I apologize if this has been asked before, but I would appreciate input from anyone who cares to give it. I also apologize if this sounds a bit.. convoluted, but I'll try my best to sort it all out.
I'm curious as to what our (my husband and I) honest chances of securing a position in an international school are. Here is our breakdown:
1. We both have two years overseas teaching experience, however, this was at a Chinese (not international) private boarding school, as ESL teachers (I taught grades 3/4 and he taught middle school).
2. We are currently back in the States. I'm earning a second degree in English Literature and a Master's in Teaching, which will also lead to a teaching license.
3. By the time I'm finished with school, my husband will have 2 years experience as a middle school math teacher. He is certified to teach math in grades K-8, though he is planning on getting the additional credits needed to teach math k-12.
I have no real desire to teach in the USA, so ideally, we would like to go overseas as soon as I'm done earning my qualifications. What are the chances of this happening?
Thank you for your time.
Honest Chances?
I don't see you all having any problem finding positions. It all depends upon how picky you are. I would also highly recommend that you read the "pay part" of this site, but for a different reason. Going into a position with a positive attitude and a willingness to accept other cultures is crucial to your having a good experience. Read some of the reviews and then notice how many don't seem to like the people in that country, or don't like the cultural attitudes, or who find many faults in others. Many of those people seem hell bent on being unhappy.
There are clearly some schools to stay away from, but your experience will largely depend upon you.
The placement agencies seem okay, but anymore you can do just as well by getting a subscription to Tieonline and browsing through the job listings.
www.tieonline.com
They have lots of job postings there, and even though this site really hates them, they have a neat newspaper with some good articles and information.
As Ichiro said, please post after you have went through the process. It would be very helpful for others who will be in the same position you are in now
There are clearly some schools to stay away from, but your experience will largely depend upon you.
The placement agencies seem okay, but anymore you can do just as well by getting a subscription to Tieonline and browsing through the job listings.
www.tieonline.com
They have lots of job postings there, and even though this site really hates them, they have a neat newspaper with some good articles and information.
As Ichiro said, please post after you have went through the process. It would be very helpful for others who will be in the same position you are in now
Thank you both for your replies. I actually did pay to read the reviews on this site, quite a few months ago, but they didn't really answer my questions. Also *so many* of the reviews seem so overwhelmingly negative, it makes me a bit wary... Happy teachers generally don't post reviews at all, so you're left trying to read between the lines with the unhappy reviews.
Specialed, are you saying that the recruitment fairs are becoming unnecessary? I have heard that UNI is a good fair for those that are trying to get that first job.
Specialed, are you saying that the recruitment fairs are becoming unnecessary? I have heard that UNI is a good fair for those that are trying to get that first job.
The fairs can be really good, but you can easily get a job without going to one of the fairs. The fairs can be better as many schools are there, and they generally hire "on the spot". Downside - it's a long weekend, it can be expensive if you have to travel ( a bigger concern if you are already overseas) and many schools are hiring before the fairs even start. I have a concern with the placement agencies that they are not going to be looking for a good match so much as making sure they fill jobs for the schools. This could mean you get interviews for schools that are having trouble filling positions - for good reason. Since most have the schools pay, they are working for the schools and not you. UNI's fair is different because they have no stake in the game.
The plus for an agency - well they can hook you up with a bunch of schools and they do a lot of the legwork for you. Personally, I don't see that as such a big deal anymore with the internet and Skype, it used to be when you would have no idea how to contact a school - now it's easy to look up jobs on Tieonline. Also, some schools only hire through the job fairs (I don't think it's many anymore, but...) so if you are really picky, that may be your only choice.
About the reviews. You will see lots and lots of negative reviews for almost every school. This site makes its money by getting the, "Oh my god did you see what someone posted about our school on ISR" people to pay for the subscription. Personally, I look for reviews that seem to deal with facts and I ignore the ones that deal with people being the biggest bully they have ever met and everyone at the school is messed up. I really ignore the review when someone publicly slams another person in the review. That is just me. So how do you sort it out? I don't know. There is a little box that says, "who posted these reviews?". Well the answer is - you, and nobody else, really knows. I've heard of people who have this zen system set up, but it is hard for me to tell what is real factual review and what is a disgruntled employee review. As soon as I see someone use the word fact, or factual in the review, it sends up a huge red flag that opinions are headed my way! Some people seem to think that if they say the word "fact" it makes it a fact and no longer an opinion. Whatever. My Zen system is to look at the Visa box. Disgruntled employees slam everything, even the visa which may in fact be easy to get. People at our school who have slammed the school just start giving 1's across the board and don't actually think about each box. Our school is awesome with the Visa situation so anyone posting less then an 8 or above, is just ticking low scores. My system, but not foolproof by any stretch of the old imagination!
Hope this helps a little!
The plus for an agency - well they can hook you up with a bunch of schools and they do a lot of the legwork for you. Personally, I don't see that as such a big deal anymore with the internet and Skype, it used to be when you would have no idea how to contact a school - now it's easy to look up jobs on Tieonline. Also, some schools only hire through the job fairs (I don't think it's many anymore, but...) so if you are really picky, that may be your only choice.
