Hello All,
I currently hold a Bachelors Degree in Sociology but have long had an interest in continuing my education in psychology. The lifestyle and benefits of working in an international school have also long appealed to me (my sister and two of my best friends work in international schools). While I don't see myself working as a teacher necessarily, I think the role of international school guidance counselor/psychologist would be a great fit and put me on track for my longer-term goals.
Could anyone advise me as to the best educational path to qualify me for this role? I know that having a teaching certification is important in making me "hireable" to international schools. But what about in terms of certifications in psychology/counseling itself?
Your advice would be much valued and appreciated!
Best Regards,
Emily
How to Become An International School Counselor/Psychologist
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emilyellenwilliams
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 2:43 pm
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
Hi Emily,
you need to get certified as a teacher and counselor. There are two kinds of counselors on the circuit - the college counselor and the psychological/needs counselor. Sometimes they are combined, other times they are not.
This is what worries me. You say nothing about your enjoyment working with young adults or children. You say nothing about an urge to teach. You only want to pursue an education in psychology and you want to work in an international school because of the "lifestyle and benefits".
To be honest, it is unlikely you will get a job with just a psych degree - you need an Ed Psych and you also should have a college counseling background for the seniors and juniors. I once had a student declined from his program of choice, not because of marks, but because the counselor who was explaining the program to him in grade 11 missed that he needed a certain course - no course, no admittance. You also need experience in your home country. Otherwise, if you do land a job with no experience at home, don't be surprised to come off the plane, be told that "plans have changed" and you are shoved into a classroom to teach.
It may be that you DO enjoy working with young adults, you DO want to work in a teaching environment. In that case, go for it. If you are doing it for the lifestyle and the benefits - that's a different kettle of fish entirely.
Not trying to be harsh, just realistic. Good luck in whatever you choose!
you need to get certified as a teacher and counselor. There are two kinds of counselors on the circuit - the college counselor and the psychological/needs counselor. Sometimes they are combined, other times they are not.
This is what worries me. You say nothing about your enjoyment working with young adults or children. You say nothing about an urge to teach. You only want to pursue an education in psychology and you want to work in an international school because of the "lifestyle and benefits".
To be honest, it is unlikely you will get a job with just a psych degree - you need an Ed Psych and you also should have a college counseling background for the seniors and juniors. I once had a student declined from his program of choice, not because of marks, but because the counselor who was explaining the program to him in grade 11 missed that he needed a certain course - no course, no admittance. You also need experience in your home country. Otherwise, if you do land a job with no experience at home, don't be surprised to come off the plane, be told that "plans have changed" and you are shoved into a classroom to teach.
It may be that you DO enjoy working with young adults, you DO want to work in a teaching environment. In that case, go for it. If you are doing it for the lifestyle and the benefits - that's a different kettle of fish entirely.
Not trying to be harsh, just realistic. Good luck in whatever you choose!
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EUExplorer
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:52 pm
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
I don't fully agree with Shadowjack on this one. You do not need a teaching certificate to be an international school counselor/ college counselor / or even a school psychologist and the vast majority with whom I have worked don't have a teaching certificate. And I don't believe it even makes you more competitive in terms of getting a job. Those counselors/psychologists that do have teaching certificates, usually started out as a teacher and then went back to school later (although some states now require counselors to get a teaching certificate). Although it would probably help to have a teaching certificate and experience just from the standpoint of empathizing more with teachers in the classroom, it is not necessary.
Basically, there are three routes you could pursue:
A. School counselor at the ES, MS or HS level -this is mostly social-emotional counseling, individual and group, teaching a few classes based on social-emotional topics (could be more or less depending on the school), collaboration with teachers and Admin, parent workshops, transition programs for new and leaving students, families, etc.
Here are the standards for international school counseling programs (although most schools fall far below these standards from my experience): http://www.aassa.com/uploaded/Education ... ndbook.pdf
B. College counselor- pretty self-explanatory
C. School psychologist- Psychological assessment and the generation of interventions to help students with learning issues in the classroom
In terms of numbers of positions world wide, school counselors are the most numerous, followed by college counselors and a distant 3rd would be school psychologist positions (usually only at the large international schools).I know a few school psychologists who actually work in the role of school counselors since many schools appreciate the breadth of training School Psychologists receive (assessment, educational psychology, special needs, and general counseling).
