[quote="PsyGuy"]To clarify there are about 4-6 FRENCH language vacancies in a year, not 4-6 ALL (combined) second language vacancies.

when you look at combined 2L vacancies there are about 20-25 in a year (language teachers tend to stay put when they find somewhere they are happy with). French is the most common, followed by Spanish, German, Mandarin and Japanese (with the occasional other language. This year there was a latin vacancy). These are separate from 1L language teaching positions (IE. a German teacher, teaching German in a German school)[/quote]

Thanks, PsyGuy for clearing that up.

I know you aren't a language teacher, but I wonder if you know how competitive these vacancies are? And if it will be very hard to earn a position?

Like I said in my previous post, I know that I won't be able to take on a double major while I am in the dual program to earn my BA/MA, so I have to decide if I want to major in English literature or French. I have already explained to you my family situation, so I def. want to make sure I'm marketable for the Internaional market, but also, my long term goal is to open a Language Immersion school in my city (after teaching for a while).


So, I don't know at this point if it's best for me to major in English or French?
:?

[quote="Whatnow"]I am a World Lanuages teacher whose 1st language is English and I have been teaching (Spanish, French and English) in the international school circuit for many years. It is helpful to be a native speaker but it is even better to be an effective teacher. I have known many great language teachers who were not native speakers, and not so good language teachers who were. Often non-native speakers can address the difficulties faced by a student as they might have experienced them as well. Try not to get discouraged by the advice of those who think that they know every thing. There are always a number ( more than 4-5) of second language offerings every year. All IB schools require a second language, and French is a good option, particularly in SE Asia. By having a well-rounded portfolio you are opening up many options, so keep going and good luck to you.[/quote]

Thanks so much for you response! It is truly encouraging. After speaking with people online and doing my own research, I know that if I will be in the dual BA/MA Program to become a teacher, that I will need to select just 1 major. So, I am deciding now if I would rather teach English literature or French as a second language.

I want to be able to teach internationally and be as marketable as I can be to earn a position, but my long term goal is to open up a Language Immersion school in my hometown..

So I have a lot of thinking to do here.

[quote="PsyGuy"]In addition to what I've written in the past, there are a handful of foreign language teacher vacancies each year. Each year there seem to be about 4-6 French teaching vacancies.[/quote]

Ouch, that's not as many as I was expecting.

[quote="Mathman"]All foreign language teachers I have met are all native mother tongue speakers. Most with funny matching accented English to match. Remember that parents will be kinda annoyed if their kid spoke better than their 'teacher'. It's not just the language, it's the culture and values too(which come in for IB, and highly desired by native speaking parents) and those can't just be learned.

I'm just not sure it's a good path to pursue (career wise) since you aren't native. If you wanted, you could try teaching english in a French speaking african nation, and that could give you the immersion you are looking for.[/quote]

Thanks for your response!

I really do like to get different answers for my teaching questions, so it's appreciated.

I actually just spoke with a teacher who is teaching in Eastern Europe in an International School, from her experiences, she said that the school has language teachers who are American and it's not their native tounge. She felt confident that I could secure a position, especially in a bigger school.

So far, I have 2 different feedbacks from different people in the international circuit.

Anyone else have any helpful info?
I really appreciate it!

Hey,

I have posted here before and PsyGuy has been a TON of help-can't stress that enough. I have spoken with him in regards to getting my undergraduate degree in English or a foreign languge. I am really leaning towards the foreign language (based on what I have in mind for my long term goals) and just wondering if anyone here teaches a foreign language in an international school and wondering if you can give me your experience on how that has been for you?

Some other things I'm wondering is:
1. Has there been a decent amount of positions at job fairs?
2. Is the language your mother tounge?

And anything you can give me, again, will be helpful.

I am interested in French and know that I will need to fully immerse myself in the language to be truly fluent, so anything you can prove to me is appreciated. Thanks everyone.

[quote="ringler24"]Thanks that's great info![/quote]

No problem! :)

[quote="PsyGuy"]ESL "language" school experience doesnt count whether its pre or post certification. The FTF program is an ESL "language" school experience. Its no different then JET, or the S. Korea ministry program, or any of the other global programs to get ESL teachers into local/municipal schools. The general rule (because there are exceptions) is that "ESL doesnt count".
Professionally, If you wait until post certification and graduation to do your ESL language school teaching you will just have pretty much wasted however many years you spend doing that. ISs only count ESL experience done at basically other ISs (or your home country as a state certified ESL teacher in a K-12 school).

