Fair Prep Bangkok/London/Boston

[Thames Pirate]

You probably understand better than most why Bangkok is such a popular recruitment fair destination.

In all seriousness, yes, it is an expense, but it is the cost of doing business. It really does streamline things for schools hiring for 7 positions. If you figure 5 candidates per job, that is 35 interviews to schedule (assuming only one interview per person per job). Setting them up takes 3 emails each. That is a lot of energy spent setting up interviews for a partial look at candidates. It costs a lot of money to hire a teacher by the time you factor in things like travel, shipping, settling in allowances, etc. The cost of the fairs is minimal compared to a bad investment in getting a crummy teacher, particularly when you factor in the impact of that teacher on the staff, students, etc.

Honestly, you don't think a recruiter will know that you have a cheat sheet for common questions? Or, if you had something specific about the school in mind before the interview, do you really think he/she will mind a glance at a question you had written down? It really isn't hard to tailor your answers to what the school and recruiter want if you have paid attention to the specific school, but more importantly, if you can read the recruiter. I have a cheatsheet to match names and faces to schools and jobs and with relevant information about schools, yes. But a quick glance at it before an interview is sufficient. It is mainly meant for pre-interview networking. So for a few notes about the school to look over before an interview, sure, a cheatsheet is great. But for the common questions, it will hurt you more than help you to have one. Now, the act of prepping one will help you, particularly if you hand write it, but if you actually need a cheat sheet to have a handy example of differentiation or to answer questions about curriculum or collaboration, then I'd say you have bigger fish to fry.

I do understand what you are saying about toxic atmosphere. There is a lot of negative energy that goes with being in a room full of anxious and stressed people. This is one reason people often recommend getting a room at the hotel--it gives you a place to which you can retreat, watch some TV, order room service, take a nap, or curse admin. Or you can write all your thank you notes there instead of in the lounge. We didn't find the vibe cut-throat, though--perhaps because there were so many schools and so many teachers that we didn't really interact with people who were competing for our target jobs. I'm sure they were there, but we didn't interact with them. We tried instead to make it into a positive experience--talking to people to hear about their good and bad experiences (learning red flags, seeing which schools to avoid, what is life really like in this place, etc.), looking through brochures to see how schools marketed themselves, etc. We also took some time "off," leaving the hotel entirely one evening to go watch a football match at a local pub in London, planning dinner with friends in the city before the fair, etc.

Yes, elements of the fair suck. I am not disagreeing with that. I am just saying that to work some schools, they are a necessary evil. For many teachers, they present an opportunity to make a good impression that a paper resume might not make.

[joe30]

I understand that Bangkok is a nice destination for a holiday. I understand it's a nice place to live. But the fair doesn't take place in the holiday season, so it's not like you can combine your trip into a holiday (which would be acceptable). No, you're getting on a 10+ hour flight (if you live in Europe or America), spending 2 days there, then getting another 10 hour flight back home because you have to be back at work. That's a ton of time spent on an aeroplane and a lot of expense to have a very similar experience to that which could be arranged on Skype.

I can't think of many other jobs where a 'cost of doing business' is a $500+ flight to attend an interview outside of maybe board level exec positions. You say it's a cost of doing business, but that cost is far too high both in terms of time and money, especially when many schools are happy with a Skype interview.

The reason one might have a cheat sheet for a question like 'give me an example of when you differentiated in the classroom' is to ensure you put in everything you possible want to say, rather than cursing yourself for missing something out later. Or alternatively, because you're lying - and a cheat sheet enables you to get your story straight beforehand.

Let's face it, interviews aren't particularly pleasant things. Let's say you're sitting in front of the recruiter for your dream school/location - there's a lot on the line at this point, and what you say in the next few minutes could be the difference between your dream getting realised or spending another year in some crap country. Having multiple interviews in a single day is sure to get you stressed out unless you're totally bombproof mentally (most people aren't). Yeah sure you could get a room at the hotel, but that doesn't really compare to skype, when as soon as you press the hang up button, it's over, and you can go about the rest of your day.