If you already have a degree in Sociology, you are in good position to apply and be accepted into a Masters in School Counseling or Masters/Specialist Degree in School Psychology program. Please note that you will probably have to do 2 full years of course study plus an internship, which could be up to a year long. Some programs require a thesis. After you complete the program, internship and exam, you should be eligible for a state certificate in school counseling or school psychology. And then it would be a good idea to get at least 2 years experience in your home country to be attractive at a decent school. You could go abroad immediately but chances are you'll end up at a starter school (low pay, benefits, possibly undesirable location, etc.). Good luck!
Basically, there are three routes you could pursue:
A. School counselor at the ES, MS or HS level -this is mostly social-emotional counseling, individual and group, teaching a few classes based on social-emotional topics (could be more or less depending on the school), collaboration with teachers and Admin, parent workshops, transition programs for new and leaving students, families, etc.
Here are the standards for international school counseling programs (although most schools fall far below these standards from my experience): http://www.aassa.com/uploaded/Education ... ndbook.pdf
B. College counselor- pretty self-explanatory
C. School psychologist- Psychological assessment and the generation of interventions to help students with learning issues in the classroom
In terms of numbers of positions world wide, school counselors are the most numerous, followed by college counselors and a distant 3rd would be school psychologist positions (usually only at the large international schools).I know a few school psychologists who actually work in the role of school counselors since many schools appreciate the breadth of training School Psychologists receive (assessment, educational psychology, special needs, and general counseling).
If you already have a degree in Sociology, you are in good position to apply and be accepted into a Masters in School Counseling or Masters/Specialist Degree in School Psychology program. Please note that you will probably have to do 2 full years of course study plus an internship, which could be up to a year long. Some programs require a thesis. After you complete the program, internship and exam, you should be eligible for a state certificate in school counseling or school psychology. And then it would be a good idea to get at least 2 years experience in your home country to be attractive at a decent school. You could go abroad immediately but chances are you'll end up at a starter school (low pay, benefits, possibly undesirable location, etc.). Good luck!
Last edited by EUExplorer on Wed May 28, 2014 8:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
Hi Emily,
My mom is looking to do this right now as well and wanted to give you more info. She has her Ed.D and has been practicing in schools and on her own (private practice) for 10 years. In addition to a certificate, one should be licensed in a state. Each state has varying levels of hours, but for my mom, she needed to put in 3000 hrs to be certified in Maryland. The good news is if my mom was able to do this at 58, then you can do it as well. I wish you all the best!
My mom is looking to do this right now as well and wanted to give you more info. She has her Ed.D and has been practicing in schools and on her own (private practice) for 10 years. In addition to a certificate, one should be licensed in a state. Each state has varying levels of hours, but for my mom, she needed to put in 3000 hrs to be certified in Maryland. The good news is if my mom was able to do this at 58, then you can do it as well. I wish you all the best!
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Mixedbagofnuts
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 8:43 am
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
It's pretty easy to explain. Go to a local university( state colleges are cheaper) enter into a School Counselor program or over seas they aren't strictly hiring individuals with M.E.d - School Counselor. At the country I work in the school has hired individuals with Psychology degrees due to the country not having a school counseling program. Thus schools with hire Social Workers/Mental Health Counselors that type of deal...
My suggestion is if you want to be a school counselor... get it in that field....It will probably take two years... 1 year of classes... 1 year of internship ( this is for the M.E.d in School Counselor certification)...
Try to get certified K-12 ... your primary certification will consist of say a full year of interning at a high school and you can get a sort an additional certification if you pull in some hours at a Middle School/Elementary level and that way you walk knowing not only which grade level you prefer to work with..... Some states certifcations are split between grades 1-5 and 6-12. So some people are also certified to be a Counselor in grades 6-12 and not 1-5. My suggestion is find out the requirements to get certified in both. It will probably mean that you will have to tack on an additional 150-250 hours on to your internship but it's worth it...it also gives you the experience on the resume for when you apply for jobs abroad.... jobs abroad really don't ask what your certification is for in terms of K-12 ... just as long as you are a certified school counselor...