This is why i wrote that you really have to decide to do Literature (English) or Language (French). For ISs to really be interested in you as a french teacher you have to pretty much live the language to stay fluent, and to do that means you have to really relocate to a French speaking region. The highest concentration of those are in Europe (and those schools are very competitive, and with your family youd have major logistics issues affording to live in those places). There are pockets of french speaking cultures though, Louisiana in the USA for instance (though its to French as Tex-Mex spanish is to Castilian spanish), and Quebec in Canada. There are also a number of regions in Africa and the Carribean that are predominately french speaking, where you can, and need to use french in daily life.

ESL teaching at a language school or as part of a local or municipal school is a great way to "fund" being a traveler, but it is the career equivalent of a chef studying the art of popping corn.
First, any school can call themselves an international school, and many private/independent schools that market to local students do. There is nothing wrong with teaching at a local or municipal school, in many places its the only option for employment outside of a small handful of the "real" international schools.
Second, packages vary considerably but local/municipal schools generally provide what would be considered a "local hire" package. Your salary will typically be above average (but not anywhere near a real IS salary), a local insurance or medial plan, and usually airfare (just for yourself). Housing depends on the region and organization. Generally universities will provide a dormitory apartment type of accommodation for their teachers, and schools in asia will give you some kind of housing allowance.
Honestly if you have a double major, and a masters, and are a certified teacher, your wasting your time both financially and professionally at a ESL language school school or public/municipal school teaching ESL.

JET and other government organized ESL programs will sponsor dependents for visas, what they wont do is pay you or compensate you anymore then a single person. That means that meeting basic living expenses for your family can become a real concern and problem. So they will help you find accommodations for your family, but they arent going to give you anymore money to pay for those accommodations.
A private language school or program can sponsor visas if it wants to, the issue for them is if its worth it for them to do the extra work (and some schools dont have very good relationships with immigration departments in their location, so the extra work, may be a LOT of extra work).

You also need to realize, and just being honest with you as ringler24 mentioned, your family status is going to be a HUGE challenge on any application, with any ESL language program, or IS. It really cant be overstated.[/quote]

Okay, this really cleared it up for me. Sorry if I wasn't understanding what you meant before, but I completlely understand now.

"Honestly if you have a double major, and a masters, and are a certified teacher, your wasting your time both financially and professionally at a ESL language school school or public/municipal school teaching ESL"

This really cleard it up for me. You're right, it doesn't make sense, it's like I would be selling myself short. It's a great opportunity to teach ESL, but I definitely don't want to waste any time. I want everything to go towards m end goal, so teaching ESL is pretty much useless for me. Unless, I happened to go to school in France and then teach ESL as a side job, but that's the only instance.

I'm definitely going to think on everything you said. Thank you!

[quote="ringler24"]That's great about study abroad. I'm not seeing any info about the JET program sponsoring visas for an entire family. If they do pass info my way as I'd be interested. But I'm pretty sure they usually only accept singles or couples with no kids. Likewise with Language schools.[/quote]

Yeah, here's the link:
http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/faq/faq07fam.html

They definitely sponser Visas, they just don't provide you with any additional allowance towards you bringing a family over. However, on their website, they specifically state "Although the needs and considerations of each family differ, the JET Programme salary provides enough to support a family, and there are many JET participants and families who are living in Japan solely on this salary."

[quote="ringler24"]I know this post wasn't directed at me, but I thought I'd just ask one clarifying question to help Psy guy in his response to you. You mentioned in your post that you have two young kids and a husband. Were you planning on having them accompany you on all of these experiences (study abroad, ESL teacher)? I think it's a big question because realistically while all of the experiences might be great for your resume they might not be feasible to be done with your family in tow. International schools can sponsor visas for dependents but I'm thinking straight language schools and programs like Jet are not geared towards families.[/quote]

No, no problem!

For study abroad, I am actually working with my university now. So they are helping me with studying abroad for a semester or a year with my family tagging along as well. It's just a lot of preperation, so that's why we are working on it now to get everything sorted and accomadated.

