Vaccination and other issues.

[shadowjack]

As I watch the postings on Search, this is very common for schools to ask if you have been vaccinated. And very common will be, prior to arrival, asking for proof of vaccination.

I am not sure why it is grotesque at all?

[shawanda]

It's very clarifying to know that, for all the talk here, most of the posters on this forum are the same. You're sheep. If you were born in the US in 1820, you would have been all good with slavery because having slaves "is just the right of landowners." If you were born in Germany in 1900, you would have been fine with the Jews being slowly but surely turned into second class citizens and then not citizens at all, because, "it's just the right of private businesses to determine who to let enter," yada, yada, yada.

Lord, I know y'all need to make money, but I didn't know y'all are so craven and cowardly. There is right and wrong, and you are on the wrong side. Should Search add an HIV+ or HIV- yes or no question? What about a TB dropdown menu? And why does it seem those vaccinated are the most scared of the be C-19? Shouldn't the unvaccinated be? Better yet, maybe Search should add a "Morbidly Obese - Yes or No" question or a "Diabetic - Yes or No" question because we all know that such conditions are the largest risk factor of getting very ill with this C-19.

Where does it end once this begins? That's my point. Where the history teachers at? You either don't know your history or you don't care because nobody is coming for you - yet. But, just wait. You let this happen to others, it eventually happens to you. Stand up for what's right. All educators shouldn't be cowards. The way things are going, that's how it will be and I'll just start me my own business before I lower myself to this level.

Sending love to all you - you need it!

[PsyGuy]

@shawanda

Racist hyperbole aside.

No, theres nothing craven or cowardly about providing COVID19 vaccination information, theres nothing wrong about it.
No, Not on the side of wrong either.
If a significant majority of the ministries responsible for issuing permits and visas to ITs require proof of negative HIV or TB, then yes that doesnt sound like a bad idea for an issue that can be resolved with a simple yes or no checkbox or drop down menu.
No, its a scary disease, vaccination provides immunity but not absolute immunity and as long as there is a holdout of enough human petrie-dishes for the vlrus to continue mutating the greater the probability of an escape viral mutation that our bodies swarm defense system does not recognize anymore.
No, because you cant transmit obesity by any transmission vector.
No, because you cant transmit diabetes by any transmission vector.
No, the largest risk factor is not being vaccinated.
It ends when enough of the vaccine refusers and deniers get vaccinated and the vlrus doesnt have a sufficient host population to mutate. Thats where it ends. Thats the point.
YES, bring the vaccine, let it happen, let all humans be inoculated. Thats whats right.
I really hope they do come, I REALLY, REALLY do, I hope they come with syringes of COVID19 vaccine and inject it into the un-vaccinated because its not a history teacher you need its a science teacher.

[wrldtrvlr123]

[quote=PsyGuy post_id=62193 time=1635393663 user_id=68047]
@shawanda

Racist hyperbole aside.

[/quote]

Actually, it's kind of hard to put it aside. And it tends to cancels out whatever good points might be hiding there (if any). It's never pretty, whatever the source and whoever the target.

[gotthetshirt]

Comparing a vaccination to slavery or persecution of the Jews in Germany is so out in left fields that it purely demonstrates you can't reason with the anti vax group.

[angelica1981]

Shawanda,

1. As a teacher, I find it 'grotesque' that I would be required to work in close proximity with a person who could be vaccinated but refuses. What gives you the right to endanger others in that way?

2. Some smaller schools like mine struggle to find coverage during the pandemic. Other teachers have to give up their planning. If you are unvaxxed and get sick, you will most likely be more ill and out for longer. Do you simply expect that other teachers should cover for you, or for the school to have to pay for someone to come in if they even can find cover?

3. Schools pay SEARCH for each individual teacher they hire. Do you expect a school to bypass other viable candidates as they interview you multiple times, pay SEARCH for the privilege, and then find out at the end that you are refusing to comply with a step necessary for obtaining a visa at all? What do you expect the school to do then: go back to SEARCH and pay to start the process again with someone else, perhaps too late to get a teacher in the country on time at that point?