In fact, that brings me to another great benefit of Skype - if the interview is going really badly, you can just hang up and insta-block them, which removes you from that awkward situation. In a face to face you've got to grind it out.

[global_nomad]

Call me cynical but I believe that the reason some Administrators prefer job fairs is because they consider the traveling a nice job perk that they enjoy. Yes, they need to interview candidates but they also network/catch up with old friends, stay in nice hotels, eat good meals, do a little sight-seeing, and get away from the routines of their normal work day all on their school's dime. I've worked with Admin. who seem to never miss an opportunity to leave school on a trip whether it be for recruiting, PD, Assessment team visits, etc. Ironically, these same Administrators are usually "too busy" to attend overnight class trips or anything of that nature. Lol

Not all Administrators are like this, of course, but some are from my experience. And obviously, job fairs are the life-blood of organizations like Search and ISS, so they are in no hurry to have them replaced by virtual fairs or whatever.

[Overhere]

You may be right, but personally I can't think of many things less enjoyable than what I envision recruiting to be like.

[shadowjack]

LOL Joe30 - for international educators the fair DOES take place right at the end of the holiday season. It basically is the first few days back after break. If you are teaching internationally, your contract usually stipulates between 3 to 5 (or more, depending on years of service) days off to recruit.

[shadowjack]

The other thing to consider is that nobody is forcing you to go to a fair... just saying...

[Thames Pirate]

Joe:

Actually, for Bangkok at least, it's sometimes easy to tie it in to the winter break. We lucked out with the way London fell last year--there was no additional time off work to leave a few days early due to local holidays, so we tied in a vacation (and the hotel is right across from the Museum of Natural History and near lots of other cool stuff in London--which, incidentally, also has amazing food). The fairs last longer than 2 days. You also point out the cost for "an interview," but you are again looking at it from a candidate's perspective; the fairs are for the convenience of the recruiter, not the candidate (though they do offer candidates perks--access to a lot of recruiters in person, consolidation of interviews, networking, chance to research schools in a different way, some travel if you're lucky). But again, if it isn't your scene as a candidate, it's certainly not unreasonable to opt not to do it.

As for recruiters, they get the "perks of travel" as global_nomad mentioned. Furthermore, they can talk to each other--get insight into candidates directly from their current employers, etc.

A cheat sheet is well and good if you are that desperate, but if you have any sort of experience and competence, you will be able to answer it with just a few moments of think time, especially if you have thought about it before. A good recruiter will also phrase it in a different way to throw you off a potential cheat sheet. They can also usually tell if you are lying or might ask follow ups. I am not saying don't use a cheat sheet--that is your choice. I am saying that a good recruiter can tell if you need one, even via Skype, and will prefer a candidate who takes a moment to collect his/her thoughts and answers honestly to one who needs a written reminder of what lesson plan bombed and how they fixed it. I am saying that this might be yet another reason recruiters prefer the in-person nature of a fair to Skype.

Yes, fairs are stressful. The good news is that recruiters know that (they're often a bit stressed as well). But here again, they can see how you are under pressure; if you crack at a fair, how will you be when the situation in the country destabilises or there is a fire alarm in the middle of a science lab experiment involving chemicals or a kid freaks out and starts throwing chairs or whatever else may happen? This is YET ANOTHER reason recruiters prefer fairs. They get a much better look at the candidate.

I can see why you prefer Skype; again, that is your choice. Nobody is saying you should go to a fair (and if a fair only plays to your weaknesses and doesn't help you, why would you?); you asked why schools don't just go with Skype, and I am pointing out the myriad benefits to the recruiter.


Overhere:

Recruiting probably isn't fun, but the change of routine, the travel, the ability to socialise with true peers (other school leaders--let's face it, the social dynamic is different than with teachers, who at least have each other), and the "get it over with" consolidation probably make it easier.

Global_nomad:

Totally agree.

