School psychologists hired at international schools?
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andybaxley86
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:25 am
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School psychologists hired at international schools?
Hello all. I am curious to know if international schools hire school psychologists. If so, what functions do they generally tend to serve? Are psychologists and counselors interchangeabe, or do schools hire both? Many thanks!
Psychologist / Special Ed - Shanghai, PRC
Shanghai Community International School www.scis-his.org
Remaining openings for 2013-2014:
Elementary School Psychologist / Special Education
High School French Teacher (part-time)
High School Korean
Application: https://www.scis-his.org/book/employment
Shanghai Community International School www.scis-his.org
Remaining openings for 2013-2014:
Elementary School Psychologist / Special Education
High School French Teacher (part-time)
High School Korean
Application: https://www.scis-his.org/book/employment
Reply
They do but its a niche field. Only the very large upper tier schools maintain a psychologist on staff, and of those schools most of them are the "American" DOS school. Its just too expensive and of very limited value. Most of the smaller moderate size schools, just cant justify the cost. Most of the students are well adjusted, well resourced students, they dont have the problems you find in an inner city public school, and for the students that do have chronic long term psychological issues the family/parents have an outside or private mental health professional they have access too. A couple other considerations:
1) Most schools dont do a lot of psychometric's. They do an admission assessment and maybe some cognitive development/intelligence testing but without combining the position with another set of tasks (typically an AP or counselor position) it leaves a lot of time sitting around and playing angry birds.
2) Unless your at a mostly all western/international student body, which again is mostly upper/top tier schools, most students without a pretty proficient degree of English wouldnt be able to express themselves sufficiently for talk therapy or other procedures (psychometric's). Hard to talk about problems when you dont understand each others language very well.
3) In many cultures the idea of western mental health and talk therapy, just isn't an acceptable part of their culture. In countries, where face or some variation of face is a high priority part of their social behavior, people (and students) dont talk about their problems with a stranger. They talk to a close friend or family member.
4) Your not a licensed mental health professional. In some countries mental health as is practiced in the west doesnt exist. Mental health isnt seperatly regulated, it falls under the medical profession. Your American School Psyc isnt a global license, just because your American. Just as you need to meet the qualifications from state to state (or province, or territory), you need to meet the individual and specific regulations in the foreign country just as any other practitioner. What this means is that Sch.Psy's in international schools, by their virtue of being essentially private/independent schools means they have hired you as an educator to provide student services.
Most Sch/Psy's serve dual roles as a counselor as well, and in those cases ISs are equally divided over whether they will require a separate counselor credential.
1) Most schools dont do a lot of psychometric's. They do an admission assessment and maybe some cognitive development/intelligence testing but without combining the position with another set of tasks (typically an AP or counselor position) it leaves a lot of time sitting around and playing angry birds.
2) Unless your at a mostly all western/international student body, which again is mostly upper/top tier schools, most students without a pretty proficient degree of English wouldnt be able to express themselves sufficiently for talk therapy or other procedures (psychometric's). Hard to talk about problems when you dont understand each others language very well.
3) In many cultures the idea of western mental health and talk therapy, just isn't an acceptable part of their culture. In countries, where face or some variation of face is a high priority part of their social behavior, people (and students) dont talk about their problems with a stranger. They talk to a close friend or family member.
4) Your not a licensed mental health professional. In some countries mental health as is practiced in the west doesnt exist. Mental health isnt seperatly regulated, it falls under the medical profession. Your American School Psyc isnt a global license, just because your American. Just as you need to meet the qualifications from state to state (or province, or territory), you need to meet the individual and specific regulations in the foreign country just as any other practitioner. What this means is that Sch.Psy's in international schools, by their virtue of being essentially private/independent schools means they have hired you as an educator to provide student services.
Most Sch/Psy's serve dual roles as a counselor as well, and in those cases ISs are equally divided over whether they will require a separate counselor credential.
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interteach
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
...aaaaand...PsyGuy gets it just about all completely wrong again.
He's right that many smaller and less resourced international schools don't hire a school pyschologist, but many of the larger ones have a learning support program and have one on staff.
Psyguy for some reason believes that school psychologists aren't primarily hired for learning support, and also thinks that just because someone is from a privileged family they are less-likely to have a learning disability (or psychological problems).
I'm sooo grateful he never taught me. Or any of my children.
He's right that many smaller and less resourced international schools don't hire a school pyschologist, but many of the larger ones have a learning support program and have one on staff.
Psyguy for some reason believes that school psychologists aren't primarily hired for learning support, and also thinks that just because someone is from a privileged family they are less-likely to have a learning disability (or psychological problems).
I'm sooo grateful he never taught me. Or any of my children.
Comment
Ahhhh, no I didnt. Just the opinion of another S.Psy. over inflating their need and value in an IS.
The problem with "many of the larger schools" is that there arent many large schools compared to the number of moderate and small sized schools. The large schools are either local/public native schools like large Chinese high schools or they are the small handful of top tier ISs, such as SAS. All of which i discussed in my previous post.
No LS/SEN dont typically include a S.Psy., LS/SEN departments are found in upper tier schools, SPED is expensive and most schools dont do it,a nd the ones that do the counselor is the point person on the SEN/LS team. They dont employ a full time S.Psy. Typically the SPED team simply includes the outside/third . report of the mental health/psychologist in the students review, but its just like a medical report from a medical profession, in that it comes from outside the schools organization.
