Can any teachers (new or returning) shed some light on the situation in Thailand? We are due to arrive with our kids in a week, and it seems that the situation with Covid is getting worse every single day. We are coming from the US where everything is open, schools will be in person, and vaccine rates are high. We and are kids are feeling that we are taking 10 steps backwards with this move, and are seriously considering backing out.
Is it really as bad as it looks? What is it like for teachers?
Situation in Thailand
Re: Situation in Thailand
With increasing delta infections and extremely slow vaccination, Thailand has a long way to go. Most schools in the land of smiles will be offering remote learning over the next few months. The situation is quite dire and majority of hospitals ran out of beds. I suggest you speak to the admin to inquire about your options. Backing out is the easiest and also safest if you are genuinely concerned about your family welfare, but do let the recruiting agencies know if you used one. Alternatively, if the school is willing to accommodate, you could relocate to Phuket via the sandbox, rent an airbnb, and offer online lessons before you move to your desired destination. If I were fully vaccinated, I'd choose the latter.
Would it be feasible to relocate alone and leave the family behind for a while? They could join you in a few months, but this comes with the risk that nobody can tell you when the situation will normalise in this country. Do consult family, friends and speak to a couple of faculty on the ground at your new school.
Would it be feasible to relocate alone and leave the family behind for a while? They could join you in a few months, but this comes with the risk that nobody can tell you when the situation will normalise in this country. Do consult family, friends and speak to a couple of faculty on the ground at your new school.
Re: Situation in Thailand
canadhist wrote:
> Can any teachers (new or returning) shed some light on the situation in
> Thailand? We are due to arrive with our kids in a week, and it seems that
> the situation with Covid is getting worse every single day. We are coming
> from the US where everything is open, schools will be in person, and
> vaccine rates are high. We and are kids are feeling that we are taking 10
> steps backwards with this move, and are seriously considering backing out.
> Is it really as bad as it looks? What is it like for teachers?
Hi, Canadhist,
Apologies, as I am not in Thailand, but certainly follow developments:
You say you are in the US 'where everything is open, schools will be in person' but this is not because all is well. Delta has taken off while vaccination rates are plateauing and 'herd immunity' hopes are starting to look permanently out of reach. Vaccine availability and supply are not a problem, but stubbornness and politics are - plus, to be honest, quite a lot of corruption and stupidity. Even pro-Trump, anti-vax Republican leaders are starting to change their tune due to the looming threat, yet it is doubtful how much things will change. Delta is far more dangerous to young people and children, and I fail to see how having schools and 'everything' open is such a positive thing. It should also be remembered that the situation is worsening during the low-transmission hot summer months - and that soon enough, with all those kids back in school, the weather will change.
It Thailand you won't have to worry about winter at least that much. It's true that vaccination availability is well below that of the US, but people will certainly get their vaxxes when they can. Thailand will probably surpass the US in per capita vaccinations. Yes, the Delta onslaught is also underway, but people are sure to be a lot more careful generally compared to in the US, where mask-wearing is political rather than a reasonable or medical thing. Overall, Thailand had done quite well up 'til now with Covid, unlike the US. I have a family too, am not from Thailand or the US, but know both well. All things being equal, I would head to Thailand.
> Can any teachers (new or returning) shed some light on the situation in
> Thailand? We are due to arrive with our kids in a week, and it seems that
> the situation with Covid is getting worse every single day. We are coming
> from the US where everything is open, schools will be in person, and
> vaccine rates are high. We and are kids are feeling that we are taking 10
> steps backwards with this move, and are seriously considering backing out.
> Is it really as bad as it looks? What is it like for teachers?
Hi, Canadhist,
Apologies, as I am not in Thailand, but certainly follow developments:
You say you are in the US 'where everything is open, schools will be in person' but this is not because all is well. Delta has taken off while vaccination rates are plateauing and 'herd immunity' hopes are starting to look permanently out of reach. Vaccine availability and supply are not a problem, but stubbornness and politics are - plus, to be honest, quite a lot of corruption and stupidity. Even pro-Trump, anti-vax Republican leaders are starting to change their tune due to the looming threat, yet it is doubtful how much things will change. Delta is far more dangerous to young people and children, and I fail to see how having schools and 'everything' open is such a positive thing. It should also be remembered that the situation is worsening during the low-transmission hot summer months - and that soon enough, with all those kids back in school, the weather will change.
