hotel's housekeeping to press my fair clothes. We opted not to stay at the Sheraton, but stayed near the ISS hotel by the. Shangri-La. The place was already buzzing with teachers throwing around the school-speak.
I turned my imaginary earplugs on because, to me, talking about jobs and school-speak isn't very relaxing. My friend mused that we all sound the same in that "on" mode. LOL. Day 1: couple of rejections (one from a dream school but I moved on mentally fast) and a few "fast pass" notes. Interviewed with a big school in China a day before signups and that was quite a boost. The last 2.5 hours of the day I hit the presentations. One school I'd never heard of, but since I was rejected by "dream" school - I went for it and was pleasantly surprised. More on that later.
Day 2: sign-ups. Being in a specialist position, there were fortunately lots of jobs posted but only a few areas I was interested in. I prioritized the "fast pass" schools and hit the other tables. Not the long lines I was expecting except for the el nido school in Chile. I even said thank you to the recruiters who said "thanks. But no thanks" in my box. They were all very gracious and spoke highly of my references. I then hit "pleasant surprise" school. I embarrassed myself w/ a big faux pax that I can't post here for fear of outing myself, but I got an appointment anyway and walked away completely red. Signed up with a few more schools and off I went.
Day 2: interviews. Interviews went well. All schools wanted to move forward. One school I'd visited before on PD and knew all their staff in my department and their director. Tier 1 school in their region by all accounts. Not in the part of the world I am interested in at the moment, but I had the utmost respect for them and incoming 2014/15 head whom I worked for before. I made them all aware of this right at the beginning and they still wanted me to go to the next phase. I even wrote my old boss just to let him know. Another school was SUPER excited and principal wanted to create position for me, but was unsure. I really like this school and was willing to explore it more. I had another interview at 6 with a school I was interested in and did more schmoozing at the cocktails hour.
Day 3: more interviews. A few more interviews out of the way. Follow-up interview w/ the school I was most familiar with. They found me later on and said their head of school wanted me to meet him Saturday morning. I agreed. Faux pax/pleasant surprise school had all their heads, owner, etc interviewing me. I apologized for my most embarrassing moment and they were very gracious. They asked me at the end if I had any offers and I'd honestly replied that I felt some things may be in the works, but nothing solid yet. They asked me to wait for them. I get a call at 10:30 pm from principal at faux pax school while I'm at Asiatique to speak w/ their head of department in the morning. Whew!
Day 4: D-Day. The head of school in my old boss' soon to be new school makes me an offer Saturday morning. Great package and amazing city. He knows I'm considering other options, so he gives me til end of day. My excitement about the school willing to create a position for me was dashed quickly, but it was largely due to visa questions w/ my being a counselor vs. a teaching position and I appreciated the school's honesty. I spoke with faux pax school's head of department and we got on really well. Then the long wait.
I probably went from sane to crazy to sane in a period of hours. Luckily, friends of mine who were done recruiting were staying in the hotel so I was in their room hanging out. I went down and spoke w/ Michael Williams since my own associate was not there. He was very supportive and empathized with having a "bird in hand" and waiting. It was still a bit early in the afternoon so he advised that I wait a bit longer before calling. My boyfriend who was taking care of our Bangkok shopping list, was also on-call the process.
Finally, I call the principal at faux pax school since I had his number from the night before. He asks to call me back within the hour. We have a great conversation and he states that his HR head will call me now. I asked him if he was making me an offer and he laughs for putting him on the spot, but understands the nature of the beast aka the fair. He said that the HR director will be in touch shortly. She calls me and we discuss a few concerns I had about visas due to my state licensure, etc. and assures me it is not a problem. Then, suddenly, she is making me a verbal offer on the phone. I want to start screaming and I do a few fist pumps in the air. Mind you, I was in the bathroom of the hotel room so to have a bit more privacy. She then informed me she was at the hair salon and will be emailing me my contract and contacting Search later. I call the principal I'd be working with and thank him profusely. I dance into the room, high five my friends, and call the boyfriend who is quite relieved that I was not in the hospital LOL.
I pause and take time to try and reach other school. I could not find them anywhere so I leave a very nice card in their box and send an email. I also email my former boss - who happens to be one of my key references. I arrive back at my hotel, wake up my parents quickly in the US to tell them good news, quickly review the contract just emailed to me, and we head back to Asiatique to enjoy it more.
What a ride. And as they say at Search - never get distracted by the big, shiny schools...sometimes the ones you've never even heard about will offer the greatest opportunity.
