Good cities for families in China?

[kellysensei]

I will possibly be looking for an overseas teaching position in 2020. My family and I love Asia and would prioritize Japan or Taiwan, but the idea of moving to China keeps creeping back into my mind because of the sheer availability of jobs and the fact that earthquakes wouldn't be much of a concern. :)

Are there any cities in China that are particularly good for Western expat families with kids? I'm thinking about local attitude toward foreigners, parks and playgrounds, kids' activities, and even availability of Western food like macaroni and cheese (my older son's favorite). My boys would be 10 and 8 when we move and they have been to many countries in Asia already, including Taiwan but not including mainland China.

I'm not very interested in Beijing or other northern cities. I've been to Shanghai and enjoyed it, but I'm wondering about other Chinese cities.

Also, is it true that most international schools in China have VPNs to access Google and Facebook?

For what it's worth, I'm an ESL teacher with a Master's degree and 12 years experience. My husband is in the IT world and would possibly work from home for his current company, but he also wouldn't mind changing careers and looking for something different in Asia once we got there.

Thanks!

[Heliotrope]

I think the chance of being killed in Chinese traffic is a lot bigger than being killed in an earthquake in Japan or Taiwan, so if you can get a job in either of those two countries I would definitely go for those, as both are so much nicer places to live than China. Also, with young kids (and for adults) the air pollution in China is a very real threat to their and your health.
The money in China can be better though, although both of the main schools in Taipei will let you save plenty of money.

If you're not interested in the northern cities, perhaps Guangzhou is an option, if we're not considering Hong Kong as China. I'm not very fond of any major Chinese city, but Guangzhou is quite international and has lots to offer. I haven't been to Shenzen, so I can't comment on that city. It's all very new and devoid of personality form what I've seen in pictures, but it's next to Hong Kong which is a plus.

Most of the international schools in China that I know about have VPNs, but you can also subscribe to one yourself on your own laptop.

[wrldtrvlr123]

You might also want to research earthquakes in China as they have had some very horrific ones.

[FV2020]

South Korea and Thailand are also nice options in Asia. Of course, the more desirable the location, the more competition for jobs it seems. For other places in mainland China, consider Chengdu and Suzhou. I’ve also heard positive things about Xiamen, Nanjing, and Dalian.

[PsyGuy]

Earthquakes are an issue in China, just not to the degree they are for Taiwan and Japan, because those masses get hit first and they are smaller and closer to fault lines.
Absolutely agree with @Heliotrope on Chinese traffic, ITs that left for medical reasons from China usually were in an accident, and most contracts allow them to dismiss you after 30 days if you can not work. There arent really traffic rules or laws that have practical applications to traffic.

How much did you really like Shanghai, because most of the more livable cities are basically in the shadows of the main capital cities (they are basically giant metropolises). Guangzhou is the other of the big three its not as Posh as Shanghai and not as elitist as Beijing, but a major center of business, and benefits highly from its location close to HK. Its a very international city. Guangzhou has better air quality to Beijing and northern China, but just about everywhere does.

Since your spouse is in IT, I would strongly recommend you look into Shenzhen, its the silicon valley of China. Your spouse will find lots of open and under the table opportunities to consult for coin or even on a package thats better than an IE package. Its very international for its size, but more attuned to a single persons than a families lifestyle.

Dalian is a the beach, holiday town in China for those that stay in country, its a nice place to live but it isnt international for day to day life of an expat.

Those would be my choices, I wouldnt endorse the others, but I wouldnt overly criticize them either. The last ten years have seen a lot of changes and improvements in China, even what were once provincial and rural cities have become quite advance. Imports are more available and English proficiency is growing quickly. You will still be lost and frustrated but not for nearly as long as you would have been in years passed. Its really what type of life do you want to live. The big three capital cities are like living the NYLON lifestyle, the other cities mentioned are like living in the suburbs, and there are still very rural regions of China if you want to step back in time.

As far as ISs with VPNs, it depends on what you call an IS, the upper tier ISs usually have a VPN, though access may be metered or monitored. Using the internet in a 1st tier IS is like using it in the west, you dont notice a lot of difference (except speed). Third tier ISs and ISs that are Academies with local student populations generally dont use a VPN and if they have one its for limited staff/faculty use.
China also has versions of those apps for inside China, Wechat is like LINE in China and is used for everything including social media like Facebook and Baidu is the Chinese version of Google. However, its simple and relatively inexpensive to get a VPN of your own (I use Nord).

[Snowball]

My family lived in Zhuhai for 6 months and found it very livable. It's not as huge as the mega-cities, and it's touted as China's "green city." That means there are more grassy boulevard strips and the air is cleaner. It's a 1-hour train ride from Guangzhou. It's also directly adjacent to Macau and now accessible to Hong Kong via the new bridge. Between those locales, you can get anything you need. (Although there was a local import shop near our Zhuhai apartment where we could purchase authentic, blue box mac n cheese, albeit for quite a premium price.) There are at least two international schools in Zhuhai.

For that matter, Macau would be a relatively easy place for a western family to dip their toes into Chinese life. Originally settled by the Portuguese, it has a strong European/Christian influence but predominantly an ethnically Chinese population.

[Snowball]

Re: VPNs. Our family purchased our own subscription for use on our personal devices. I think it was USD $10 per month? A very nominal charge, and certainly one you could afford if your school didn't provide it.

[kellysensei]

Thanks for the replies! Lots to think about. Now that you mention it, yes, I agree that traffic in China is a nightmare. I'll have to do more research on which Chinese cities have subway systems. The subway system in Shanghai was amazing - safe, clean, and easy to use.

