"Blacklisted"
Let me take this in a slightly different direction. We were talking about blacklisting teachers - what about blacklisting admin and schools? Is it okay to badmouth admin and schools publicly but not teachers?
I understand that schools aren't people, so a list isn't quite so bad for them. What about an administrator? What if the admin types set up an ISR applicable to teachers and started naming teacher names and hiding behind screen names to discuss their thoughts about those teachers? How would we as teachers feel?
Thoughts?
I understand that schools aren't people, so a list isn't quite so bad for them. What about an administrator? What if the admin types set up an ISR applicable to teachers and started naming teacher names and hiding behind screen names to discuss their thoughts about those teachers? How would we as teachers feel?
Thoughts?
Good on you SpecialEd;)
Your post might just tip the views for this thead over 10,000!
I think the answer to your question is - teachers would feel terrible and would be pretty outraged about it.
Just off the top of my head, I'd suggest that admin have the benefit of being able to contact referees who are their peers (fellow admin going through the same hiring process), so they should be able to find out exactly what their prospective teacher is like.
On the other hand, it is harder for teachers. Consider the recent post about Kazakhstan International School. How can that teacher get a clear idea of what the school and city are like? A site like ISR and forums like this may be able to give him a hand.
It is a very good question you pose - I am sure many admin and schools are done an injustice on ISR as some teachers with axes to grind use it to unload. However, I am still glad it is there.
Your post might just tip the views for this thead over 10,000!
I think the answer to your question is - teachers would feel terrible and would be pretty outraged about it.
Just off the top of my head, I'd suggest that admin have the benefit of being able to contact referees who are their peers (fellow admin going through the same hiring process), so they should be able to find out exactly what their prospective teacher is like.
On the other hand, it is harder for teachers. Consider the recent post about Kazakhstan International School. How can that teacher get a clear idea of what the school and city are like? A site like ISR and forums like this may be able to give him a hand.
It is a very good question you pose - I am sure many admin and schools are done an injustice on ISR as some teachers with axes to grind use it to unload. However, I am still glad it is there.
I'm pretty okay with people giving rational views about schools. I'm not okay with naming admins and going after them. I guess I find it hypocritical that we are okay with naming admins, but we are shocked and repulsed when admins name teachers.
Of course I also hate the hypocrisy of some teachers who feel their education is over once they have the certification (how is that modeling learning for students?), but that's another story.
Of course I also hate the hypocrisy of some teachers who feel their education is over once they have the certification (how is that modeling learning for students?), but that's another story.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
[quote="specialed"]I'm pretty okay with people giving rational views about schools. I'm not okay with naming admins and going after them. I guess I find it hypocritical that we are okay with naming admins, but we are shocked and repulsed when admins name teachers.
Of course I also hate the hypocrisy of some teachers who feel their education is over once they have the certification (how is that modeling learning for students?), but that's another story.[/quote]]
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Really? Admins have the power. If they abuse that power, should they not be accountable? Even if it's just on a forum that rational people take with a grain of salt?
If a teacher acts unprofessionally or is otherwise unworthy, then the admins WILL and already do, name and shame them in ways that actually matter: To future employers and to other heads.
Of course I also hate the hypocrisy of some teachers who feel their education is over once they have the certification (how is that modeling learning for students?), but that's another story.[/quote]]
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Really? Admins have the power. If they abuse that power, should they not be accountable? Even if it's just on a forum that rational people take with a grain of salt?
If a teacher acts unprofessionally or is otherwise unworthy, then the admins WILL and already do, name and shame them in ways that actually matter: To future employers and to other heads.
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stellalocal
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:21 am
[quote="wrldtrvlr123"][quote="specialed"]I'm pretty okay with people giving rational views about schools. I'm not okay with naming admins and going after them. I guess I find it hypocritical that we are okay with naming admins, but we are shocked and repulsed when admins name teachers.
Of course I also hate the hypocrisy of some teachers who feel their education is over once they have the certification (how is that modeling learning for students?), but that's another story.[/quote]]
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Really? Admins have the power. If they abuse that power, should they not be accountable? Even if it's just on a forum that rational people take with a grain of salt?
If a teacher acts unprofessionally or is otherwise unworthy, then the admins WILL and already do, name and shame them in ways that actually matter: To future employers and to other heads.[/quote]
Good point wrldtrvlr. The admins do get their say. As for the other way round, there are some dreadful Heads out there, how do we avoid them? Maybe we should be able to ask for confidential references from their staff. Saying that, I find decent Heads at decent schools have no objection giving you a staff member's details so you can get some general info.
Of course I also hate the hypocrisy of some teachers who feel their education is over once they have the certification (how is that modeling learning for students?), but that's another story.[/quote]]
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Really? Admins have the power. If they abuse that power, should they not be accountable? Even if it's just on a forum that rational people take with a grain of salt?
If a teacher acts unprofessionally or is otherwise unworthy, then the admins WILL and already do, name and shame them in ways that actually matter: To future employers and to other heads.[/quote]
Good point wrldtrvlr. The admins do get their say. As for the other way round, there are some dreadful Heads out there, how do we avoid them? Maybe we should be able to ask for confidential references from their staff. Saying that, I find decent Heads at decent schools have no objection giving you a staff member's details so you can get some general info.
Reflection
Actually a a bad review for a school sticks around a while. Usually the cause for a schools bad reputation can be fixed a lot easier and sooner then the reputation. Poor, admins and teachers can be fired, new policies created, bad policies removed, even parent influence can be addressed a lot easier then repairing a schools reputation. It takes a couple of years for a school to get back to a neutral public opinion, and in that mean time a lot of things become more difficult to do.
