"Blacklisted"
Sorry
Again, while heads talk to one another, that does not constitute a black list. Your just wrong, and any claim that their is some global black list that heads can access online or otherwise is just a myth. I don't advocate breaking contract, I advocate teachers doing what's in THEIR best interests, not the schools best interests. The reality is schools like ASIJ, ISB, WAB, SAS, etc, don't have to worry about runners, because people want to stay there and work there. Only the crummy schools, with poor management and resources, bennifit by perpetuating the myth that if you run "it will ruin your career".
I appreciate your contribution and participation, but oratory and rhetoric won't change what I know to be untrue. I realize you don't agree, and that's ok.
I appreciate your contribution and participation, but oratory and rhetoric won't change what I know to be untrue. I realize you don't agree, and that's ok.
So close
I was so ready for both of us to "let it go" and then you had to make one last jab. So im going to address your "sage advice":
First, im glad to see that youve moved from "a black list" to a simply addressing the potential issues of breaking contract, and pulling a runner (which are not entirely the same thing).
To begin with, who do you think are these teachers that are pulling the runners? You think they wake up one day in the middle of the year and just decide they want to be somewhere else? Teachers that run, do so because it is the option of last resort. They have done what they can to address the issues, and see no relief from whatever it is that is the problem. Its heads and admins at C-rap hole schools that foster this belief that teachers have to suffer.
If your school is one of those that has to contend with "runners" you would be strongly advised to address the cause and not figuring out clever ways of forcing teachers to stay.
Second, "staying for the kids", if the admin and school cared about the kids they wouldnt make the work environment so toxic that teachers felt like their only option was to leave. Teachers will put up with a lot for the kids, but no teacher should have to suffer for it. Just like those kids, we only get one go around at this thing called "life". To that end, a head knows when they have unhappy teachers, so even if they stick it out, the letter of reference is bound to be "less then stellar".
Third, Research is very important, and i strongly advocate doing as much as you can. Unfortunately just as i know lots of candidates who have no business being teachers, who can keep it together for a half hour interview, I know just as many admins who are sociopaths who can make their little circle of hades sound like a warm happy family. Most such admins are simply better liars then we are researchers. So what are we supposed to do when we get out smarted our lied too? Youd like to convince your staff that they have some obligation to follow through with the con (if a person steals your wallet, Im not obligated to let them keep it because they are a better thief then i am a good citizen). If you say you support your teachers, and you dont, that piece of paper you called a contract isnt going to be a very effective wall, to me running from your c-rap hole of a school. Its called acting in "good faith" misrepresenting yourself, your school, and deception by omission of manipulation is not cause or reason for me to "honor" the agreement or contract.
Fourth, while I dont think its a good idea to burn bridges, if again your and your school are that bad that i have to leave mid year, I cant see a lot of motivation for EVER wanting to work for you again anywhere. Thats part of the problem, bad heads get rotated among schools for a long time. Frankly I dont care WHERE your at, if your a nut job I dont want to be anywhere near you, and in the RARE likelihood that you reform yourself and do become a noble admin, you wouldnt hold it against me for leaving when you were a bad head. If you did, then your really not a better admin.
That said as I mentioned in the beginning there is a difference between breaking contract and pulling a runner. While pulling a runner is also breaking contract, breaking a contract strategically before the school term starts especially with this much time, if the spin is managed well, doesnt leave the school or "the kids" in a bind. They just hire someone else, and they havent even spent any real money on your hiring yet. Were talking two years of your life here, SMART people adapt and change when the environment and options change.
The who being dignified, and being honorable is quaint and even a little cute, but this is business, you dont find very many businesses or even schools doing "the right thing" when its against their interest to do so.
First, im glad to see that youve moved from "a black list" to a simply addressing the potential issues of breaking contract, and pulling a runner (which are not entirely the same thing).
To begin with, who do you think are these teachers that are pulling the runners? You think they wake up one day in the middle of the year and just decide they want to be somewhere else? Teachers that run, do so because it is the option of last resort. They have done what they can to address the issues, and see no relief from whatever it is that is the problem. Its heads and admins at C-rap hole schools that foster this belief that teachers have to suffer.