I'm not familiar with Dalian or Zhuhai, but I'll look into them. Yes, Shenzen would probably be good for my husband, although he's not an engineer or coder - he's more in the business and tech support side of things. But he loves his Tesla and I think he'd like a job having something to do with clean energy or electric vehicles.

Mostly, we'd just like to give our children the experience of another culture and language for 3-5 years. I don't think we're looking for a permanent move, unless we really like the location. I speak Japanese, I'm teaching my kids Japanese, and I'm also teaching myself some Mandarin Chinese, so I still think Japan or Taiwan would be most ideal for us, but we'll see!

[Illiane_Blues]

Have a look at Shenzen in this three part documentary:
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLmaIbb13GM
2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrhvZhPaxQ4
3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydPqKhgh9Mg

[base5555]

I would also recommend Zhuhai or Guangzhou. Currently living in Zhuhai and moving to GZ. I have a family here and don't find the pollution to be that terrible, gets a little heavy in the winter, but doesn't last long. In fact, we were much more bothered by the allergy season in Japan. As for traffic, we have a private driver and don't really see traffic as an issue. Sure you need to be careful crossing the street, but generally traffic is going quite a bit slower here than the US, so haven't seen as many horrific accidents here as compared to the states. Also because everyone drives like a bunch of jerks here, drivers tend to be more alert.

[PsyGuy]

@Snowball

The problem with Macu, is there arent many vacancies each year for the region and there are maybe two ISs on the circuit.

@base5555

Except even slow traffic at a humble 25Kph that the mass of a car hitting a person can and will still be devastating. Everything in China is no problem, until its a problem and then its a nightmare.

[eion_padraig]

@kellysensei,

There are 33 cities in China with subway systems by my count. It's pretty mind-blowing how fast they're growing too. I've lived in two major Chinese cities and been to a lot of others on vacation. I try to ride subways in different places I've been to in China. I will say that sometimes the subways are a big time saver, sometimes taxis are great options (Didi makes it very easy to use places I've lived and traveled to and it's relatively cheap compared to most countries), and frankly buses can be quite accessible too.

One of the other major quality of life improvements that's happened in a fairly recent period is buying nearly everything by delivery. From groceries, to alcohol, to appliances, to clothing, to household necessities, etc, makes the hassle of navigating things much, much easier. If someone hasn't lived here in the past 4 - 5 years, they may not realize how accessible using these things has become compared to what it had been.

Macau is pretty charming. I think living there you'd quickly learn to go to Hong Kong or mainland to access more, but it's easy to do. I've had friends live in Zhuhai and appreciate it. Xiamen is a great southern, beach city with great climate. I have a former colleague working at an international school there. Guangzhou is very conveniently located with several decent options to get IB experience (after the best international school, it drops down in quality a bit but several places to get experience with IB or AP).

Generally speaking outside of Hong Kong, you'll get a few decent tier 2 schools and lots of bilingual schools for Chinese and several for-profits. The bilingual schools and for-profits are not generally places where people stay too long, but I think for 2 - 4 years, they can be decent and a good way to get experience in general and/or IB/AP/A level experience.

Dalian's winter air quality gets pretty bad and it's very cold. I've traveled there and I really liked it for the weeks I spent there in the summer, but I'd be cautious about the winter when they burn coal.

Chinese people love kids, so that's in your favor. I think Southern Chinese are also more open in some ways than the Northern Chinese. I think it's easier to engage initially, but when you make a Northern Chinese friend it's a long-term friend.

The schools where my friends work at have VPN, which usually work. At times during heavily sensitive anniversaries or political events even those may have issues. Generally, they start working again once the period of time that the government was concerned about ends.

It's possible to find Western restaurants in all the cities discussed. Guangzhou and Shenzhen will have more. The quality will vary. Pizza isn't always what you expect it to be. You'll pay more for Western food in general.

Just to discuss your qualifications, some schools (better ones) will want to see you have credentials as a teacher beyond a MA in ESL. It wasn't clear from your post if you have that or what level your experience is with. Having 3 dependents (husband, two kids) will make you expensive. Some places employee foreign tech people as department heads, so if he was able/willing to work for the school that is likely to make you much more marketable as that would mean two working parents with two dependents which is much more economical for the school.

Good luck.

Eion

[kellysensei]

Thanks, Eion, for the info!

Just to clarify, I am a licensed K-12 ESL teacher with a Master's degree. And yes, my husband would be willing to work for a school, but I'm doubtful anyone would hire him without experience in a school setting. Although I did recently see a school post openings for both an ESL teacher and an IT program manager, so maybe in a case like that, they would consider him....?

[PsyGuy]

Wow, 33 cities with metro systems, didnt know that.

Delivery has grown in China, but its not a new thing, many years ago, earlier than the last decade getting things delivered wasnt uncommon, I use to have my staples of coke, OJ brew, water, toilet paper and paper towel delivered on a regular basis.
China burns coal everywhere.
Pizza really can absolutely not be what you expect, and places like Pizza Hut are fine dining shirt and tie and dress in some regions.

@kellysensei

Its possible they might consider your spouse its really going to depend on the logistics of the job description, the main issues are, can your spouse do the whole job, and if the job involves locals can he communicate in Chinese with them. So much of that depends on the job description as roles can vary substantially.

[Overhere]

Psyguy is correct, delivery has been a staple of Chinese life for years. The mere fact that 1,000,000 delivery drivers are employed China wide attests to it’s popularity. However it has grown tremendously in the past five years and you can buy almost anything you would find in a brick and mortar store online, plus specialty items that you would never find.