No, i dont think that coming prom affluent and privileged background provides an immunity for LD or ED problems, but those families have resources to address and compensate for those issues. Parents dont have to rely on a school counselor or S.Psy. for mental health care they pay a professional outside the school to provide that care and those services. Those families can afford a wide variety of treatment, and treatment that is effective.
Parents that cant afford those types of mental health and medical services cant afford private (independent) schools, and dont send their children to them. ISs dont enroll and admit students who cant pay the tuition bill.
The problem with "many of the larger schools" is that there arent many large schools compared to the number of moderate and small sized schools. The large schools are either local/public native schools like large Chinese high schools or they are the small handful of top tier ISs, such as SAS. All of which i discussed in my previous post.
No LS/SEN dont typically include a S.Psy., LS/SEN departments are found in upper tier schools, SPED is expensive and most schools dont do it,a nd the ones that do the counselor is the point person on the SEN/LS team. They dont employ a full time S.Psy. Typically the SPED team simply includes the outside/third . report of the mental health/psychologist in the students review, but its just like a medical report from a medical profession, in that it comes from outside the schools organization.
No, i dont think that coming prom affluent and privileged background provides an immunity for LD or ED problems, but those families have resources to address and compensate for those issues. Parents dont have to rely on a school counselor or S.Psy. for mental health care they pay a professional outside the school to provide that care and those services. Those families can afford a wide variety of treatment, and treatment that is effective.
Parents that cant afford those types of mental health and medical services cant afford private (independent) schools, and dont send their children to them. ISs dont enroll and admit students who cant pay the tuition bill.
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interteach
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
I'm not a school psychologist. And your term "SPED" is wildly out of date and considered an insult. Like for more than a couple of decades.
School psychologists in most schools, international or otherwise, primarily work with students with learning disabilities. This negates most of what you have to say.
It would be ironically amusing that your handle is "PsyGuy" and that you have such limited knowledge of school psychologists were it not for your outdated information and typically discriminatory and offensive positions.
School psychologists in most schools, international or otherwise, primarily work with students with learning disabilities. This negates most of what you have to say.
It would be ironically amusing that your handle is "PsyGuy" and that you have such limited knowledge of school psychologists were it not for your outdated information and typically discriminatory and offensive positions.
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interteach
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
Comment
@interteach
SPED is an insult to who? Yes, its outdated, but its also the most understood among educators both in and out of SEN and those experienced and inexperienced. the newest terms for LS=Learning Diversity and SEN=Inclusive Education.
S.Psys dont "work with" students, they may mett with, assess, diagnose, etc, but "work with" no they dont those tasks are performed by SPED teachers.
Again, most ISs (aside from the ltop tier ISs) dont have SPED programs or they have SPED "lite", and then its only the largest schools, as they just dont have the workload to justify a FTE S.Psy.
SPED is an insult to who? Yes, its outdated, but its also the most understood among educators both in and out of SEN and those experienced and inexperienced. the newest terms for LS=Learning Diversity and SEN=Inclusive Education.
S.Psys dont "work with" students, they may mett with, assess, diagnose, etc, but "work with" no they dont those tasks are performed by SPED teachers.
Again, most ISs (aside from the ltop tier ISs) dont have SPED programs or they have SPED "lite", and then its only the largest schools, as they just dont have the workload to justify a FTE S.Psy.
Re: School psychologists hired at international schools?
[quote="andybaxley86"]Hello all. I am curious to know if international schools hire school psychologists. If so, what functions do they generally tend to serve? Are psychologists and counselors interchangeabe, or do schools hire both? Many thanks![/quote]
I am a SP and have been hired as such. As you know SP's and Counselors positions are NOT interchangeable. A SP can fulfill all of a counselors role, however it is not the same in reverse. I am a full cycle SP and love it. I do all that I did in the states. Hope that helps. I would ignore the other guy...
I am a SP and have been hired as such. As you know SP's and Counselors positions are NOT interchangeable. A SP can fulfill all of a counselors role, however it is not the same in reverse. I am a full cycle SP and love it. I do all that I did in the states. Hope that helps. I would ignore the other guy...
@PsychBean
This depends greatly ont he tasking requirments of the school. If the position consists of student management duties then a counselor can do the job just as well (and in many cases better) then a SP. Even in a position focused on the mental health aspect, the availability of instruments is much easier outside the USA and a counselor given the proper training or study depending on the instrument involved can certainly administer and score a psychometric. In regards to therapy and intervention depending on the preparation program both counselors and SPs are equally effective.
Most SPs just want to feel special, and just because they do all the tasks they did in the States doesnt convey a license to practice in their host country. Full time SPs are considered educational support staff, they are brought in with educator visas/status not medical visas/status.
This depends greatly ont he tasking requirments of the school. If the position consists of student management duties then a counselor can do the job just as well (and in many cases better) then a SP. Even in a position focused on the mental health aspect, the availability of instruments is much easier outside the USA and a counselor given the proper training or study depending on the instrument involved can certainly administer and score a psychometric. In regards to therapy and intervention depending on the preparation program both counselors and SPs are equally effective.
Most SPs just want to feel special, and just because they do all the tasks they did in the States doesnt convey a license to practice in their host country. Full time SPs are considered educational support staff, they are brought in with educator visas/status not medical visas/status.