Having gone through a few interviews with Chinese schools now, I am surprised to hear from at least two of them that it is their practice to bring the teacher over on a tourist visa and then only do the work visa paperwork once there.
Maybe I'm a big chicken, but since I'll be coming with children, the thought of that is a bit scary to me. Others who have worked/are currently working in China - what has been your experience? I'd really prefer to have the work visa secured before I enter the country, but by the same token I do not want to appear unreasonable.
Work visa in China
Reply
it depends on a lot of factors. Technially you need a work visa (a Z visa) before you leave, but China is a culture where how things are supposed to happen and how they actually happen, have a bigger gap between what your used to in the west. China is one of the few countries that doesnt issue a landing visa (meaning a tourist visa on arrival). This means a school has to secure you a visa from one of two places: the local immigration section of the PSB or the consular section of your Consulate/Embassy at home. Many of the smaller less prestigious/established schools simply have a better relationship with their local immigration section then the overseas mission. Second its a lot of work, and expense especially for dependents.
that being said, there are people/teachers who after arriving on their tourist visa had their job disappear. In some cases the school required a modification to the contract the teacher wouldnt agree too (enrollment dropped). In other instances the school over hired. In some cases the school just couldnt get a work visa. These are more endemic of lower tier schools. An upper tier school will have no issue, and with kids/ a family it would not be unreasonable to require proper visas before departure. if the school balks at this, given your situation consider what it means as far as the schools general business practices.
that being said, there are people/teachers who after arriving on their tourist visa had their job disappear. In some cases the school required a modification to the contract the teacher wouldnt agree too (enrollment dropped). In other instances the school over hired. In some cases the school just couldnt get a work visa. These are more endemic of lower tier schools. An upper tier school will have no issue, and with kids/ a family it would not be unreasonable to require proper visas before departure. if the school balks at this, given your situation consider what it means as far as the schools general business practices.
I'm moving to China this summer and my school does a temporary work visa to start us off. They are extremely thorough in the information and process for getting the right visa. That being said, the visa information in the handbook does note that some people need to arrive with a different type of visa, so maybe depending on where you are coming from, it's easier to start with a tourist visa?
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jstwatchin
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Re: Reply
[quote="PsyGuy"]
that being said, there are people/teachers who after arriving on their tourist visa had their job disappear. In some cases the school required a modification to the contract the teacher wouldnt agree too (enrollment dropped). In other instances the school over hired. In some cases the school just couldnt get a work visa. These are more endemic of lower tier schools. An upper tier school will have no issue, and with kids/ a family it would not be unreasonable to require proper visas before departure. if the school balks at this, given your situation consider what it means as far as the schools general business practices.[/quote]
Exactly! This happened to a local teacher-friend of mine. She went to China two years ago, contract in hand, then was back three weeks later when her school told her she was not needed after all. I would like to think of her case as exceptional, but don't want to end up being the case that proves the rule.
that being said, there are people/teachers who after arriving on their tourist visa had their job disappear. In some cases the school required a modification to the contract the teacher wouldnt agree too (enrollment dropped). In other instances the school over hired. In some cases the school just couldnt get a work visa. These are more endemic of lower tier schools. An upper tier school will have no issue, and with kids/ a family it would not be unreasonable to require proper visas before departure. if the school balks at this, given your situation consider what it means as far as the schools general business practices.[/quote]
Exactly! This happened to a local teacher-friend of mine. She went to China two years ago, contract in hand, then was back three weeks later when her school told her she was not needed after all. I would like to think of her case as exceptional, but don't want to end up being the case that proves the rule.
I wouldn't feel great about doing that. It would make me wonder about the kind of school that was hiring me.
Our school arranged Z visas (work visas) for us. They sent us letters employment, which we took to the consulate. Within a week of arriving, we got our residence permits, which is what allows you to leave and enter the country easily.
@txteach: What do you mean, a temporary work visa? There is no temporary work visa. The Z visa is the only work visa. Do you mean they're bringing you over on a 6 month business visa?
@jstwatching: By Chinese schools, do you mean real international schools in China or local Chinese schools calling themselves international? There is a world of difference, especially in how business matters are handles. If it's a local Chinese school, many of them bring people over on tourist visas and your contract won't be worth the paper it's printed on. If it's an actual international school, I would question why they can't arrange a Z visa for you.
Our school arranged Z visas (work visas) for us. They sent us letters employment, which we took to the consulate. Within a week of arriving, we got our residence permits, which is what allows you to leave and enter the country easily.
@txteach: What do you mean, a temporary work visa? There is no temporary work visa. The Z visa is the only work visa. Do you mean they're bringing you over on a 6 month business visa?
@jstwatching: By Chinese schools, do you mean real international schools in China or local Chinese schools calling themselves international? There is a world of difference, especially in how business matters are handles. If it's a local Chinese school, many of them bring people over on tourist visas and your contract won't be worth the paper it's printed on. If it's an actual international school, I would question why they can't arrange a Z visa for you.