[secondplace]

@shwanda - you're clearly a mentalist. And I don't mean the US understanding of that, I mean the Alan Partridge understanding...

- It's very clarifying to know that, for all the talk here, most of the posters on this forum are the same. You're sheep.

There's things I like to do. I can do those if I get a vaccine that protects me and others. My choice. Also your choice.

- Should Search add an HIV+ or HIV- yes or no question?

Perhaps, as this can be a factor that determine whether a country will let you in. Should the CCP not let in HIV+ people? It's really up to them.

On the plus side you've compelled @psyguy to be more concise and accurate, so well done on that.

Sending you love. And luck- as you're clearly going to need lots.

xx

[shadowjack]

shawanda wrote:
Better yet, maybe Search should
> add a "Morbidly Obese - Yes or No" question or a "Diabetic -
> Yes or No" question because we all know that such conditions are the
> largest risk factor of getting very ill with this C-19.


LOL - ALL the people (apart from one, who died) who have had COVID are not morbidly obese NOR diabetic. Sounds like someone is in an echo chamber echo chamber echo chamb ech cha e ch e c

[justme123]

I'm going to try my best to come at this topic from a different angle.

If you look at all the threads on ISR relating to covid and/or vaccines, you can see just how divisive this topic is. And that's just within the ISR community. I'm sure you all know how it is outside of ISR.

Instead of fighting and pointing fingers, I feel we all need to come together and support each other. There are people out there who want you divided and fighting within ourselves. We all know the saying "divide and conquer". Maybe instead we should all support each other and respect others decisions/ideas/beliefs. If you want to get vaccinated, get vaccinated. If not, then don't. But by arguing with each other we are giving those who want us divided exactly what they want.

I completely understand what the OP was saying and respect their thoughts. I too am not a fan of Search asking that question but understand a lot of schools are asking for visa purposes, and thus hiring someone unvaccinated is outside of their control.

Maybe, just maybe OP is right in their comments, or maybe they are nothing more then a crazy "conspiracy theorist". Either way as educators we should all be open minded enough to accept others thoughts and beliefs without all the name calling. If we can't be tolerant/understanding of others beliefs, how are we suppose to teach our students to be?

Sorry for my rambling...

[angelica1981]

justme123 wrote:
> I'm going to try my best to come at this topic from a different angle.
>
> If you look at all the threads on ISR relating to covid and/or vaccines,
> you can see just how divisive this topic is. And that's just within the
> ISR community. I'm sure you all know how it is outside of ISR.
>
> Instead of fighting and pointing fingers, I feel we all need to come
> together and support each other. There are people out there who want you
> divided and fighting within ourselves. We all know the saying "divide
> and conquer". Maybe instead we should all support each other and
> respect others decisions/ideas/beliefs. If you want to get vaccinated, get
> vaccinated. If not, then don't. But by arguing with each other we are
> giving those who want us divided exactly what they want.
>
> I completely understand what the OP was saying and respect their thoughts.
> I too am not a fan of Search asking that question but understand a lot of
> schools are asking for visa purposes, and thus hiring someone unvaccinated
> is outside of their control.
>
> Maybe, just maybe OP is right in their comments, or maybe they are nothing
> more then a crazy "conspiracy theorist". Either way as educators
> we should all be open minded enough to accept others thoughts and beliefs
> without all the name calling. If we can't be tolerant/understanding of
> others beliefs, how are we suppose to teach our students to be?
>
> Sorry for my rambling...

Either way as educators
> we should all be open minded enough to accept others thoughts and beliefs
> without all the name calling. If we can't be tolerant/understanding of
> others beliefs, how are we suppose to teach our students to be?

The issue is that the thoughts and beliefs of anti-vaxxers have potentially serious health implications for the rest of us. Being open minded doesn't mean accepting every idea without critique. There is another word for that.

At some point, we need to be able to speak up when we see others behaving or spreading misinformation that is of harm to the community. Some of my students have vulnerable or elderly family members at home. I don't think it is OK to 'open mindedly' accept without comment the fact that some teachers refuse be vaccinated.

