American School of Warsaw

[fine dude]

The school is asking for two open references to be included in the job application. Since my supervisors have already submitted confidential references to Search Associates very recently, should I request ASW to look at my Search Profile for references? In that case, will it be of any harm if I just email the school my CV and cover letter? Your thoughts will be appreciated.

Thank you.

[shadowjack]

Find two other academic references to send. Get their letters and send them on.

[Cheery Littlebottom]

This always bothers me.

In the past, we have had conflicting advice from different admins. Only one has suggested we request a reference in our hand and send it on. The others give variations on the theme of "they'll look in Search, and will probably just phone me up about you if they are interested."

I believe that references should be confidential. They are an article of faith between school managers who have a duty to be up front and honest about teachers. This is one of the most important ways of getting the best for the kids in their school. They get placed in the agency database IN ORDER FOR SCHOOLS TO SEE THEM. So why bloody well ask for them as well? Is it for candidates who are NOT with Search? Are schools trying to circumvent the agencies to avoid fees? Unlikely, as that's where they posted the job in the first place, so why ask?

I understand the need to get a full picture when a school makes a commitment to a candidate, but some of these school application processes are little short of bloody minded. Singapore American Springs to mind, with a deliberately long-winded process. It seems, frankly, childish. As if a long application process would "put off" anyone but the most sincere.

Personally, I think Rob Graham has it right. Check out his "Schrole" software. (And no, I am not Rob Graham!) IS Bangkok are using it to manage their applicants. It was easy to fill in, has a better dashboard than Search and offers schools a better interface. I assume that if they pay for the software they could even get it to show things as THEY want it, who knows?

Recruiting is a burden for schools, I know this. It takes time and effort to get the right people on the bus. But surely what is important is why the candidate wants to teach at THEIR school? References GENERALISE about teachers in their current role. No admin in their right mind is going to write a different reference for each application. Therefore, asking for the references along with the cover letter and resume has a degree of built in redundancy, in my view.

All the director needs to do is phone up and ask the current director "would you hire this person again." End of story. In the end, if a person is qualified, competent and seems a good fit to the role, that is probably the single most important question that gets asked.

[indogal]

" No admin in their right mind is going to write a different reference for each application."

I think that's a pretty sad statement. After dedicating years of your professional life to a school, I feel that's the least your admin can do for you. If your direct supervisor can not comment on your instructional practice in the class and what makes it outstanding, then I think that's a poor reflection of people's priorities within a school. Shouldn't admin know what;s going on in people's classes?

I agree putting all these documents together for recruiting is frustrating, and that the schools we apply to could just as easily look at our files on Search but maybe they have a process where they begin by looking at the files we send in & if they see something they like, then they move onto the confidential references on the Search file?

[fine dude]

Let's not hijack the main argument please. If you have or haven't included references in your job application to ASW, please comment.
Many thanks to those who have already posted pertinent comments.

[Cheery Littlebottom]

Did not include references. Referred them to search.

[indogal]

I say wait for the letters of reference

[christyn2]

I sent the letters of reference. One of the letters was from my director at my past school, so I already had the letter. The other was from my current principal.

Now here is the dumb thing; both of these individuals also wrote me confidential references on Search, so yea, it's redundant. I guess I could have sent in a letter from another administrator who didn't write me a confidential reference, but I didn't think of that.

This makes no sense to me either. I agree that the confidential one are the ones that should matter the most.

[Crgallen22]

I, too, sent reference letters with my application packet to ASW even though both references had already completed confidential references through Search.

[Bellarex]

My associate on Search recommended referring them (schools in general) to my profile to view the confidential references, and if they request more then to send open letters. Maybe a biased opinion, but one none the less.

[PsyGuy]

Its a legal requirement. They need to have the reference letter on file. If its in the Search database once its deactivated when your hired, its not accessible to the school anymore. They need it in their employment files which is why they are asking for two open letters. The issue was discussed at several conferences this year.
I have copies of the same letters as those in my profile.

Sadly its true but very few admins right unique letters for each employee, must have a template they use and change a few lines or add one or two lines.