Let me first say that I am a highly qualified teacher in my home country; with over ten years experience. I found this job un-fair to be a negative experience. First the organization of this fair by Search was very poor. Personally I paid a lot of money to go here and they were less than helpful. 2nd the majority of the principals and heads of school at this fair were incredibly condesending, arrogant, and very full of themselves. They showed very little professionalism. I hung out in the lobby and overheard several conversations that went like this.
Principal 1: What do you think of this canidate.
Headmaster: I don't care I am here for vacation. Just pick somebody to interview. I already have people lined up for this job.
Really I don't know how these people get into positions of power. Total incompetence is the best way I can describe most of them. Really where do they find these people, and how dare they look down on me. All I wanted was to be treated with respect and like the professional I am, and instead I felt very disrespected.
My 3rd issue was with several of the canidates who are almost like sychopantes, kissing every crack and seeing how far up the principals business they can get to land a job. Maybe its just my upbringing, but I always thought the "best person," for the job was the most qualified one. Maybe I am wrong though and maybe that is just how things get done on the international circuit.
That being said I did have 10 interviews while I was there, and the majority were very professionally done. Perhaps the BKK fair is just what it is, an indescribable thing; which is hard to quantify until you see it in real life. I doubt I will go back in the future. This was my first fair and most likely my last. It is ridiculous because these schools that are passing and pushing aside good canidates today will be desperate and begging people like me to take jobs in their schools later in the recruiment season.
My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
"...how dare they look down on me."
"It is ridiculous because these schools that are passing and pushing aside good canidates today will be desperate and begging people like me to take jobs in their schools later in the recruiment season."
Heads of school are looking for a myriad of things when interviewing potential hires. I personally have found that, in addition to experience, they are looking for someone who will mesh well with the school culture. Perhaps your attitude was just not what they were looking for...
"It is ridiculous because these schools that are passing and pushing aside good canidates today will be desperate and begging people like me to take jobs in their schools later in the recruiment season."
Heads of school are looking for a myriad of things when interviewing potential hires. I personally have found that, in addition to experience, they are looking for someone who will mesh well with the school culture. Perhaps your attitude was just not what they were looking for...
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
There are very few competent school heads. Many are pure slobs, who think they yield imaginary powers and spend more time on the golf course and private clubs than leading from the front. It's a bit of cliched bureaucracy out there and Asia (including the middle east) is the worst place when it comes to this kind of pedagogical imperialism.
A principal at my previous school openly used to say, "any teacher can leave, we have tons waiting in line for your jobs and this location." Ironically, the same guy tells the parents and the accrediting agencies what an asset his teachers are and how best he tries to retain them. Hope there was a word stronger than hypocrisy.
A principal at my previous school openly used to say, "any teacher can leave, we have tons waiting in line for your jobs and this location." Ironically, the same guy tells the parents and the accrediting agencies what an asset his teachers are and how best he tries to retain them. Hope there was a word stronger than hypocrisy.
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
Life is unfair, just like job fairs and international schools. There are heads of school with a lot of integrity out there, I've worked for a few, just as there are heads of school who will lie or be unfair or not give a damn or remain silent when you need their support - I've worked for one of them too.
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
I went to the Bangkok fair last year and found it quite brutal. One thing that I will confirm was that I did have slightly unrealistic expectations of where I wanted to work (basically tier 1 schools not in China or the Middle East).
As such, I was a good candidate but did not stand out at this fair. I will say that many of the candidates did seem to think a lot of themselves - but if the truth be told I probably thought the same of myself but was not a vocal as some of the other candidates.
On never visiting another fair again - I'm now a strong believer in choosing the correct fair for the correct person. This year - I visited the Melbourne Fair and as I have a decent amount of international experience I really stood out and got a few offers - one which I accepted. Just remember that Bangkok is almost exclusively attended by people who have been on the circuit for a while and many are good at selling themselves.
You also talked about some unprofessional admin - I actually slightly relish overhearing these conversations as it gives me information on which schools I should probably stay clear away from. After some conversations last year - I now know of schools I don't ever want to teach at but some admin may also feel the same way about me - I never know ....
Just my two cents....
As such, I was a good candidate but did not stand out at this fair. I will say that many of the candidates did seem to think a lot of themselves - but if the truth be told I probably thought the same of myself but was not a vocal as some of the other candidates.
On never visiting another fair again - I'm now a strong believer in choosing the correct fair for the correct person. This year - I visited the Melbourne Fair and as I have a decent amount of international experience I really stood out and got a few offers - one which I accepted. Just remember that Bangkok is almost exclusively attended by people who have been on the circuit for a while and many are good at selling themselves.