I reviewd the JET Program's website recently and actually they do offer accomadation for dependants. They have accomadation for the family, health insurance, visas, etc. So, they are quite family friendyl :)

For the French teaching, the program itself doesn't do much anyway even for single applicants. There is no housing or anything like that, you are given a basic student salary. But depending on the school, they may help with accomadation. But, if not, that will be handled on my own expense and of course, there is always CAF in France which mny of the participants apply for. So, I would be using that to assist with my family situation as well.

It's doable, but it all just takes lots of planning. I am just now starting college, so these things aren't happening this year or anything, but that's how much time I need to completly plan everything out.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add in my last post an additional question. What do you think about teaching abroad outside of International Schools? Like, in a public school in France or in another country? Or even differnt ESL organizations (although I am not sure if threre are many outside of the French Assitant and JET Program)? Are these good opportunities? Do they usually provide housing and what not? How hard is it to land a position at a public school abroad?

[quote="PsyGuy"]ESL teachers in the real IS circuit pay the same to foreign hired ESL teachers as they do an English Lit teacher. Salary is based on level of degree, and years experience, not what subject you teach? ESL and Literature have about the same level of demand.

It's best to do any ESL teaching early in your life before you become a professional teacher. The ISs don't count ESL teaching experience, unless your coming from a known IS,it's post certification, etc.

How do you plan on using the language and remaining fluent if your not using your French daily and in practice?

You don't use L1 the students naive language in many forms of ESL instruction, unless your in a bilingual program. Reverting to French just gives you and the student a crutch in acquiring the language. The traditional GT method relied heavily on L1, but that method isn't really in modern practice.

French is an unofficial language in Beirut, but it's a very minor and uncommon language, your not going to find a lot of opportunities with using it.

They offer both undergraduate and graduate programs. Yes you can get your teaching certification. Outside the USA the common term for a literature student is called "comparative literature" you can focus on the region though French, English and European are the most common. When you major in English Literature at an American university your really exploring a survey of the most influential contributors to the "Cannon" (the same as comparative literature). Those writers come from many different backgrounds, not just "English" as in American or Brittish, but French, German, Greek, Italian, Latin, Spanish, Russian, as well as Asian and Middle Eastern. For instance ALexandre Dumas who wrote the Count of Monte Cristo, was a French writer. Madam Bovary was written by Gustave Flaubert, another french writer. Both would be appropriate pieces to study within French comparative literature. We tend to think of many European writers as English, simply because the works have been translated into English. Of course to make such comparisons, one needs to also have studied other writers and pieces from outside ones primary focus of study. It's one reason why literature majors have such high textbook costs, they typically read about 15 or more novels a term, and per class.[/quote]

"It's best to do any ESL teaching early in your life before you become a professional teacher. The ISs don't count ESL teaching experience, unless your coming from a known IS,it's post certification, etc."

In response to this, I was planning on getting all of my degrees and ESL certification before doing any ESL teaching. I was planning to wait to gradute college (because with the program, I will earn my Masters & Bachelors at the same time) first and then apply for the French Teaching program. So that way, the ESL experience can be counted towards my resume for International Schools. Do you think that's a good idea?

Hm, well now that you've informed me that French really isn't spoken in Beirut, I am not sure how I will continue to use the French language. I definitely want to study it extensivley in college, do a study abroad program in college, and do the teacher assistant program in France, but after that is done, I am not sure how I will use it fluently unfortunatley. I know there are some other French speaking countries around the world, so I was planning on teaching in some of those areas in International Schools as well. Not sure how fesiable that is though..?

You have given me a tremendous amount of information if your last paragraph and I thank you for that! I definitely would like to furthur research the university and pursue it for my graduate studies!

[quote="PsyGuy"]I am familiar with the program, its a great program too if you want to live in France. Professionally as a teacher though its not going to help you. ESL experience pre certification, if your not an ESL certified teacher at an international school doesnt count. Its like any other ESL teaching program (such as Japans JET program, which the FTF program is very much like). You have to do it for the personal experience though.

The language exposure would certainly help with your french language, but unless you stick with it, constantly practicing and using it, you will quickly loose your french fluency. Most international school when they are looking for foreign language teachers want native fluency, meaning you grew up with the language or they want fluency. Its not really enough just to get certified in the language, you really need to be fluent in it.

