I agree with so many posts on this thread .. from both sides. What jumps out at me, though, is what I don't miss about working abroad. The back-biting. The passive aggressiveness. Rudeness. When I came back to the states and started working in public schools after being overseas for 10 years, it took a long time for me to stop looking over my shoulder.

Here's an article I wrote for ISR awhile back about this thread's topic:

http://internationalschoolsreview.com/n ... g-home.htm

I'd like to pose a question, first: Do you teach overseas for the money, experience, or both? And are you committed to the education profession of and advancing with it? Stateside and international teaching are two different systems. Each has advantages. Each has disadvantages. Every person must sort out these issues on their own, I believe. There are oodles of examples of people who have made the best of each of these worlds, and those who have really struggled.

My husband and I are currently in education in the states -- have been for 7 years now. (You can read my past posts for more details.) We taught overseas for 10 years where we paid off college debts, started investments, took amazing vacations and travels, spent too much money unwisely, had our kids and then came back so our children could know their aging grandparents. We were at an OK place financially when we returned, yet we did not know how fast our international earnings would slip away once back in the states. If you stay overseas too long (who knows how long too long is!), you can definitely get a warped sense of the value of money AND of being responsible with your earnings.

We experienced some serious shock the first few years in the USA with all the expenses we had forgotten about living overseas -- insurances, cars, gasoline, home ownership issues, utilities, food, supporting children in activities. Not even to mention learning to clean your own house and do your own laundry and not being able to get a massage or a pedicure for a few bucks on a weekly basis. International living is very different than stateside living for public servants in education.

What we also realized right away was that we were very behind in public schools with regards to curriculum, teaching practices, etc. The system had gone on without us and here we felt we were really up on everything by going to NESA and other little trainings here and there. Not true. NCLB was in full swing. Good public schools are data-driven. We were 'fish out of water' and had to learn to swim real fast. My husband got a job first. He started his 2nd masters degree immediately. I started my 2nd masters degree soon thereafter and began teaching at university level. Then I went back into public schools.

Today, we have fantastic jobs with excellent health insurance, and retirement programs. We make twice the money now that we made overseas, yet we have more than enough bills. We've saved for our children's colleges through GETS funds since the day they were born. We have huge equity in our home that we bought when we returned at a very low locked interest rate.

Public education is NOT easy. It's not for the timid. The continued required training and certifications are endless. But like I said in the beginning, the two systems are different and there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

Here's an article from the November issues of Travel & Leisure...

www.travelandleisure.com/articles/boomtown-beijing/

Well said, Traveler. And really, there lies the crux -- putting forth a true effort to understand the culture in which you have chosen to live. And may I add, accepting it as well; as long as said cultural practices are not inhumane or potentially dangerous to a foreigner. In my own experience (and I was one of them at one time while living and teaching abroad) I saw American teachers continually try to create mini-Americas while overseas, while constantly complaining about the ways of the locals. The whole abaya issue in Saudi Arabia, for example, was something that I eventually just learned to embrace yet other foreign women would make a huge deal about in open markets and stores, thus bringing undue attention to themselves and disrespecting the culture.

At some point in one's international career you have to ask those hard questions to yourself about the reasons you have chosen to teach abroad. Some of the healthiest and most pleasant international teachers I have known want a true cultural experience -- to learn and grow with peoples different from their own culture. In no way am I condoning mistreatment of any person, yet Traveler is absolutely right about understanding the culture, for example. Once you get to that point, you begin to realize that you can 'let go' of a lot of things which other people turn into drama and unnecessary stress and strife.

My children were born abroad. We enjoyed 1950's sort of living with a house-keeper, quality daycare and really great private preschool and early elementary years in the international schools we were at; yet we decided to return to the states for various reasons as our children grew older. Although we thorougly enjoyed our years overseas with our babies, toddlers and young children, we are extremely satisfied we made the move back to the states and that our children are experiencing what probably wouldn't have happened abroad -- a solid standards based education during upper elementary and middle school years and now an IB high school program, competitive athletics, lasting friendships, memories with aging grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.

We've kept in touch with friends who have stayed overseas, and realize that we are happy our children are not TCKs -- just as some of our friends are happy their children haven't grown up in the states. It's a very personal and individualized decision, I guess.

My husband and I have good paying jobs and benefits where we live (better than our last post overseas, actuallly) and so we are able to spend money on travel during vacations with our kids. We don't stay in resorts, though. We try to create authentic cultural experiences for our children so that they learn about languages, foods, housing, etc. of other peoples outside the USA. Last year we went to Mexico with one backpack each and no housing arrangements, for example. It was a fabulous learning experience for all of us.