You also talked about some unprofessional admin - I actually slightly relish overhearing these conversations as it gives me information on which schools I should probably stay clear away from. After some conversations last year - I now know of schools I don't ever want to teach at but some admin may also feel the same way about me - I never know ....
Just my two cents....
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
@Uncloudy
Your comments sound pretty naive vis-a-vis independent schools. Teaching is same everywhere, except for a few routine procedures. Of course, international schools have some edge in terms of learning technologies and PD and are for the most part for-profit, but how do you attract students and make profit when you just hire pretty or crappy teachers? Also, admin can be pretty sweet and suave during interview and orientation stages. They reveal their true colours once your novelty fades off. So, hold on to your horses.
When an administrator says he is in BKK for a vacation and not for hiring during a job fair, there is something seriously wrong with the school and the guy leading it. I really pity the school board who this guy works under and of course, his students.
Your comments sound pretty naive vis-a-vis independent schools. Teaching is same everywhere, except for a few routine procedures. Of course, international schools have some edge in terms of learning technologies and PD and are for the most part for-profit, but how do you attract students and make profit when you just hire pretty or crappy teachers? Also, admin can be pretty sweet and suave during interview and orientation stages. They reveal their true colours once your novelty fades off. So, hold on to your horses.
When an administrator says he is in BKK for a vacation and not for hiring during a job fair, there is something seriously wrong with the school and the guy leading it. I really pity the school board who this guy works under and of course, his students.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
honeymustard...you had 10 job interviews in one weekend and you didn't find that to be good value for your money? You overheard a conversation between a principal and a headmaster and from this determine that the vast majority of them are condescending and arrogant...meanwhile, 'several' of the candidates are 'sychophants' and crack kissers...can you not see a bit of a pattern here? If you had 10 interviews and failed to get a job offer it could be time to look at what you are dong wrong...
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honeymustard
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:25 am
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
lifeisnotsobad wrote:
> honeymustard...you had 10 job interviews in one weekend and you didn't find
> that to be good value for your money? You overheard a conversation between
> a principal and a headmaster and from this determine that the vast majority
> of them are condescending and arrogant...meanwhile, 'several' of the
> candidates are 'sychophants' and crack kissers...can you not see a bit of a
> pattern here? If you had 10 interviews and failed to get a job offer it
> could be time to look at what you are dong wrong...
I definitely see a pattern. Now I know the game that these people play, and I can better equip myself in the future. In retrospect the fair did open my eyes to how competitive the market is for teachers. I will for sure change my approach in the future. Btw I didn't hear one conversation. I heard several that followed the same pattern. Some talked about teachers looks, one talked about the quality of one of the applicants suit. Anyway now I know what these schools want.... Very plastic people that look good in the staff photo, and worship the ground they walk on.
> honeymustard...you had 10 job interviews in one weekend and you didn't find
> that to be good value for your money? You overheard a conversation between
> a principal and a headmaster and from this determine that the vast majority
> of them are condescending and arrogant...meanwhile, 'several' of the
> candidates are 'sychophants' and crack kissers...can you not see a bit of a
> pattern here? If you had 10 interviews and failed to get a job offer it
> could be time to look at what you are dong wrong...
I definitely see a pattern. Now I know the game that these people play, and I can better equip myself in the future. In retrospect the fair did open my eyes to how competitive the market is for teachers. I will for sure change my approach in the future. Btw I didn't hear one conversation. I heard several that followed the same pattern. Some talked about teachers looks, one talked about the quality of one of the applicants suit. Anyway now I know what these schools want.... Very plastic people that look good in the staff photo, and worship the ground they walk on.
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Cheery Littlebottom
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 8:32 am
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
Gosh I am so sad for you. I feel really bad that the whole IS experience got off to such a lousy start. After 16 years and 5 schools I have rarely come across such bad apples. Maybe I have been very lucky but having worked for 6 directors I can say that 5 of them were outstanding and one was really very good. No-one has treated me badly. I have worked under some straitened conditions and through some really bad times but no-one has ever been selfish or thrown my to the lions. Quite the opposite in fact. I am sure the types of people you describe are out there but I have never met them!
Please keep looking - there are some wonderful schools and admin out there. Good luck.
Please keep looking - there are some wonderful schools and admin out there. Good luck.
Re: My opinion of the Bangkok job Un-fair
Lucky you Cheerybottom. I was thrown under the bus by the most corrupt director ever at my last gig. This bloke would go to the Bangkok fair and purposely fail to recruit just so that he could go to London as well. In the end it would turn out that he had sycophants lined up for the positions all along.