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higgsboson
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I'm going to China in August for my 4th assignment and each time its been different. This time around, for example, the school is requiring me to get a health check in the States before they send me the letter of invitation I'll need to get the Z-visa. The last time I worked in China, I arrived with a tourist visa and had the health check done after arrival.
Make sure they take you to the local police statin within like 48hours of arrival to register you or there could be consequences, esp if you arrive on a tourist visa. On my first stint in China, the school did not take me until a few weeks after my arrival and they had to pay a fine on the spot. Of course, they looked at me like it was my fault.
As far as showing up and not having a job, its a real possibility. And if you have paid for your ticket in advance, tough luck. This is an example of when you should really have TWO jobs lined up. This way if the school in China does screw you over, you will have a fall back position.
Again, do them before they do you!!
Make sure they take you to the local police statin within like 48hours of arrival to register you or there could be consequences, esp if you arrive on a tourist visa. On my first stint in China, the school did not take me until a few weeks after my arrival and they had to pay a fine on the spot. Of course, they looked at me like it was my fault.
As far as showing up and not having a job, its a real possibility. And if you have paid for your ticket in advance, tough luck. This is an example of when you should really have TWO jobs lined up. This way if the school in China does screw you over, you will have a fall back position.
Again, do them before they do you!!
Hi. Not meaning to over-simplify, but I do not think this is very uncommon or a big deal. It does perhaps make you more vulnerable, but the HR people, good or bad, know the system and how to work it. It comes down to trust. People who have been burned are right to howl about it, but you need to be able to trust your employers. And they need to be able to trust you.
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higgsboson
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grumpy said: [quote]It comes down to trust. People who have been burned are right to howl about it, but you need to be able to trust your employers. And they need to be able to trust you.[/quote]
Famous last words.
When it comes to money, trust no one and protect yourself AT ALL TIMES! Signing two contracts to have a fall back position is one way to protect yourself.
If you arrive in China on a tourist visa and the school has no job for you, there is literally nothing you can do. You can't even go to the parents because they don't know you. What will you do? Hope for the best?
Famous last words.
When it comes to money, trust no one and protect yourself AT ALL TIMES! Signing two contracts to have a fall back position is one way to protect yourself.
If you arrive in China on a tourist visa and the school has no job for you, there is literally nothing you can do. You can't even go to the parents because they don't know you. What will you do? Hope for the best?
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higgsboson
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:13 am
The "Grumpster"whines:[quote]Signing two contracts is unethical. Seems there are sleazy people on both sides of the equation to me.[/quote]
You just can't win with old codgers like grumpster. For example, I have child support payments to make. Lets say I show up in China for job having done evereything ethically and above board only to find that my job no longer existed. Of course without a job, I can't make child support payments. I guarantee you it would be the moralizing likes of a grumpster who would be first to tag me a dead beat dad.
To be honest, I have signed two contracts for next year, I've signed THREE! If the job in China doesn't pan out, I'll have TWO fall back positions and I will if nothing else be on time with my child support payments.
You just can't win with old codgers like grumpster. For example, I have child support payments to make. Lets say I show up in China for job having done evereything ethically and above board only to find that my job no longer existed. Of course without a job, I can't make child support payments. I guarantee you it would be the moralizing likes of a grumpster who would be first to tag me a dead beat dad.
To be honest, I have signed two contracts for next year, I've signed THREE! If the job in China doesn't pan out, I'll have TWO fall back positions and I will if nothing else be on time with my child support payments.
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interteach
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wrldtrvlr123
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- Location: Japan
Re: Work visa in China
[quote="jstwatchin"]Having gone through a few interviews with Chinese schools now, I am surprised to hear from at least two of them that it is their practice to bring the teacher over on a tourist visa and then only do the work visa paperwork once there.
Maybe I'm a big chicken, but since I'll be coming with children, the thought of that is a bit scary to me. Others who have worked/are currently working in China - what has been your experience? I'd really prefer to have the work visa secured before I enter the country, but by the same token I do not want to appear unreasonable.[/quote]
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Speaking of the schools in Beijing, this would be very unusual and probably illegal. I don't believe any of the more established/reputable schools in Beijing would do this and I would consider it a big red flag (speaking from personal experience of how a number of schools operate).
Maybe I'm a big chicken, but since I'll be coming with children, the thought of that is a bit scary to me. Others who have worked/are currently working in China - what has been your experience? I'd really prefer to have the work visa secured before I enter the country, but by the same token I do not want to appear unreasonable.[/quote]
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Speaking of the schools in Beijing, this would be very unusual and probably illegal. I don't believe any of the more established/reputable schools in Beijing would do this and I would consider it a big red flag (speaking from personal experience of how a number of schools operate).