About the reviews. You will see lots and lots of negative reviews for almost every school. This site makes its money by getting the, "Oh my god did you see what someone posted about our school on ISR" people to pay for the subscription. Personally, I look for reviews that seem to deal with facts and I ignore the ones that deal with people being the biggest bully they have ever met and everyone at the school is messed up. I really ignore the review when someone publicly slams another person in the review. That is just me. So how do you sort it out? I don't know. There is a little box that says, "who posted these reviews?". Well the answer is - you, and nobody else, really knows. I've heard of people who have this zen system set up, but it is hard for me to tell what is real factual review and what is a disgruntled employee review. As soon as I see someone use the word fact, or factual in the review, it sends up a huge red flag that opinions are headed my way! Some people seem to think that if they say the word "fact" it makes it a fact and no longer an opinion. Whatever. My Zen system is to look at the Visa box. Disgruntled employees slam everything, even the visa which may in fact be easy to get. People at our school who have slammed the school just start giving 1's across the board and don't actually think about each box. Our school is awesome with the Visa situation so anyone posting less then an 8 or above, is just ticking low scores. My system, but not foolproof by any stretch of the old imagination!
Hope this helps a little!
Honest chances
As many of the posts have alluded to, you should have no problem finding a job, it's just what kind of job do you really want? Getting overseas and not having enough money to travel, save and enjoy life wouldn't be good. Working at a school that doesn't respect the educational process wouldn't be good as well. Even if you land a job in a dream location, if it's a crap school, it'll ruin your experience.
Your husband is working in a high-demand field and that's good. Some of the top-tier school put demands on previous job experience that you might not have. On the other hand you might land a position through an unexpected vacancy.
UNI is a great fair. Last year I didn't see many top-tier schools, but that might not matter to you. It's very well organized and relatively easy to get to if you're in the US.
I'd also pay attention to the salary/relocation survey on the site. It's pretty informative of what you need to consider. The falling dollar, inflation and marginal pay raises mean teaching overseas isn't the financial package it once was. Until many schools realize that they won't retain good teachers, this will continue to happen. Only a relatively few schools compensate for excellence. Those schools have made a commitment to teaching. Schools like SAS, Aramco, ISB and the like are great locations. However there are other schools as well that pay well and are great places to live.
Your husband is working in a high-demand field and that's good. Some of the top-tier school put demands on previous job experience that you might not have. On the other hand you might land a position through an unexpected vacancy.
UNI is a great fair. Last year I didn't see many top-tier schools, but that might not matter to you. It's very well organized and relatively easy to get to if you're in the US.
I'd also pay attention to the salary/relocation survey on the site. It's pretty informative of what you need to consider. The falling dollar, inflation and marginal pay raises mean teaching overseas isn't the financial package it once was. Until many schools realize that they won't retain good teachers, this will continue to happen. Only a relatively few schools compensate for excellence. Those schools have made a commitment to teaching. Schools like SAS, Aramco, ISB and the like are great locations. However there are other schools as well that pay well and are great places to live.
Well, I figure our first school certainly won't be a top tier school and that's fine. Dues have to be paid, etc, which is pretty much how it works in any career.
With that in mind, we certainly don't want to be at a school that's the lowest of the low, one that will screw us out of pay, benefits and the like. But I think it's realistic not to expect the best of the very best our first time out there.
Particularly, we'd like to return to China, as we really enjoyed living there for two years. Barring that, Thailand. But we're open to most locations, save those in the Middle East and Africa.
So... is the UNI Fair a good place for those new to international teaching?
With that in mind, we certainly don't want to be at a school that's the lowest of the low, one that will screw us out of pay, benefits and the like. But I think it's realistic not to expect the best of the very best our first time out there.
Particularly, we'd like to return to China, as we really enjoyed living there for two years. Barring that, Thailand. But we're open to most locations, save those in the Middle East and Africa.
So... is the UNI Fair a good place for those new to international teaching?
first job
I would not take the Middle East or Africa out of the equation, either. I am currently in Africa after having taught for three years in Saudi Arabia. Neither was a hardship. Of course, I'm a man and that probably makes a difference...I also would not expect to land in a bottom-tier school the first time out. Do not grab the first school that offers a position unless you are comfortable with the situation. Once you do sign, research the school and community thoroughly so that you are comfortable once you arrive. Even if you learn negative things about the situation before arriving, figure out how to make it positive for you before you get there.
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carlflanders
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:12 pm
- Location: SAUDI ARABIA
GO FOR IT!
Teachers are in high demand everywhere in the world. UNI is the best fair and I do not know why one of the writers said they had few top-tier schools. Aramco and International Schools, and many others, hired there and they both have excellent packages.
Go online to UNI and get registered. Int'l schools love couples. You will find a great school. We are in Saudi Arabia now. We have two children ages 3 and 7. We all love it here!
Carl
Go online to UNI and get registered. Int'l schools love couples. You will find a great school. We are in Saudi Arabia now. We have two children ages 3 and 7. We all love it here!
Carl