It Thailand you won't have to worry about winter at least that much. It's true that vaccination availability is well below that of the US, but people will certainly get their vaxxes when they can. Thailand will probably surpass the US in per capita vaccinations. Yes, the Delta onslaught is also underway, but people are sure to be a lot more careful generally compared to in the US, where mask-wearing is political rather than a reasonable or medical thing. Overall, Thailand had done quite well up 'til now with Covid, unlike the US. I have a family too, am not from Thailand or the US, but know both well. All things being equal, I would head to Thailand.
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buffalofan
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm
Re: Situation in Thailand
[quote=mysharona post_id=61731 time=1627359248 user_id=31990]
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... is-deepens
[/quote]
The real reason for the situation in Thailand can't be reported on within the country, nice to see that Guardian article does (somewhat mildly) state what is going on in the last paragraph.
If you are fully vaxxed then you should have no worries.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... is-deepens
[/quote]
The real reason for the situation in Thailand can't be reported on within the country, nice to see that Guardian article does (somewhat mildly) state what is going on in the last paragraph.
If you are fully vaxxed then you should have no worries.
Re: Situation in Thailand
The situation in Thailand is not too good, but the advice about going to Phuket is. Schools in Thailand will indeed stay closed for a while, but if you can get to Phuket, you have a beautiful island (especially because there are hardly any tourists) to live on. Not sure if your quarantine is already arranged for Bangkok, but since all schools will stay online, it should not matter if you are there or not. My old school has said that teachers do not need to be in Bangkok at the start of the year, but they prefer them in country. One of my former colleagues has arrived in the Phuket sandbox and he will indeed just rent an AirBNB for the coming time and teach from there.
If that is possible for you, it is a great idea and a great lifestyle.
Don't listen to all the panic anyway, at some point everyone needs to learn to live with this.
If that is possible for you, it is a great idea and a great lifestyle.
Don't listen to all the panic anyway, at some point everyone needs to learn to live with this.
Response
Its as bad as it looks.
Your vaccinated presumably, but that doesnt mean youre immune. Its also likely that at some point we see a COVID escape variant that the current vaccine is ineffective against. You just dont know what the availability and quality of health care is going to be. If your F2F teaching onsite Im sure you know how much kids are basically walking petri dishes. If your IS goes to or is doing remote learning doing so from the US may be an option, though getting in now and setting up somewhere like Phuket or Chiang Mai isnt a bad idea either.
The problem with going or with going but leaving family behind is you really dont know if the border will close and if it does if you will have time to leave or you may find that your family cant get in.
I strongly disagree with @Asteger, while vaccination rates are plateauing, and herd immunity and reaching an r0 of less than 1 is looking very unlikely given present politics none of that really matters very much in terms of your level of immunity. Based on those premises theres a strong case for leaving as BKK and the TH is very likely to not have those political issues and reach a much higher vaccination rate thus decreasing the probability of COVID evolving an escape variant. BUT none of that matters outside of you being vaccinated. Your micro organic swarm defense system has been prepped and prepared, it can identify the intruder, mark it for eradication, and then unleash its swarm of T cells inducing cell lysis in a seek and destroy mission, with phagocytes providing the mop up. That defense system doesnt care a nit about politics, herd immunity or any other blather. It dosnt matter if people are dropping like flies around you in a hot zone of infectious .. Your micro swarm defense system is on alert and ready for any infectious agent that tries to invade. Yes you could still contract the COVID19 contagion but there is no statistical difference of probability of contraction for the vaccinated between US and the TH. So at this point your probably thinking, how is it your disagreeing again? Its that escape variant scenario. The point that COVID19 mutates or evolves into a variant that escapes the immunity provided by the vaccine. If (when) that day comes, if you contract it, the US is going to be a better place to be than TH.
If (when) that happens you may not like being in Phuket with a . rolling across the land and insufficient medical services to treat you and the ocean (since they will likely close the borders).
Your vaccinated presumably, but that doesnt mean youre immune. Its also likely that at some point we see a COVID escape variant that the current vaccine is ineffective against. You just dont know what the availability and quality of health care is going to be. If your F2F teaching onsite Im sure you know how much kids are basically walking petri dishes. If your IS goes to or is doing remote learning doing so from the US may be an option, though getting in now and setting up somewhere like Phuket or Chiang Mai isnt a bad idea either.
The problem with going or with going but leaving family behind is you really dont know if the border will close and if it does if you will have time to leave or you may find that your family cant get in.