In my opinion it's very easy to become certified and can talk to you about this more if you want... drop your email and well talk.
Any other questions?
My suggestion is if you want to be a school counselor... get it in that field....It will probably take two years... 1 year of classes... 1 year of internship ( this is for the M.E.d in School Counselor certification)...
Try to get certified K-12 ... your primary certification will consist of say a full year of interning at a high school and you can get a sort an additional certification if you pull in some hours at a Middle School/Elementary level and that way you walk knowing not only which grade level you prefer to work with..... Some states certifcations are split between grades 1-5 and 6-12. So some people are also certified to be a Counselor in grades 6-12 and not 1-5. My suggestion is find out the requirements to get certified in both. It will probably mean that you will have to tack on an additional 150-250 hours on to your internship but it's worth it...it also gives you the experience on the resume for when you apply for jobs abroad.... jobs abroad really don't ask what your certification is for in terms of K-12 ... just as long as you are a certified school counselor...
In my opinion it's very easy to become certified and can talk to you about this more if you want... drop your email and well talk.
Any other questions?
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
I think mixedbagofnuts got it right.
1. Get a regional certification that allows you to be a K-12 school counselor (I think States in the US only do k-12 certs). You will probably first need to get an M. Ed in guidance and counseling and pass your state test to get the cert.
2. Start looking for jobs both internationally and locally. Some people will tell you that you need local experience before going international. For counselors this just isn't true. However, be prepared to stick it out in a crappy school for a few years, once you hit the ground.
1. Get a regional certification that allows you to be a K-12 school counselor (I think States in the US only do k-12 certs). You will probably first need to get an M. Ed in guidance and counseling and pass your state test to get the cert.
2. Start looking for jobs both internationally and locally. Some people will tell you that you need local experience before going international. For counselors this just isn't true. However, be prepared to stick it out in a crappy school for a few years, once you hit the ground.
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
Hi,
I'm a licensed school counselor in my state in the US. I went to school for a Master's in Counseling with a specialization in school counseling. School counselors are trained to handle personal/social, academic and career counseling and are not 'therapists'. The model here http://www.aassa.com/uploaded/Education ... ndbook.pdf
is largely based on the American School Counseling Association model.
From what I've seen in international schools, counseling can take a couple forms; college counseling, traditional school counseling, and counselor/therapist. The last one is, I think, the least common. College counseling requires no specific degree, but it does require experience in admissions or as a high school counselor.
I recommend getting your certification/licensure in school counseling. This will give you the the background and (through the internship) the experience to become comfortable and somewhat knowledgeable about the job. Go ahead and try to get a job internationally, but be aware that you may not be able to do so without some experience at home.
After working for 12 years in the US, the last 9 in a high school, I am working as a college counselor overseas. Next year I will move to a different continent and work again as a school counselor. It's a fabulous experience. I work with great student and colleagues and I learn new things every week, if not every day.
Best of luck!
I'm a licensed school counselor in my state in the US. I went to school for a Master's in Counseling with a specialization in school counseling. School counselors are trained to handle personal/social, academic and career counseling and are not 'therapists'. The model here http://www.aassa.com/uploaded/Education ... ndbook.pdf
is largely based on the American School Counseling Association model.
From what I've seen in international schools, counseling can take a couple forms; college counseling, traditional school counseling, and counselor/therapist. The last one is, I think, the least common. College counseling requires no specific degree, but it does require experience in admissions or as a high school counselor.
I recommend getting your certification/licensure in school counseling. This will give you the the background and (through the internship) the experience to become comfortable and somewhat knowledgeable about the job. Go ahead and try to get a job internationally, but be aware that you may not be able to do so without some experience at home.
