Visa Issues
Visa Issues
We just found out that Saudi does not recognize online degrees. My husband completed his degree online while we were overseas and I was working. Has anyone come across this? The school doesn't seem too worried, but all the research I have completed states that rarely does Saudi make an exception and grant a visa. What to do?
Response
In general a degree is a degree is a degree as long as its accredited. I do not know where your spouses degree is from, but many ISs and regulatory authorities take a dim view of institutions such as UoP, Capella, etc. If your spouses degree is earned online from a reputable University it does not matter what method of delivery the degree was earned.
Re: Visa Issues
If your degree is a master's online and it's not what's accrediting you, you're OK. If not, I would keep pressing your school and visa agency. When we came in to Saudi we had teachers denied visas because the diploma was in Latin, because the person was American but with a university degree from Eastern Europe...in fact when we started, almost all Americans were denied visas the first time through and we had to wait for another try, so we didn't arrive at school until October (my husband had health issues and wasn't supposed to arrived until November anyway, and my kids were denied visas until he brought them). Our next year, we had teachers denied visas until Christmas break. The Saudi visa process is pretty whimsical, it seems, so I would be persistent about knowing the timelines, and if there's anything you need to do. For Saudi, even degrees from brick and mortar school had to be sent to another agency to prove they were real.
Re: Visa Issues
After a very stressful day, we learned that Saudi has a new rule that does not permit online degrees. Yes, his degree is from an accredited brick-and-mortar university, but they do not care about that. I actually have to get a form from my university proving I took classes on campus. This is a new-ish requirement. The solution is that he will come into Saudi on a dependent visa and be able to work on that. I am not entirely convinced but the school said this is the workaround as the online degree rejection is happening frequently.
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SuperNintendo
- Posts: 7
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Re: Visa Issues
PsyGuy wrote:
> @austin
> They are scamming you. Assuming it is a new rule if an Is wants to they can make it happen, they just dont want to.
@ PsyGuy
Do you really believe an IS can get around a rule like this in the KSA? I don't ask to be snide. I really want to know what you, and others, think/have experienced.
We have a similar situation. Our degrees were done online, but our university is fully accredited. We got recommendations and a letter from the university saying the right things (per the visa processing company rep), but our degrees were still rejected. The visa rep says there is just about no chance of the SACM changing their minds, and our only real options would be to look at a business or work visit visa. We don't want to go that, seemingly sketchy, route.
The IS HR rep isn't worried and hasn't said anything about looking a different kind of visa. The HR rep is still very confident everything will work out. They plan to send a rep to meet directly with the SACM.
Hence, my question about whether or not an IS has the ability to go around these rules. I know there is flex room in some parts of the world but wonder if the KSA is one of those places.
> @austin
> They are scamming you. Assuming it is a new rule if an Is wants to they can make it happen, they just dont want to.
@ PsyGuy
Do you really believe an IS can get around a rule like this in the KSA? I don't ask to be snide. I really want to know what you, and others, think/have experienced.
We have a similar situation. Our degrees were done online, but our university is fully accredited. We got recommendations and a letter from the university saying the right things (per the visa processing company rep), but our degrees were still rejected. The visa rep says there is just about no chance of the SACM changing their minds, and our only real options would be to look at a business or work visit visa. We don't want to go that, seemingly sketchy, route.
The IS HR rep isn't worried and hasn't said anything about looking a different kind of visa. The HR rep is still very confident everything will work out. They plan to send a rep to meet directly with the SACM.
Hence, my question about whether or not an IS has the ability to go around these rules. I know there is flex room in some parts of the world but wonder if the KSA is one of those places.
Reply
@SuperNintendo
Absolutely, in the Kingdom business gets done based on relationships (who you know) and how much "incentive" you can provide. If your IS has the contacts, associates, and most importantly the parents with influence, or has the resources to buy lawyers and friends in the right places they can get anything done. Its why your visa rep stated there was "just about" no chance instead of stating there was no chance. An IS either doesnt want to expend those resources and/or work those relationships or doesnt have them.
All the rules seem absolute, but close the doors and all those guys have mistresses and drink scotch, etc.. This is why your IS hasnt expressed concern, they either know where the deputy of the local office has his secrets, or someone knows someone they play golf with or go to mosque with , and understands the appropriate gift to bring to the meeting.
If your IS is wrong and the meeting isnt 'productive', I would strongly advise against a business or work visit visa. The business visa is easier and more long term, but the work visit is less expensive and makes daily life easier. Within the realm of worst case scenarios the most likely is the husband gets his visa approved, and then can sponsor the wife on a dependent visa, and then apply for a work extension permit for her in country.
Absolutely, in the Kingdom business gets done based on relationships (who you know) and how much "incentive" you can provide. If your IS has the contacts, associates, and most importantly the parents with influence, or has the resources to buy lawyers and friends in the right places they can get anything done. Its why your visa rep stated there was "just about" no chance instead of stating there was no chance. An IS either doesnt want to expend those resources and/or work those relationships or doesnt have them.
All the rules seem absolute, but close the doors and all those guys have mistresses and drink scotch, etc.. This is why your IS hasnt expressed concern, they either know where the deputy of the local office has his secrets, or someone knows someone they play golf with or go to mosque with , and understands the appropriate gift to bring to the meeting.
If your IS is wrong and the meeting isnt 'productive', I would strongly advise against a business or work visit visa. The business visa is easier and more long term, but the work visit is less expensive and makes daily life easier. Within the realm of worst case scenarios the most likely is the husband gets his visa approved, and then can sponsor the wife on a dependent visa, and then apply for a work extension permit for her in country.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Visa Issues
There are definitely restrictions and things are being enforced more in the Kingdom.