I strongly disagree with @Asteger, while vaccination rates are plateauing, and herd immunity and reaching an r0 of less than 1 is looking very unlikely given present politics none of that really matters very much in terms of your level of immunity. Based on those premises theres a strong case for leaving as BKK and the TH is very likely to not have those political issues and reach a much higher vaccination rate thus decreasing the probability of COVID evolving an escape variant. BUT none of that matters outside of you being vaccinated. Your micro organic swarm defense system has been prepped and prepared, it can identify the intruder, mark it for eradication, and then unleash its swarm of T cells inducing cell lysis in a seek and destroy mission, with phagocytes providing the mop up. That defense system doesnt care a nit about politics, herd immunity or any other blather. It dosnt matter if people are dropping like flies around you in a hot zone of infectious .. Your micro swarm defense system is on alert and ready for any infectious agent that tries to invade. Yes you could still contract the COVID19 contagion but there is no statistical difference of probability of contraction for the vaccinated between US and the TH. So at this point your probably thinking, how is it your disagreeing again? Its that escape variant scenario. The point that COVID19 mutates or evolves into a variant that escapes the immunity provided by the vaccine. If (when) that day comes, if you contract it, the US is going to be a better place to be than TH.
If (when) that happens you may not like being in Phuket with a . rolling across the land and insufficient medical services to treat you and the ocean (since they will likely close the borders).
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grdwdgrrrl
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:26 pm
Re: Situation in Thailand
Things could change in a nanosecond. To return to Thailand, after our holiday, (looking in in my 80yo mom) and getting the whole troop, (me and 3 kids from 12-18) vaccinated, costs a small fortune. We’re going thru Phuket b/c ASQ in BKK with three teens would really be smelly. It was always a bit of a a gamble with the crazy Covid roulette game we’re playing.
So, you get the COE and, BAM! you or someone in your . tests positive inside your 72 hour window of departure. Or, you get all the way to Phuket and someone on your flight tests positive.
Other than having no other (Covid) hiccups, as I travel with three secondary kids, I chose B., I’d rather have made it to Thailand instead of changing my flights again. It’s not the money, it’s the toll that this is taking on my kids, who miss home and friends in Bangkok.
So, you get the COE and, BAM! you or someone in your . tests positive inside your 72 hour window of departure. Or, you get all the way to Phuket and someone on your flight tests positive.
Other than having no other (Covid) hiccups, as I travel with three secondary kids, I chose B., I’d rather have made it to Thailand instead of changing my flights again. It’s not the money, it’s the toll that this is taking on my kids, who miss home and friends in Bangkok.
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desertphantom22
Re: Situation in Thailand
I don't really understand why anybody would come to Thailand right now unless they absolutely had to, the covid situation has worsened considerably since April and has highlighted the significant underlying political and economic issues in the country, issues which expats have previously been able/chosen to ignore. Phuket is by far the most vaccinated part of the country with over 70% of the population double jabbed, however significant restrictions remain and schools are still shut (a Swiss diplomat was also raped and murdered there last week, the first victim of the country's sandbox scheme) this is partly to do with the fact that the government have been using 'Sinovac' as their jab of choice which has been found to be ineffective against the now prevalent Delta variant; government has now all but admitted that those who have received it will need a third jab in the near future which will further delay any easing of restrictions. Additionally you will find that your THB salary is worth less every week as the economy falters while you will also see the day to day suffering of everyday Thai people increasing as shops, restaurants and tourist destinations remain closed. You will also have to live with the fact that your not so insignificant income tax contributions are going towards a government which places its own financial gain against the health of the people with the poorest and most vulnerable closely followed by expatriates at the back of the vaccine queue. Of course your international school is unlikely to draw your attention to any of these issues, partly because the owners will be part of the high society sucking up the country's wealth and propping up the government and partly because many expats seem to live in an alternative dream world here namely due to their lack of understanding of Thai, partly due to naivety and often because people don't want to believe the reality. In summary the potential issues with health insurance and overwhelmed ICUs are the tip of a giant iceberg and there are far better places to be right now.
Re: Situation in Thailand
@dp22
That is quite an emotional take, but you did raise some valid points.
Firstly, international teachers aren't here to do charity or right the government's wrongs. They are here to make a living.
Secondly, several countries, including the U.S., have gone through a phase similar to Thailand and eventually, some form of normalcy was restored. Yes, the government isn't very competent and the vaccination rates are slow, but there are countries doing far worse in Africa, yet ITs continue to work there.
Thirdly, the baht weakened a little, but this is nothing out of the ordinary. This ain't N. Korea and once vaccination rates increase, the currency will gradually stabilise like it did in the past. Billions of baht have been injected into the economy and people are getting some relief from the government.