After working for 12 years in the US, the last 9 in a high school, I am working as a college counselor overseas. Next year I will move to a different continent and work again as a school counselor. It's a fabulous experience. I work with great student and colleagues and I learn new things every week, if not every day.
Best of luck!
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
Good advice above on the process for getting into school counseling. One thing I would say is that MA in School Counseling programs don't prepare people for college counseling. Very few MA programs even have a single class geared towards college counseling. There are some good ways to get a start in college counseling though. There are a few good certificate programs these days. UCLA has a good online program. College Board does a good, if expensive program at Georgetown during the summer. Overseas Association of College Admission Counselors (OACAC) is starting to do programs for folks new to college counseling. Taft School in the US does a good one geared more to working at a US independent school as a college counselor. There are other ones as well.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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Mixedbagofnuts
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 8:43 am
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
I think everyone is spot on. I do want to add really a critical component which I led to earlier. If you are getting your degree you really must establish which level you want to work with. I am working as a Middle School Counselor now but am moving up to become a High School Counselor. The way my school works is the Counselor moves up with the students and looping back down.. for example: starts off in 6th grade and will move up 7th and 8th with the generation.... and then loops back down... I can do 7th and 8th grade but 6th grade for me is too young and it feels that I would be a glorified babysitter... So if you get into the field and someone offers you a Elementary position but its not the career path you want.. you may or may not have a choice..... I was able to deal because I came in replacing the Counselor after 6th grade. ...
Last thing you want to do is be an elementary school counselor who wants to work in a high school setting doing college counseling or that type of deal.. in your first post you may have to suck it up depending on whats out there and the offers of course...
Cheers!
Last thing you want to do is be an elementary school counselor who wants to work in a high school setting doing college counseling or that type of deal.. in your first post you may have to suck it up depending on whats out there and the offers of course...
Cheers!
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vettievette
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 am
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
Yes to all of the above comments so far. International Model for School Counseling posted above gives a great idea of the role(s) school counselors take on at international schools.
I am an international school counselor and finishing off my first overseas post after 3 years as counselor for Grades K-12. Fortunately, I did not do the college advising which makes the position seem a little less crazy (sometimes). I have my Master's in Social Work (and state certification) w/ several years experience working in K-12 special ed in the US - so I believe my clinical background had me well-prepared for my current role which is largely social/emotional counseling, character ed and working with kids who may have learning support issues that coincide w/ the social/emotional piece. My next position is working specifically with Grades 9 and 10 as well as coordinating the character ed program across the whole school.
Based on my last two fair experiences and making many int'l school counseling friends - you need your master's degree. Either an MA in Psych or M.Ed School Counseling w/ a state certification. It is considered a specialist position and most schools - even the ones willing to hire an international newbie - want someone qualified.
So if you're really serious about it - I have heard good things about the programs at Lehigh, Goddard College, and The College of New Jersey.
I am an international school counselor and finishing off my first overseas post after 3 years as counselor for Grades K-12. Fortunately, I did not do the college advising which makes the position seem a little less crazy (sometimes). I have my Master's in Social Work (and state certification) w/ several years experience working in K-12 special ed in the US - so I believe my clinical background had me well-prepared for my current role which is largely social/emotional counseling, character ed and working with kids who may have learning support issues that coincide w/ the social/emotional piece. My next position is working specifically with Grades 9 and 10 as well as coordinating the character ed program across the whole school.
Based on my last two fair experiences and making many int'l school counseling friends - you need your master's degree. Either an MA in Psych or M.Ed School Counseling w/ a state certification. It is considered a specialist position and most schools - even the ones willing to hire an international newbie - want someone qualified.
So if you're really serious about it - I have heard good things about the programs at Lehigh, Goddard College, and The College of New Jersey.
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emilyellenwilliams
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 2:43 pm
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
EUExplorer wrote:
> I don't fully agree with Shadowjack on this one. You do not need a teaching
> certificate to be an international school counselor/ college counselor / or
> even a school psychologist and the vast majority with whom I have worked
> don't have a teaching certificate. And I don't believe it even makes you
> more competitive in terms of getting a job.