I turned my imaginary earplugs on because, to me, talking about jobs and school-speak isn't very relaxing. My friend mused that we all sound the same in that "on" mode. LOL. Day 1: couple of rejections (one from a dream school but I moved on mentally fast) and a few "fast pass" notes. Interviewed with a big school in China a day before signups and that was quite a boost. The last 2.5 hours of the day I hit the presentations. One school I'd never heard of, but since I was rejected by "dream" school - I went for it and was pleasantly surprised. More on that later.
Day 2: sign-ups. Being in a specialist position, there were fortunately lots of jobs posted but only a few areas I was interested in. I prioritized the "fast pass" schools and hit the other tables. Not the long lines I was expecting except for the el nido school in Chile. I even said thank you to the recruiters who said "thanks. But no thanks" in my box. They were all very gracious and spoke highly of my references. I then hit "pleasant surprise" school. I embarrassed myself w/ a big faux pax that I can't post here for fear of outing myself, but I got an appointment anyway and walked away completely red. Signed up with a few more schools and off I went.
Day 2: interviews. Interviews went well. All schools wanted to move forward. One school I'd visited before on PD and knew all their staff in my department and their director. Tier 1 school in their region by all accounts. Not in the part of the world I am interested in at the moment, but I had the utmost respect for them and incoming 2014/15 head whom I worked for before. I made them all aware of this right at the beginning and they still wanted me to go to the next phase. I even wrote my old boss just to let him know. Another school was SUPER excited and principal wanted to create position for me, but was unsure. I really like this school and was willing to explore it more. I had another interview at 6 with a school I was interested in and did more schmoozing at the cocktails hour.
Day 3: more interviews. A few more interviews out of the way. Follow-up interview w/ the school I was most familiar with. They found me later on and said their head of school wanted me to meet him Saturday morning. I agreed. Faux pax/pleasant surprise school had all their heads, owner, etc interviewing me. I apologized for my most embarrassing moment and they were very gracious. They asked me at the end if I had any offers and I'd honestly replied that I felt some things may be in the works, but nothing solid yet. They asked me to wait for them. I get a call at 10:30 pm from principal at faux pax school while I'm at Asiatique to speak w/ their head of department in the morning. Whew!
Day 4: D-Day. The head of school in my old boss' soon to be new school makes me an offer Saturday morning. Great package and amazing city. He knows I'm considering other options, so he gives me til end of day. My excitement about the school willing to create a position for me was dashed quickly, but it was largely due to visa questions w/ my being a counselor vs. a teaching position and I appreciated the school's honesty. I spoke with faux pax school's head of department and we got on really well. Then the long wait.
I probably went from sane to crazy to sane in a period of hours. Luckily, friends of mine who were done recruiting were staying in the hotel so I was in their room hanging out. I went down and spoke w/ Michael Williams since my own associate was not there. He was very supportive and empathized with having a "bird in hand" and waiting. It was still a bit early in the afternoon so he advised that I wait a bit longer before calling. My boyfriend who was taking care of our Bangkok shopping list, was also on-call the process.
Finally, I call the principal at faux pax school since I had his number from the night before. He asks to call me back within the hour. We have a great conversation and he states that his HR head will call me now. I asked him if he was making me an offer and he laughs for putting him on the spot, but understands the nature of the beast aka the fair. He said that the HR director will be in touch shortly. She calls me and we discuss a few concerns I had about visas due to my state licensure, etc. and assures me it is not a problem. Then, suddenly, she is making me a verbal offer on the phone. I want to start screaming and I do a few fist pumps in the air. Mind you, I was in the bathroom of the hotel room so to have a bit more privacy. She then informed me she was at the hair salon and will be emailing me my contract and contacting Search later. I call the principal I'd be working with and thank him profusely. I dance into the room, high five my friends, and call the boyfriend who is quite relieved that I was not in the hospital LOL.
I pause and take time to try and reach other school. I could not find them anywhere so I leave a very nice card in their box and send an email. I also email my former boss - who happens to be one of my key references. I arrive back at my hotel, wake up my parents quickly in the US to tell them good news, quickly review the contract just emailed to me, and we head back to Asiatique to enjoy it more.
What a ride. And as they say at Search - never get distracted by the big, shiny schools...sometimes the ones you've never even heard about will offer the greatest opportunity.
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vettievette
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 am
[quote="Bellarex"]Sounds like an awesome experience, except for the whoops-that-shall-not-be-named. Glad you found what you were looking for![/quote]
Thanks for reading and for the congrats! It was cathartic to write about and I'm still somewhat in a shock that I got to where I wanted to be considering how stiff competition was. They said this was, by far, the most competitive fair for counselors they've seen.
Thanks for reading and for the congrats! It was cathartic to write about and I'm still somewhat in a shock that I got to where I wanted to be considering how stiff competition was. They said this was, by far, the most competitive fair for counselors they've seen.