Fourthly and finally, if you are fully vaccinated and entered Thailand via the sandbox, you will do fine if you apply common sense and be aware of your surroundings.
However, if a teacher is looking at 2022-23 recruitment, you could definitely look beyond Thailand, but the fact is majority of schools' enrolment has been negatively impacted by COVID-19. Yes, there are a few silver linings and the competition for fewer vacancies in these desirable locations (Japan, Singapore, the Netherlands, Switzerland etc.) has only gotten more fierce. The bottomline is we need to look beyond the media headlines.
That is quite an emotional take, but you did raise some valid points.
Firstly, international teachers aren't here to do charity or right the government's wrongs. They are here to make a living.
Secondly, several countries, including the U.S., have gone through a phase similar to Thailand and eventually, some form of normalcy was restored. Yes, the government isn't very competent and the vaccination rates are slow, but there are countries doing far worse in Africa, yet ITs continue to work there.
Thirdly, the baht weakened a little, but this is nothing out of the ordinary. This ain't N. Korea and once vaccination rates increase, the currency will gradually stabilise like it did in the past. Billions of baht have been injected into the economy and people are getting some relief from the government.
Fourthly and finally, if you are fully vaccinated and entered Thailand via the sandbox, you will do fine if you apply common sense and be aware of your surroundings.
However, if a teacher is looking at 2022-23 recruitment, you could definitely look beyond Thailand, but the fact is majority of schools' enrolment has been negatively impacted by COVID-19. Yes, there are a few silver linings and the competition for fewer vacancies in these desirable locations (Japan, Singapore, the Netherlands, Switzerland etc.) has only gotten more fierce. The bottomline is we need to look beyond the media headlines.
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desertphantom22
Re: Situation in Thailand
@fine dude
I appreciate your points and a lot of mine are borne from frustration much because my wife is Thai and I see how much the pandemic and the recent government responses have impacted her and her family and also because so many fellow expats seem loathe to criticize anything about the country, something I see echoed on the forums. Of course Thailand is not North Korea but if that's our point of comparison then we're aiming fairly low and of course the baht will not sink forever but if we're here to make a living then how low are we prepared to watch it go? Thailand is brilliant at marketing itself as a destination and most foreigners know little about how the country is run below the superficial smiles and beaches, my last position was in the middle east and I have had colleagues here critisize me for working there - it being seen as 'dirty money' and supporting a corrupt and racist nation, I find these opinions to be both widespread and myopic beyond belief. I guess my points are that if you're going to work in Thailand either you'll need to be able to turn a very blind eye (more than ever now) and be ok with that or live in total ignorance and that the issues spread well beyond covid and are going to take a lot longer than in the average country to sort out as a result, note how there are (often unreported deadly) protests here on a weekly basis in spite of the pandemic.
I appreciate your points and a lot of mine are borne from frustration much because my wife is Thai and I see how much the pandemic and the recent government responses have impacted her and her family and also because so many fellow expats seem loathe to criticize anything about the country, something I see echoed on the forums. Of course Thailand is not North Korea but if that's our point of comparison then we're aiming fairly low and of course the baht will not sink forever but if we're here to make a living then how low are we prepared to watch it go? Thailand is brilliant at marketing itself as a destination and most foreigners know little about how the country is run below the superficial smiles and beaches, my last position was in the middle east and I have had colleagues here critisize me for working there - it being seen as 'dirty money' and supporting a corrupt and racist nation, I find these opinions to be both widespread and myopic beyond belief. I guess my points are that if you're going to work in Thailand either you'll need to be able to turn a very blind eye (more than ever now) and be ok with that or live in total ignorance and that the issues spread well beyond covid and are going to take a lot longer than in the average country to sort out as a result, note how there are (often unreported deadly) protests here on a weekly basis in spite of the pandemic.
Re: Situation in Thailand
@desertphantom22
I fully empathise with your situation and my thoughts are with your wife's family. According to an official estimate, there are a million who lost jobs in the Kingdom (and many more in the informal sector). The expats and retirees in Thailand became jaded and they don't have much to do other than constantly voicing negativity. If these folks think their homeland is all sunshine and roses, why did they come to Thailand in the first place? They need to bear the lows if they want to enjoy the highs.