Discussion
@honeymustard
Everyone things they are highly qualified, and you are you wouldnt have been accepted as a candidate if you werent and you wouldnt have gotten an invite to BKK if you didnt have something special going for you.
It only looks disorganized because its not a fair in so much as its a series of meetings in recruiters rooms. Signup is supposed to be chaotic youve got a finite amount of time to talk to all the people you want and unfortunately all the people you want to talk too everyone else wants to talk to as well, because this is BKK and the lower tier schools didnt come.
I never met an admin who wasnt condescending and arrogant. I dont know any teachers who dont think they arent rock stars either. Well they dont have to be professional, they have the jobs and its a recruiters market. Education globally is still recovering from the recession.
Thats actually pretty common, schools dont show up blind they recruit in advance (pre-recruiting season) and the BKK fair is really just a meet and greet and handshake. If your going to BKK without your interviews (at least some in advance) than your not really going to accomplish much. A significant number of vacancies fill the night before sign up. The rest of the time is really just recruiters refining the applicant pool.
How do they get there, well once you become an admin if your bad you just join the never ending recycling of admins until you retire. If your good you stay at a good school until you retire out. You get there by knowing someone and having connections, thats what the admin day fair is for, building connections.
The disrespect you felt wee your feelings and your responsible for how you feel, you choose to feel disrespected. If your looking for ego stroking your in the wrong field, and being an IT is not for you if you cant take that. You need to bring your confidence with you, and have a skin made out of teflon. Incidentally, being and feeling like a professional comes from you not others, no one can make you feel anything without your permission.
This is not a merit based profession, well it is, but by the time your walking into BKK the actual differences between teachers are not longer perceptible. A year or two difference in experience, an extra certification here, really doesnt make much difference. Recruiters arent looking for good teachers, they already know you can teach, if you couldnt you would have never gotten in the room. What they are looking for is good employees, and to many that means being a sycophant, follower, who a recruiter can see as a resource. Someone who will give good grades, tell parents what they want to hear, smile and generally be obedient. Being a rogue in this profession and being successful means being specia in a world where everyone is special.
There are three things you need to do a job, expertise, motivation, and fit, of those three fit is the one you have to feel in a candidate and its the one that recruiters go to fairs too find.
Schools dont beg, there is no shortage of teachers and someone who is difficult to manage isnt worth whatever they think they bring to the table.
Everyone things they are highly qualified, and you are you wouldnt have been accepted as a candidate if you werent and you wouldnt have gotten an invite to BKK if you didnt have something special going for you.
It only looks disorganized because its not a fair in so much as its a series of meetings in recruiters rooms. Signup is supposed to be chaotic youve got a finite amount of time to talk to all the people you want and unfortunately all the people you want to talk too everyone else wants to talk to as well, because this is BKK and the lower tier schools didnt come.
I never met an admin who wasnt condescending and arrogant. I dont know any teachers who dont think they arent rock stars either. Well they dont have to be professional, they have the jobs and its a recruiters market. Education globally is still recovering from the recession.
Thats actually pretty common, schools dont show up blind they recruit in advance (pre-recruiting season) and the BKK fair is really just a meet and greet and handshake. If your going to BKK without your interviews (at least some in advance) than your not really going to accomplish much. A significant number of vacancies fill the night before sign up. The rest of the time is really just recruiters refining the applicant pool.
How do they get there, well once you become an admin if your bad you just join the never ending recycling of admins until you retire. If your good you stay at a good school until you retire out. You get there by knowing someone and having connections, thats what the admin day fair is for, building connections.
The disrespect you felt wee your feelings and your responsible for how you feel, you choose to feel disrespected. If your looking for ego stroking your in the wrong field, and being an IT is not for you if you cant take that. You need to bring your confidence with you, and have a skin made out of teflon. Incidentally, being and feeling like a professional comes from you not others, no one can make you feel anything without your permission.
This is not a merit based profession, well it is, but by the time your walking into BKK the actual differences between teachers are not longer perceptible. A year or two difference in experience, an extra certification here, really doesnt make much difference. Recruiters arent looking for good teachers, they already know you can teach, if you couldnt you would have never gotten in the room. What they are looking for is good employees, and to many that means being a sycophant, follower, who a recruiter can see as a resource. Someone who will give good grades, tell parents what they want to hear, smile and generally be obedient. Being a rogue in this profession and being successful means being specia in a world where everyone is special.
There are three things you need to do a job, expertise, motivation, and fit, of those three fit is the one you have to feel in a candidate and its the one that recruiters go to fairs too find.
Schools dont beg, there is no shortage of teachers and someone who is difficult to manage isnt worth whatever they think they bring to the table.