If your school is one of those that has to contend with "runners" you would be strongly advised to address the cause and not figuring out clever ways of forcing teachers to stay.
Second, "staying for the kids", if the admin and school cared about the kids they wouldnt make the work environment so toxic that teachers felt like their only option was to leave. Teachers will put up with a lot for the kids, but no teacher should have to suffer for it. Just like those kids, we only get one go around at this thing called "life". To that end, a head knows when they have unhappy teachers, so even if they stick it out, the letter of reference is bound to be "less then stellar".
Third, Research is very important, and i strongly advocate doing as much as you can. Unfortunately just as i know lots of candidates who have no business being teachers, who can keep it together for a half hour interview, I know just as many admins who are sociopaths who can make their little circle of hades sound like a warm happy family. Most such admins are simply better liars then we are researchers. So what are we supposed to do when we get out smarted our lied too? Youd like to convince your staff that they have some obligation to follow through with the con (if a person steals your wallet, Im not obligated to let them keep it because they are a better thief then i am a good citizen). If you say you support your teachers, and you dont, that piece of paper you called a contract isnt going to be a very effective wall, to me running from your c-rap hole of a school. Its called acting in "good faith" misrepresenting yourself, your school, and deception by omission of manipulation is not cause or reason for me to "honor" the agreement or contract.
Fourth, while I dont think its a good idea to burn bridges, if again your and your school are that bad that i have to leave mid year, I cant see a lot of motivation for EVER wanting to work for you again anywhere. Thats part of the problem, bad heads get rotated among schools for a long time. Frankly I dont care WHERE your at, if your a nut job I dont want to be anywhere near you, and in the RARE likelihood that you reform yourself and do become a noble admin, you wouldnt hold it against me for leaving when you were a bad head. If you did, then your really not a better admin.
That said as I mentioned in the beginning there is a difference between breaking contract and pulling a runner. While pulling a runner is also breaking contract, breaking a contract strategically before the school term starts especially with this much time, if the spin is managed well, doesnt leave the school or "the kids" in a bind. They just hire someone else, and they havent even spent any real money on your hiring yet. Were talking two years of your life here, SMART people adapt and change when the environment and options change.
The who being dignified, and being honorable is quaint and even a little cute, but this is business, you dont find very many businesses or even schools doing "the right thing" when its against their interest to do so.
Humm
The school i did a runner from is well burried and even if it wasnt, Ive since long moved on. Usually when people resort to ad hominem attacks, its because they consider their position too weak to withstand debate.
You must be desperate as Im sure you know you cant prove a negative. No one can prove something didnt happen or doesnt exist. Being last or writing the most doesnt make me right, being right makes me right. There is no global black list. You are of course welcome to "prove" me wrong, just post the web address, or provide a link and that would settle the issue Im sure.
I have a very strong sense of ethics, and I have an inner compass, that knows its true north. Dont confuse MY ethics though with your ethics. But please if your ready to drop this silly notion of an International teacher black list, please feel free to refrain from commenting.
You must be desperate as Im sure you know you cant prove a negative. No one can prove something didnt happen or doesnt exist. Being last or writing the most doesnt make me right, being right makes me right. There is no global black list. You are of course welcome to "prove" me wrong, just post the web address, or provide a link and that would settle the issue Im sure.
I have a very strong sense of ethics, and I have an inner compass, that knows its true north. Dont confuse MY ethics though with your ethics. But please if your ready to drop this silly notion of an International teacher black list, please feel free to refrain from commenting.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Humm
[quote="PsyGuy"]The school i did a runner from is well burried and even if it wasnt, Ive since long moved on. Usually when people resort to ad hominem attacks, its because they consider their position too weak to withstand debate.
You must be desperate as Im sure you know you cant prove a negative. No one can prove something didnt happen or doesnt exist. Being last or writing the most doesnt make me right, being right makes me right. There is no global black list. You are of course welcome to "prove" me wrong, just post the web address, or provide a link and that would settle the issue Im sure.