I didn't mean to aim low when I brought up N. Korea. Thailand's economic fundamentals are strong from banking, manufacturing and service sector perspectives and investments will return as it always happened in the past. Yes, we are in a pandemic and there is no precedent for this, but we can't put everything down due to some newspaper headlines or loose talk on an online forum. International schools are here to provide an English education and they definitely offer better infrastructure and learning than the local public schools and they aren't going to go away. It is for the Thai government and the citizens to address their social ills and we don't have to be guilty for no fault of ours. Foreign teachers could make a difference by promoting values and critical thinking in their own classrooms, which is direly needed in Thailand. Who knows, you might be teaching the future prime minister or the governor of Bank of Thailand (BOT). I'm quite optimistic about returning to some form of normalcy. Don't forget that Thailand began manufacturing AstraZeneca vaccines locally and they passed testing both in Europe and the U.S.
P.S. Of all the places, the former head of campus at UWC, Singapore did choose Bangkok for his next posting and he continues to do a wonderful job. There are many world class educators who chose this country for their long-term career. Here is a quote from Admiral James Stockdale that was shared by this former head recently: "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end - which you can never afford to lose - with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality."
I fully empathise with your situation and my thoughts are with your wife's family. According to an official estimate, there are a million who lost jobs in the Kingdom (and many more in the informal sector). The expats and retirees in Thailand became jaded and they don't have much to do other than constantly voicing negativity. If these folks think their homeland is all sunshine and roses, why did they come to Thailand in the first place? They need to bear the lows if they want to enjoy the highs.
I didn't mean to aim low when I brought up N. Korea. Thailand's economic fundamentals are strong from banking, manufacturing and service sector perspectives and investments will return as it always happened in the past. Yes, we are in a pandemic and there is no precedent for this, but we can't put everything down due to some newspaper headlines or loose talk on an online forum. International schools are here to provide an English education and they definitely offer better infrastructure and learning than the local public schools and they aren't going to go away. It is for the Thai government and the citizens to address their social ills and we don't have to be guilty for no fault of ours. Foreign teachers could make a difference by promoting values and critical thinking in their own classrooms, which is direly needed in Thailand. Who knows, you might be teaching the future prime minister or the governor of Bank of Thailand (BOT). I'm quite optimistic about returning to some form of normalcy. Don't forget that Thailand began manufacturing AstraZeneca vaccines locally and they passed testing both in Europe and the U.S.
P.S. Of all the places, the former head of campus at UWC, Singapore did choose Bangkok for his next posting and he continues to do a wonderful job. There are many world class educators who chose this country for their long-term career. Here is a quote from Admiral James Stockdale that was shared by this former head recently: "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end - which you can never afford to lose - with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality."
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desertphantom22
Re: Situation in Thailand
@fine dude
I agree with you the international schools aren't going anywhere, there's high demand for them and a perfect way for high society to further show off their (apparent) wealth to the neighbours, I guess that's why there are so many! And I agree I'm all for teaching critical thought, hopefully it will help to create a fairer society in the future. The issue of course is that the average person here has no legitimate way to voice their concerns, who can forget the last election when they delayed the result in order to 'recount' the votes? I agree that there are also a lot of jaded expats kicking about and that it's difficult to know exactly what's going on due to the state controlled media. Personally, I moved here mainly to support my wife after she was forced to move back after losing her employment when covid began, I probably arrived in Thailand with opinions about how the country is run and sadly these have only been confirmed over the last year, the latest was being turned away from my vaccination appointment due to the 'Thais first' policy of the hospital. I really think there are far better and less compromised places to make your living in the world, the overwhelming attitude I get from teachers working here is that they will take advantage of their relatively lofty positions as long as it lasts with little understanding of the country's situation e.g. staff moaning about the protests as it was having a negative effect on exchange rates. I'm looking forward to completing my contract.
I agree with you the international schools aren't going anywhere, there's high demand for them and a perfect way for high society to further show off their (apparent) wealth to the neighbours, I guess that's why there are so many! And I agree I'm all for teaching critical thought, hopefully it will help to create a fairer society in the future. The issue of course is that the average person here has no legitimate way to voice their concerns, who can forget the last election when they delayed the result in order to 'recount' the votes? I agree that there are also a lot of jaded expats kicking about and that it's difficult to know exactly what's going on due to the state controlled media. Personally, I moved here mainly to support my wife after she was forced to move back after losing her employment when covid began, I probably arrived in Thailand with opinions about how the country is run and sadly these have only been confirmed over the last year, the latest was being turned away from my vaccination appointment due to the 'Thais first' policy of the hospital. I really think there are far better and less compromised places to make your living in the world, the overwhelming attitude I get from teachers working here is that they will take advantage of their relatively lofty positions as long as it lasts with little understanding of the country's situation e.g. staff moaning about the protests as it was having a negative effect on exchange rates. I'm looking forward to completing my contract.