[Thames Pirate]

Joe, have you considered the ISS iFairs? I don't know much about them, but it seems to be a consolidated Skype date--lots of recruiters agree to be online on their platform at a specific date/time, and you can message and even Skype instantly with them. It might be more your speed. Then you could target your individual schools that are not attending, but more efficiently get the contacts/interviews done for a lot of schools at once (and still have all your Skype benefits with cheat sheet, ability to click out, and not having to travel).

Just a thought.

[joe30]

The Bangkok fair this year is taking place on January 8th-11th. Would have thought most people would be back at work by then, but maybe there's a lucky few who aren't. If you can just tack it onto the end of a long holiday that makes the cost-benefit a lot better but I'm not convinced that'll be the case for most people. Certainly the London fair on January 13th-16th will be at a time when most people are back at work and no one would go to London for a long vacation anyway.

Yes, I'm looking at it from the candidates perspective. Any employer expecting an interviewee to pay $500 travel expenses for the privilege of attending an interview is way out of line, IMO. Especially given we're not talking about board level roles with mid 6 figure salaries here.

There's no reason a school cannot email the principal of your current school to discuss your candidacy.

I don't think deliberately putting candidates under pressure to 'test' them is all that commendable, and the type of stress involved from attending a fair (or any group based recruitment event for any company) is very different from the stress involved when a fire alarn goes off, or when you're finding aspects of living in a country to be challenging. There's something very toxic about putting a bunch of people all after the same jobs in a room together, and then essentially telling them to compete against each other.

I'd consider attending a virtual fair, and that's the far better way to go. Saves everyone a bunch of time and money, and lowers stress levels.

[Thames Pirate]

You asked why. I gave you lots of reasons. Since the recruiters run the game, we have to either play by their rules or make them like our way of playing. Schools rarely require fair attendance. They are just more likely to go with the face that is in front of them over the unknown name on a CV. It's a risk you run. So until the downsides of the fair model outweigh the benefits for recruiters, they are likely to remain a critical fixture.

Many of the higher paying/better schools go to the fairs. Many also allow a few days for recruiting. And while you are right there is no reason a school can't email or call your current admin or references, there are benefits to doing it in person.

Fairs aren't about deliberately putting candidates under pressure. They do create the environments that leads to pressure, but it isn't cultivated. Candidate nerves take care of that, and that's on the candidates.

Also, you are rarely competing with tons of people for the same jobs. Usually only a handful--and you'd be competing against them anyway. You might not even ever see them. See my previous point about candidate nerves creating the pressure.

[counselme]

Most of the fairs are held during school session, which is often impossible for teachers to get the time off to attend unless they are relatively local and can be reached over a long weekend. Even if ones' contract allows a few days off to attend, they are often a long way off and very costly. Perhaps the fairs should be held during usual Christmas holidays and then summer holidays for last minute hires so that teachers can travel and attend at their leisure. I haven't attended a fair before, so I don't know much about what they are like. From reading and listening to others, they don't sound appealing. I seem to recall that 50% of candidates walk away without a job. That would be quite deflating compared to an unsuccessful Skype interview in ones' home. I am sure that many a great candidate has never attended a fair. Seems that jobs advertised on the main IT recruitment websites are dropped daily before the fairs are on. That seems to suggest that recruiters are already hiring before the fair and selecting presumably good candidates. I've had recruiters schedule a Skype interview with me while at the fair! I wouldn't attend a fair. When I am on holiday, I don't want to be carrying fine clothes and anticipating interviews and trying not to mix up and memorise each schools' "special mission and vision".
Getting an international job is a bit like a dating game: we're all going to kiss a few frogs before the prince sees our beauty and going to the ball is not necessarily any better than trying online :)
I think that Skype and confidential referencing works well for many candidates.

[counselme]

Thames Pirate. I like the idea that ISS has: the virtual fair. Maybe that is the compromise and the way of the future.

Happy New Year.

[Thames Pirate]

As I said, fairs are for the convenience of the recruiters, not the candidates. Those recruiters are not going to want to head to a fair over the holidays.