Admins I dont get, bad ones dont get better or go away, they just move to other schools. Poor (bad) fit only explains so much (differences in leadership style, philosophy on curriculum, etc). Yet no matter how bad they are they seem to stay in the system.
Personally, Im happy for sites like these, even though some day as our Dip principal put it, Ill have a review on here, because you only need to piss off one person before your clean record is broken.
Admins I dont get, bad ones dont get better or go away, they just move to other schools. Poor (bad) fit only explains so much (differences in leadership style, philosophy on curriculum, etc). Yet no matter how bad they are they seem to stay in the system.
Personally, Im happy for sites like these, even though some day as our Dip principal put it, Ill have a review on here, because you only need to piss off one person before your clean record is broken.
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stellalocal
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:21 am
Re: Reflection
[quote="PsyGuy"]
Personally, Im happy for sites like these, even though some day as our Dip principal put it, Ill have a review on here, because you only need to piss off one person before your clean record is broken.[/quote]
Yes this is a risk for admins, which is why we have to try to write balanced reviews, that are clear and factual. I find many of the school reviews appear to be from very bitter people. Maybe if more people posted about their relatively boring experiences it would help balance it out. But, as is always the case with forums, it's often the angry and annoyed that are louder. The happy and content just happily get on.
Personally, Im happy for sites like these, even though some day as our Dip principal put it, Ill have a review on here, because you only need to piss off one person before your clean record is broken.[/quote]
Yes this is a risk for admins, which is why we have to try to write balanced reviews, that are clear and factual. I find many of the school reviews appear to be from very bitter people. Maybe if more people posted about their relatively boring experiences it would help balance it out. But, as is always the case with forums, it's often the angry and annoyed that are louder. The happy and content just happily get on.
True
Very true, i just dont find many people who are bored enough who would put forth the energy to write a boring review.
I also dont know how useful they would be. How many times could you write and how many times a reader read could you see reviews that basically say "our admins are doing what theyre supposed to be doing and no problems to report"?
I always assume that unless there is something negative to report, that everything is otherwise fine. In that regard, no report is about as close to a good report as you will find.
I also dont know how useful they would be. How many times could you write and how many times a reader read could you see reviews that basically say "our admins are doing what theyre supposed to be doing and no problems to report"?
I always assume that unless there is something negative to report, that everything is otherwise fine. In that regard, no report is about as close to a good report as you will find.
"Really? Admins have the power. If they abuse that power, should they not be accountable? Even if it's just on a forum that rational people take with a grain of salt?
If a teacher acts unprofessionally or is otherwise unworthy, then the admins WILL and already do, name and shame them in ways that actually matter: To future employers and to other heads."
I wonder if people do take this site with a grain of salt. Did you read the blog post that ISR put up about Indonesia? Seems like like quite a few teachers believed what they read. I am also not okay with admin going out of their way to badmouth teachers. Wrong is wrong, unless you are in politics when it's okay for you/your political side to say/do something, but immoral and evil when the other side does it. Sorry but badmouthing is wrong no matter who is doing it.
I guess it boils down to someone being a mature adult. Just because someone else does something wrong to us does not mean we need to do something wrong back. What role models are we to students I wonder...
If a teacher acts unprofessionally or is otherwise unworthy, then the admins WILL and already do, name and shame them in ways that actually matter: To future employers and to other heads."
I wonder if people do take this site with a grain of salt. Did you read the blog post that ISR put up about Indonesia? Seems like like quite a few teachers believed what they read. I am also not okay with admin going out of their way to badmouth teachers. Wrong is wrong, unless you are in politics when it's okay for you/your political side to say/do something, but immoral and evil when the other side does it. Sorry but badmouthing is wrong no matter who is doing it.
I guess it boils down to someone being a mature adult. Just because someone else does something wrong to us does not mean we need to do something wrong back. What role models are we to students I wonder...
Rule Makers
I think the Indonesia controversy is far from settled. What ISR or a principal at one of the elite schools "thinks" on the current situation ignores the reality that whatever stage the political process is in it isnt over yet, and is naive to think that whatever laws the indonesian government pass any schools would be exempted, it might work out that way, but no one really knows what will happen over the months to come, and the rule interpretation what ever the law does become isnt really going to be up to school admins to resolve, it will be in the hands of whatever ministry handles enforcement and administration of those laws.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Rule Makers
[quote="PsyGuy"]I think the Indonesia controversy is far from settled. What ISR or a principal at one of the elite schools "thinks" on the current situation ignores the reality that whatever stage the political process is in it isnt over yet, and is naive to think that whatever laws the indonesian government pass any schools would be exempted, it might work out that way, but no one really knows what will happen over the months to come, and the rule interpretation what ever the law does become isnt really going to be up to school admins to resolve, it will be in the hands of whatever ministry handles enforcement and administration of those laws.[/quote]
I think that's fair. When the new SS tax for expats in China was first passed, some school Directors were saying that schools would get an exemption and not be affected so the schools stalled on making the deductions/contributions.
Maybe that was wishful thinking, or maybe it was damage control before recruitment season, but here we are now paying 1200 rmb a month in new taxes (plus 800rmb a month until the end of the school year in back taxes to when the law took effect).
No one can say exactly how things will turn out in Indonesia.
I think that's fair. When the new SS tax for expats in China was first passed, some school Directors were saying that schools would get an exemption and not be affected so the schools stalled on making the deductions/contributions.
Maybe that was wishful thinking, or maybe it was damage control before recruitment season, but here we are now paying 1200 rmb a month in new taxes (plus 800rmb a month until the end of the school year in back taxes to when the law took effect).
No one can say exactly how things will turn out in Indonesia.