EUExplorer, firstly I sincerely thank you for taking the time to share your opinion -- I value it very much!
I'd like to know what countries or area of the world you find this to be the case (where a teaching cert is not necessary). My sister got a job last year at an international school in Japan and said she really found it to be an indispensable asset in the job search. Of course, this could be the particular school where she was hired, perhaps a Japanese thing -- I don't know. Where has it been your experience that the teaching cert is not crucial?
Thanks for your clear breakdown of career and educational paths (I would fall into the Category A that you describe). Also thank you for posting the handbook -- I will be going through that more carefully shortly!
> I don't fully agree with Shadowjack on this one. You do not need a teaching
> certificate to be an international school counselor/ college counselor / or
> even a school psychologist and the vast majority with whom I have worked
> don't have a teaching certificate. And I don't believe it even makes you
> more competitive in terms of getting a job.
EUExplorer, firstly I sincerely thank you for taking the time to share your opinion -- I value it very much!
I'd like to know what countries or area of the world you find this to be the case (where a teaching cert is not necessary). My sister got a job last year at an international school in Japan and said she really found it to be an indispensable asset in the job search. Of course, this could be the particular school where she was hired, perhaps a Japanese thing -- I don't know. Where has it been your experience that the teaching cert is not crucial?
Thanks for your clear breakdown of career and educational paths (I would fall into the Category A that you describe). Also thank you for posting the handbook -- I will be going through that more carefully shortly!
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emilyellenwilliams
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 2:43 pm
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to contribute your knowledge and opinions on this matter! As far as I am gathering at this point, I need a:
1. Masters in Psych with a specialization in School Counseling OR an M.Ed in School Counseling
AND
2. Possibly, a Teaching Certificate to make me more "hireable" abroad.
My sister told me the counselor at the international school where she works in Japan has only a 9-12 month licensure aside from his BA. I have not received an email back from him yet for clarification on this, but does anyone know what this could be? Might he just be referring to certain M.Ed in School Counseling programs that are accelerated?
Also, I am curious as to where you all are writing from? I am most interested in living and working in Europe (I worked on a project there in the past and have spent a considerable amount of time traveling across the continent.) For whatever reason, however, I have gotten the impression from the few people I've spoken to that it is more difficult to find employment as an international school teacher or counselor there. Does anyone have any opinion or experience on this? (I am also very interested in working in Central and South America if anyone has comments on those regions).
Finally, I am also wondering if any of you international school counselors have considered practicing clinically as a therapist (or if any of you knows someone in this situation...). A potential longer-term goal of mine could be to practice as a clinical psychologist. How should this end-goal affect the educational path I take now? In other words, can I prepare myself to be a school counselor without pigeon-holing myself into that field, should I want to gain more education and become a therapist years down the road?
Thank you for your opinions!
1. Masters in Psych with a specialization in School Counseling OR an M.Ed in School Counseling
AND
2. Possibly, a Teaching Certificate to make me more "hireable" abroad.
My sister told me the counselor at the international school where she works in Japan has only a 9-12 month licensure aside from his BA. I have not received an email back from him yet for clarification on this, but does anyone know what this could be? Might he just be referring to certain M.Ed in School Counseling programs that are accelerated?
Also, I am curious as to where you all are writing from? I am most interested in living and working in Europe (I worked on a project there in the past and have spent a considerable amount of time traveling across the continent.) For whatever reason, however, I have gotten the impression from the few people I've spoken to that it is more difficult to find employment as an international school teacher or counselor there. Does anyone have any opinion or experience on this? (I am also very interested in working in Central and South America if anyone has comments on those regions).
Finally, I am also wondering if any of you international school counselors have considered practicing clinically as a therapist (or if any of you knows someone in this situation...). A potential longer-term goal of mine could be to practice as a clinical psychologist. How should this end-goal affect the educational path I take now? In other words, can I prepare myself to be a school counselor without pigeon-holing myself into that field, should I want to gain more education and become a therapist years down the road?
Thank you for your opinions!