I have a very strong sense of ethics, and I have an inner compass, that knows its true north. Dont confuse MY ethics though with your ethics. But please if your ready to drop this silly notion of an International teacher black list, please feel free to refrain from commenting.[/quote]
Not to stir the pot, but...
I have an open mind on the subject and could be convinced either way. Yes, it sounds like a myth, but I have heard references from people that have more inside info. than I ever will.
I do find it amusing that you think you are right umm, because you are right. No you can't prove a negative, but you also can't logically rule something out, 100%, simply because you have not encountered it, and/or it doesn't ring true to you. Well, obviously you CAN, but that doesn't make it logical or reasonable to other people.
As for ethics, they are notoriously slippery and changeable. Short of actually causing someone harm, you can rationalize almost any course of action.
You must be desperate as Im sure you know you cant prove a negative. No one can prove something didnt happen or doesnt exist. Being last or writing the most doesnt make me right, being right makes me right. There is no global black list. You are of course welcome to "prove" me wrong, just post the web address, or provide a link and that would settle the issue Im sure.
I have a very strong sense of ethics, and I have an inner compass, that knows its true north. Dont confuse MY ethics though with your ethics. But please if your ready to drop this silly notion of an International teacher black list, please feel free to refrain from commenting.[/quote]
Not to stir the pot, but...
I have an open mind on the subject and could be convinced either way. Yes, it sounds like a myth, but I have heard references from people that have more inside info. than I ever will.
I do find it amusing that you think you are right umm, because you are right. No you can't prove a negative, but you also can't logically rule something out, 100%, simply because you have not encountered it, and/or it doesn't ring true to you. Well, obviously you CAN, but that doesn't make it logical or reasonable to other people.
As for ethics, they are notoriously slippery and changeable. Short of actually causing someone harm, you can rationalize almost any course of action.
Because
LOL, do you all wear cloaks, and get a secret decoder ring?
Such information and database doesnt exist.
Ive heard the rumors myself but thats all they are is rumors. Ive listed the rationales for why it doesnt exist but the biggest one is that there are 3,324 IB schools in the world alone, and 3 people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. If there was such a blacklist it wouldnt be rumor, it would have been exposed a long time ago. There would have been articles on it, and expose's. It would also be sued into oblivion by the many unions and labor ministries. How would this "secret society" (which it would have to be), indoctrinate new members when a new admin becomes head? What do they get some mysterious email with their login information in it? Its like the men in black, it cant be disproven but a lack of proof is not proof in itself.
Such information and database doesnt exist.
Ive heard the rumors myself but thats all they are is rumors. Ive listed the rationales for why it doesnt exist but the biggest one is that there are 3,324 IB schools in the world alone, and 3 people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. If there was such a blacklist it wouldnt be rumor, it would have been exposed a long time ago. There would have been articles on it, and expose's. It would also be sued into oblivion by the many unions and labor ministries. How would this "secret society" (which it would have to be), indoctrinate new members when a new admin becomes head? What do they get some mysterious email with their login information in it? Its like the men in black, it cant be disproven but a lack of proof is not proof in itself.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Because
[quote="PsyGuy"]Because such information and database doesnt exist.[/quote]
And you know this because you've seen every database and piece of information related to int'l school teaching...in the universe..and didn't find it? Good to know! I feel relieved.
And you know this because you've seen every database and piece of information related to int'l school teaching...in the universe..and didn't find it? Good to know! I feel relieved.
Course
There is no more valid rational then my own experience. I pulled a big time runner 6 years ago, and it hasnt stoped or impeded me in the least. What was i the "one that got away", "slipped through the cracks"? Next think you know they will be talking about vampires that live among us and sparkle in the sunlight, oh wait that stories already been done and you know what they both have in common? They are both in the fiction section.
But since were talking about it, yes I have scryed and seen EVERY international teaching document in the world, Im a member of an elite agency as part of the united nations and i can declare without a doubt that there is no such thing as a global blacklist.
But since were talking about it, yes I have scryed and seen EVERY international teaching document in the world, Im a member of an elite agency as part of the united nations and i can declare without a doubt that there is no such thing as a global blacklist.