Yes, a lot of candidates walk away without a job, but often that is because they were picky or were simply unqualified--or, more likely, they got the ball rolling (contacts, first interviews) and got an offer afterwards. Remember, the school pays a finder's fee to the agency for anyone hired through them, so they might play it cagey and not hire someone only to contact them separately later, for example.

Yes, the jobs disappear regularly. Often that is a Skype hire. But it's just as common for it to be an "inside" hire with the job posted to comply with contracts and labor laws or someone changing their mind or whatever. Also, to get that Skype interview to compete with good candidates at the fair, you either need to be in a harder to fill position (higher level maths, for example) or have a stellar resume that stands out above the candidates at the fair.

A fair is what you make of it. Yes, there is some level of stress (again, a reason I would recommend a room at the hotel), but you don't need to memorise school visions or anything. I found that just the process of looking it up helped me, and a cheat sheet is something you can look over right before an interview while waiting in the hallway if you feel you need it. Often you don't. It's about what plays to YOUR strengths. Remember, if the fair is for the recruiter, it is up to you to make it work for you instead. It's the speed dating of the IT world--you are kissing all your frogs in one weekend.

Skype works well for candidates. It sometimes works well for recruiters. Sometimes it doesn't. The recruiter has the job, so their whims and conveniences are what matters. Do what works for you, but the fairs aren't going away just yet.

[wrldtrvlr123]

counselme wrote:
> Most of the fairs are held during school session, which is often impossible
> for teachers to get the time off to attend unless they are relatively local
> and can be reached over a long weekend. Even if ones' contract allows a few
> days off to attend, they are often a long way off and very costly. Perhaps
> the fairs should be held during usual Christmas holidays and then summer
> holidays for last minute hires so that teachers can travel and attend at
> their leisure. I haven't attended a fair before, so I don't know much about
> what they are like. From reading and listening to others, they don't sound
> appealing. I seem to recall that 50% of candidates walk away without a job.
> That would be quite deflating compared to an unsuccessful Skype interview
> in ones' home. I am sure that many a great candidate has never attended a
> fair. Seems that jobs advertised on the main IT recruitment websites are
> dropped daily before the fairs are on. That seems to suggest that
> recruiters are already hiring before the fair and selecting presumably good
> candidates. I've had recruiters schedule a Skype interview with me while at
> the fair! I wouldn't attend a fair. When I am on holiday, I don't want to
> be carrying fine clothes and anticipating interviews and trying not to mix
> up and memorise each schools' "special mission and vision".
> Getting an international job is a bit like a dating game: we're all going
> to kiss a few frogs before the prince sees our beauty and going to the ball
> is not necessarily any better than trying online :)
> I think that Skype and confidential referencing works well for many
> candidates.
================
I have found fairs to be fairly unpleasant AND we have not had much luck in securing jobs through that type of venue (1/3). On the other hand, it's basically a numbers game. It is very difficult for most teachers to be short-listed for interview by a decent to great int'l school by emailing/applying and hoping to get a call/email back. Most applications go down a black hole and are never heard from a again.

Fairs offer a reasonable opportunity to essentially be short-listed (not quite the same thing but much closer then merely sending in an application) by as many as 10 schools that you might actually be interested in. That is a powerful opportunity but not for everyone. It would take a lot to get me back to a fair but if the need arose I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

[shadowjack]

Joe30, most international schools I know of where my friends work (and the one I am at) went back Monday the 9th. So for most teachers in many schools (maybe not the British or local nation system?) it does tie in with the end of holidays. So for winter break you went to Thailand. But even with that, my school would give me five days off with pay :-) to go to another fair, that might be further away. And the longer I am there, the more days I get, so I could even go to TWO fairs :-) with pay.

ISS is not as extensive or as good as Search. When Is started in international teaching, ISS was the gold standard. Now Search is. Even with Skype (and there have been many posts about this), recruiters like to meet and assess people in person. Skype is used for the initial interviews much more frequently, but for many (but not all) postings, the final meeting at the fair is required to get in the door.