As an English Lit teacher finding an IB school to student teach at, and building experience post certification is the BEST path to take... professionally.

You really need to ask yourself what you want to do, because these two paths "French Teacher" and "English Lit Teacher" with the activities you have described are going to either take a lot of time or take you away from the other. Double majoring in French/English Lit, spending 2 years in France, and a M.Ed plus, 2 years entry level teaching experience is a decade, before your hitting the IS/IT circuit. By then your french language experience if you havent kept up with it, will probably have faded.

Of course if you wanted to major in French and Comparative literature at a school in France (the Sorbonne is where I went for a year) offers such a program, and you can combine studies with a teaching qualification.

----://www.english.paris-sorbonne.fr/?lang=en

Now if i had a teaching candidate applying for a literature position, who specialized in european and french literature, and all the good stuff is (no offense to Faulkner, Hemingway, or Twain) a degree and french teaching qualification from the Sorbonne would be "impressive", espeically if you could do the interview in French.[/quote]

I am torn between teaching ESL and teaching English literature...I would really love to do both! But I am afraid that well paying job opportunities in ESL are low and are not really needed in International Schools. Is this correct? I would like to experience ESL teaching at some point though, but just not sure when it would be best...? I really do have an interest in the French language so I would definitely want to continue to study the language and use it to remain fluent and not lose the knowledge. I don't really want to be a French teacher though. I would like to use the language to assist with ESL as well as be able to communicate with students who happen to speak French in International Schools as an English lit teacher (like Beirut, for example where I would like to teach and they have French as an unofficial language).

As far as majoring in French and Comparative literature in France, is that a grauduate program or undergraduate program? And studing in a program like this will allow me to get my teaching certificate and have a degree in French as well as English lit?

Sorry about all of the questions!

I am so sorry to post this here, but private messages are disabled. I had a question specifically for PsyGuy because he has provided me with extension information and has been very helpful to me in regards to my specific family situation.

PsyGuy,

I have concluded with you that I will definitely be majoring in English and looking into schools in the Middle East/Africa to start, but I have found something else I am interested in and wanted your advice/input.

I am going to continue majoring in English, but also I am considering a minor or double major in French. (Not sure how challening it will be to double major in English and French, while working towards my Masters in Teaching and getting my ESL endorsement in my Senior year of college :/) But since I am also pursuing French, I will be doing some study abroad with my college in France so that I can have more experience with the language. My question for you is: I found out about the Frech Teacher Assistantship Program and was just wondering if you are familiar with this program? I am considering this program after my college studies to get experience living in France, being surrounded by the language, and for the teaching opportunity. But I am not sure how this will effect me in regards to my overall goal of teaching English Literature internationally?

Wtih doing this, I will not immediately pursue an IB English teaching position in the States. So, I will teach ESL in France through this program for 1-2 years. Then after that I would have to either seek an English literature position in the states back home after that or apply for public schools internationally or an international school that wouldn't require me to have 2 years of English literature experience or find another ESL position elsewhere.

Just wondering what thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance :)

[quote="PsyGuy"]I think French is marketable.

Your school will assign you to a school, you want to request an IB school, and English lit, would be language A English in an IB diploma program. That's what you want. Otherwise an English assignment in English in an MYP program would be second. The problem with ESL is you'd be likely t be assigned to a inner city school with ESL, and that's not going to have an IB program. You really want to be doing student teaching in an IB school doesn't really matter what.

In primary ESL you would either be doing inclusion, meaning you work with the primary teacher as sort of an assistant or co teacher, or your doing pull out meaning when the kids do language arts they come to your room instead.[/quote]

Thanks for everything!!!!!

This may be hard to believe, but I am all out of quetions lol. You have been so helpful and I really appreciate your answers and patience! This is something that's very important to me and I want to do everything I can to make sure that I live my dream of being an international teacher.

I will get my B.A. in English w/ a minor in French and my Master's in Teaching w/ the ESL endorsement. And when it comes time to get serious about international job hunt, I will be looking into the Middle East and Africa (less desireable locations) to get started/gain experience w/ international teaching. I feel a lot more confident than I did at first and I feel better about securing a job with my family situation!

Another question:

With being certified to teach ESL from K-12, if I were to teach at the lower level (K-5) how would that work? Would I be their primary teacher and teach everything in English like an elementary teacher would? Or how would that work exactly?