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
The one year licensure could be from the UK via a PGCE or via the University of Florida program. You will probably find the schools that you want to work at will require a teaching qualification. (the big ones because they can afford to demand it, the small ones because they will want the flexibility to ask you to teach a class if needed).
There are the most international schools in the middle east and Asia but it is possible to find work in Europe. A lot of European working laws mean that International schools there may have to hire later than the normal recruiting period. When it comes to applying it is worth casting your net wide. Apply to any job going. If they end up offering it to you you can always turn it down.
One of the councilors at the schools in my current city does (a few) private sessions on top of his school duties but the others don't - School counseling is a pretty full time job....
There are the most international schools in the middle east and Asia but it is possible to find work in Europe. A lot of European working laws mean that International schools there may have to hire later than the normal recruiting period. When it comes to applying it is worth casting your net wide. Apply to any job going. If they end up offering it to you you can always turn it down.
One of the councilors at the schools in my current city does (a few) private sessions on top of his school duties but the others don't - School counseling is a pretty full time job....
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EUExplorer
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:52 pm
Re: How to Become An International School Counselor/Psycholo
gibwise wrote:
> You will probably find the schools that you want to work at will require
> a teaching qualification. (the big ones because they can afford to demand it, the
> small ones because they will want the flexibility to ask you to teach a class if
> needed).
Again, this is nonsense. I know from personal experience that the vast majority quality international schools do not require teaching certification or require Counselors to "teach a class" beyond non-graded, social-emotional type topics (think character education, advisory, bullying-prevention, etc). Of course, there are exceptions, but these are usually schools you would best avoid anyway. The big schools that can, as you claim, "afford to demand" it simply want the best Counselor they can find and are actually LESS likely to require a Counselor to "teach a class" because they can afford to hire a certified teacher to "teach the class". Moreover, any school that requires Counselors to teach a graded class while providing social-emotional counseling is creating what is called a "dual relationship" between students and Counselor. It's usually the poorly-staffed, smaller, for-profit schools who look to combine Counselor and teaching positions. It's not what's best for kids but instead, an effort to save a buck. Like I said before, it certainly doesn't hurt to have teacher certification and/or experience, since it can help you empathize with teachers more and perhaps give you more confidence teaching those social-emotional topics in classrooms; however, it is hardly required.
Getting back to your original question- you don't seem to be interested in becoming a teacher and unless you don't mind taking an extra year or two becoming a certified teacher, I wouldn't bother seeking it. Just get into a Master's of School Counseling program, then earn your state certification as a School Counselor, seek out your first School Counselor position, do a good job there, and then you'll be set to go.
> You will probably find the schools that you want to work at will require
> a teaching qualification. (the big ones because they can afford to demand it, the
> small ones because they will want the flexibility to ask you to teach a class if
> needed).
Again, this is nonsense. I know from personal experience that the vast majority quality international schools do not require teaching certification or require Counselors to "teach a class" beyond non-graded, social-emotional type topics (think character education, advisory, bullying-prevention, etc). Of course, there are exceptions, but these are usually schools you would best avoid anyway. The big schools that can, as you claim, "afford to demand" it simply want the best Counselor they can find and are actually LESS likely to require a Counselor to "teach a class" because they can afford to hire a certified teacher to "teach the class". Moreover, any school that requires Counselors to teach a graded class while providing social-emotional counseling is creating what is called a "dual relationship" between students and Counselor. It's usually the poorly-staffed, smaller, for-profit schools who look to combine Counselor and teaching positions. It's not what's best for kids but instead, an effort to save a buck. Like I said before, it certainly doesn't hurt to have teacher certification and/or experience, since it can help you empathize with teachers more and perhaps give you more confidence teaching those social-emotional topics in classrooms; however, it is hardly required.
Getting back to your original question- you don't seem to be interested in becoming a teacher and unless you don't mind taking an extra year or two becoming a certified teacher, I wouldn't bother seeking it. Just get into a Master's of School Counseling program, then earn your state certification as a School Counselor, seek out your first School Counselor position, do a good job there, and then you'll be set to go.