The workaround is valid (I have had friends who had the same thing happen in a different profession). Wives can indeed sponsor their husbands and we knew several couples where this was the case.
I wouldn't panic, but it might take longer than you hope, because it's Saudi and things happen when they happen.
Shad
The workaround is valid (I have had friends who had the same thing happen in a different profession). Wives can indeed sponsor their husbands and we knew several couples where this was the case.
I wouldn't panic, but it might take longer than you hope, because it's Saudi and things happen when they happen.
Shad
Reply
@SJ
Wives can sponsor their husbands, but in the scenario where one of you would get a work visa, it would be far, far easier, less complex, and less risky if the husband got the full visa and then sponsored the wife.
The workarounds are valid from a technical perspective but not a practical one.
The business visa is little more than a tourist visa. It would allow you entry into the country for up to 6 months but each stay is limited to 30 days. So you would have to leave and reenter monthly. You also cant enter into any agreements or contracts. Your IS would have to rent your apartment/flat (which they may be providing you anyway) but you wouldnt be able to open a bank account, join an athletic association, etc..
The Working Visitor visa, is a 6 month visa you can stay the entire time but it has to be approved directly by the MFA, and your IS wouldnt be able to legally pay you directly. You would also have a very hard time again entering into any form of agreement or contract.
Wives can sponsor their husbands, but in the scenario where one of you would get a work visa, it would be far, far easier, less complex, and less risky if the husband got the full visa and then sponsored the wife.
The workarounds are valid from a technical perspective but not a practical one.
The business visa is little more than a tourist visa. It would allow you entry into the country for up to 6 months but each stay is limited to 30 days. So you would have to leave and reenter monthly. You also cant enter into any agreements or contracts. Your IS would have to rent your apartment/flat (which they may be providing you anyway) but you wouldnt be able to open a bank account, join an athletic association, etc..
The Working Visitor visa, is a 6 month visa you can stay the entire time but it has to be approved directly by the MFA, and your IS wouldnt be able to legally pay you directly. You would also have a very hard time again entering into any form of agreement or contract.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Visa Issues
@PG - not sure if you are aware, but once a sponsored spouse is brought in they can become a legal worker. This was introduced in 2012 or 2013. Leaving that aside, the school can funnel all the money through the one person as there are no taxes. Now, if Saudi introduced income tax on expats who make over a threshold amount, then that might be another story.
Reply
@SJ
Yes I am aware, it is still a far easier process for a husband to sponsor a wife than a wife to sponsor a husband.
Yes, the IS could shift all the income through one employee, Kingdom taxes arent the only consideration. Its possible and likely that one individual receiving two salaries would cross the threshold of the foreign tax credit and create a domestic tax liability. This is in addition to a number of other issues and factors.
Yes I am aware, it is still a far easier process for a husband to sponsor a wife than a wife to sponsor a husband.
Yes, the IS could shift all the income through one employee, Kingdom taxes arent the only consideration. Its possible and likely that one individual receiving two salaries would cross the threshold of the foreign tax credit and create a domestic tax liability. This is in addition to a number of other issues and factors.
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SuperNintendo
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:06 pm
Re: Visa Issues
Thank you for the replies. The info is very helpful.
I do have another question, but it may be too specific for many to know. If our degrees are approved (even with being done largely online), would the approval be permanent? For example, if we were to move to another school in the KSA later on, would our degrees have to be authenticated again or just be accepted based on the previous attestation? In a nutshell, I want to know if the IS pushing the approval through (if possible) is a permanent solution to our issues with the SACM about our degrees or a bandaid that could have to be done again and again.
Also, is this issue with online degrees only a problem in the KSA, UAE, and other neighboring ME countries? Has anyone had problems getting online degrees attested elsewhere? It never occurred to me that it would matter (for visa purposes) how your degree was completed if it was done through a fully accredited school and led to teaching licensure.
I do have another question, but it may be too specific for many to know. If our degrees are approved (even with being done largely online), would the approval be permanent? For example, if we were to move to another school in the KSA later on, would our degrees have to be authenticated again or just be accepted based on the previous attestation? In a nutshell, I want to know if the IS pushing the approval through (if possible) is a permanent solution to our issues with the SACM about our degrees or a bandaid that could have to be done again and again.
Also, is this issue with online degrees only a problem in the KSA, UAE, and other neighboring ME countries? Has anyone had problems getting online degrees attested elsewhere? It never occurred to me that it would matter (for visa purposes) how your degree was completed if it was done through a fully accredited school and led to teaching licensure.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Visa Issues
Knowing Saudi, each case is looked at individually and when you are in once, it might not necessarily mean you are in again.
I did a mixed degree once upon a time - online plus on campus - and it was accepted. As long as there is at least SOME campus presence, then it is seen as more legitimate.
You need to understand that Western professionals are being hit with restrictions because many other expats (a very small minority of them Western) have used online degrees as a cover to fake their education or get a 'degree' from a 'university'. Saudi's solution? Ban them all. LOL
Good luck with your adventure.
I did a mixed degree once upon a time - online plus on campus - and it was accepted. As long as there is at least SOME campus presence, then it is seen as more legitimate.
You need to understand that Western professionals are being hit with restrictions because many other expats (a very small minority of them Western) have used online degrees as a cover to fake their education or get a 'degree' from a 'university'. Saudi's solution? Ban them all. LOL
Good luck with your adventure.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Visa Issues
@PG
I hadn't thought about the foreign earnings claims. That would definitely have tax implications - then again, it would also build up for retirement back home.
I hadn't thought about the foreign earnings claims. That would definitely have tax implications - then again, it would also build up for retirement back home.