[justme123]

In response to @angelica1981...

Can we stop labeling people who for a myriad of reasons don't want to get the Covid-19 vaccine as "anti-vaxx"? The term is nothing more than rubbish from the media (not your friends) as a way of us vs. them.

Also, as this is all (relatively) new (being the vaccine is less than a year old), how do we know it works? Or that those without it are more "dangerous" than those with it? Is it possible the real threat are those with the jab?

I have no problem saying that maybe those without the vaccine are a threat....or maybe they're not. I just don't understand how so many people seem sure that those without the covid vaccine are the problem when this is all so new.

This is me playing devils advocate...

[angelica1981]

justme123 wrote:
> In response to @angelica1981...
>
> Can we stop labeling people who for a myriad of reasons don't want to get
> the Covid-19 vaccine as "anti-vaxx"? The term is nothing more
> than rubbish from the media (not your friends) as a way of us vs. them.
>
> Also, as this is all (relatively) new (being the vaccine is less than a
> year old), how do we know it works? Or that those without it are more
> "dangerous" than those with it? Is it possible the real threat
> are those with the jab?
>
> I have no problem saying that maybe those without the vaccine are a
> threat....or maybe they're not. I just don't understand how so many people
> seem sure that those without the covid vaccine are the problem when this is
> all so new.
>
> This is me playing devils advocate...

Do you seriously think any educated, credible people wonder if "the real threat are those with the jab"? Do you really think it is rational for someone to say they "just don't understand how so many people seem sure that those without the covid vaccine are the problem"?

Science and clinical trials are real. Read more. Learn to assess the credibility of sources.

"Playing devil's advocate" doesn't mean presenting conspiracy theory nonsense as the plausible thought processes of rational, educated people.

I hope you don't "play devil's advocate" in this way with your students.

[Heliotrope]

justme123 wrote:
> There are people out there who want you
> divided and fighting within ourselves. We all know the saying "divide
> and conquer".

> But by arguing with each other we are
> giving those who want us divided exactly what they want.

Which people want us divided? And what are they 'conquering' and what do 'they want'?
'Big pharma' just wants us all to take the vaccine, politicians want us all to believe what they believe, and the same goes for the media.


justme123 wrote:
> Also, as this is all (relatively) new (being the vaccine is less than a year old), how do we know it works?

We know it works because billions having received the vaccine and the effects have been impressive. Side-effects have been very minimal by comparison.


justme123 wrote:
> Or that those without it are more "dangerous" than those with it?

Yes, those without are more dangerous. They're more likely to catch Covid and also more likely to subsequently infect others.


justme123 wrote:
> Is it possible the real threat are those with the jab?

No, those with jabs aren't the real threat. Why would they be?

[Thames Pirate]

If we have to be divided between those who understand science and those who try to give crackpot theories equal footing with science, well, I am happy to be divided. Not all views are equally valid or worthy of the same respect. If that is divisive, I am okay with that. I am all for respecting people's right to make idiotic choices, and I am all for respecting people as fellow human beings in spite of their idiotic choices, but don't expect me to respect the idiotic choice itself. And when an idiotic choice puts others at risk, don't expect me to stay silent on the issue.

[nathan61]

It sure feels good to ride on that moral high horse and denounce those who have yet to get that covid shot. But fifty percent of the world is not vaccinated, and if you are one of 3.8 billion who is still not vaccinated then you are not, in a statistical sense doing harm. The tragedy of the commons. If you really want to save the world then be a vegetarian, lower your carbon footprint by foregoing travel, and stop consuming things you don't absolutely need. Definitely don't have kids. Even with the Pfizer vaccine, for hospitalization, you get an absolute risk reduction of .84%. A pittance. We all take bigger risks living in developing countries.

Personally, I am all for getting vaccinated, and I think schools should be able to hire whoever they want. They can stipulate what college degrees and certifications you need, so why can't they stipulate what kind of health precautions you need to take?