I agree with what the above posters have said as I've experienced most of it during my ten years abroad. When my husband and I first went overseas we got rid of nearly everything we owned and stored our valued treasures at relatives. As years went on we purchased a fairly inexpensive storage unit and that worked great as we kept a paid off car in it for our summer travels, too, when we returned. We usually rented out a place for our summers.

The thing we never counted on, though, is that we lost our jobs unexpectadly about 6 weeks before school was out one year. Having a place in a gated community (vacation type resort) is indeed a smart move as you can leave it empty, store your stuff, have a vacation place or somewhere to go if you do lose your job for whatever reason (act of war, act of God, act of stupid administration) and the property usually goes up in value if it's in a good location.

I guess it also depends on how much privacy you want, how adventurous you are, etc. Do you want to stay with relatives during your holidays? Do you want to rent something? One summer we didn't even 'go home', we just stayed in our condo abroad. We also learned fairly early on during our time abroad to stop hoarding and stuffing suitcases full of USA crap to bring back to our posts and just lighten our load and live more simply.

Most schools don't admit students with disabilities simply because they don't have the resources that public schools in the states have to serve the needs of those learners who don't show achievement with the school's curriculum. As a school psychologist, if you operated using the discrepancy model and qualified children based on your data, you'd have to provide a learning environment to support your findings. International schools don't typically hire SpEd teachers, OT's, SLP's, etc.

If you wanted to be seen as a counselor, or a leader who implements Response to Intervention and - classroom environments and teaching causalties, etc., then I think an international school would jump on that. You're looking at the environment as having the issue, not the child as being broken (outdated theory). The environment can be tweaked.

On the flip side, I knew a school psychologist abroad who worked from home as her husband was a CEO in a major corporation. She did private testing for several schools around a geographical area -- and schools used her information to justify exiting students out of the school due to lack of resources to meet their needs. Kind of sad, actually, but she made pretty good money as she charged $1500 per psychoeducational eval and did about 10 per month.

I taught with Tom and his wife in South America years ago. I can't say enough good things about him, which is difficult to do in the world of international administration. Top notch guy. I'd work for him in a heartbeat.

Thank you for the comments.

Words of experience for anyone who leaves a school without good references, or none at all...

When we were asked to leave our last post 6 weeks before school was out, my husband got 3 good references from his admin and colleagues at his school. The principal I worked with at my school refused to give me one at 'such short notice'. I even offered to write the reference myself and have him sign it but he still refused. The superintendent supported him. So I rounded up references from 1) the school board president -- who also happened to be CEO of a major corporation and had a child in my classroom, 2) a navy fighter pilot who volunteered in my classroom extensively and also taught at university level, 3) three colleagues, and 4) the pastor from our church where I taught Sunday school. I asked them all to give me 3 originally signed references made out to 'to whom it may concern' on letterhead from their perspective fields.

Looking back, my principal probably spent 2 minutes per school year in my classroom anyway. He had no idea what kind of teacher I was nor what I did in my classroom. The people I did ask to support me knew me well and provided me with golden references. Once in the states, when confronted by personnel managers or college admittance officers who gave me checklists and questionnaires for my references, I attached all of the above mentioned with a note that I was not able to locate my former administrator. This also came up in the sit down interviews.

The reason that references from supervisors is so important in our state is that principals actually do spend quite a bit of time in classrooms evaluating teachers based on state standards. This is part of The NCLB Act and standards based education.

On a side note, school districts (and some international schools) will also ask you for documentation from the personnel manager with proof of your years of service -- so that you can be properly placed on a salary schedule. Even if you don't plan on returning to the states in the near future, get signed and stamped documentation from your school proving your years of service and keep it in a safe place. This can make a big difference on a salary scale.

Ouch.

My apologies to ISR. I was mistaken to believe posts were purposely deleted. It did cross my mind, after I posted my question, that it could have been a technical difficulty.


Again, my apologies to ISR.

Ouch.

My apologies to ISR. I was mistaken to believe posts were purposely deleted. It did cross my mind, after I posted my question, that it could have been a technical difficulty.


Again, my apologies to ISR.

Just wondering if anyone else has had posts deleted? Recently, 4 of mine have been removed.

The deleted posts were in response to: 1) savings potential abroad, 2) age issues in hiring, 3) a response to a person not yet a teacher who wants to know how to prepare for overseas teaching, and 4) a response to a teacher who is thinking of breaking a contract abroad. In each of my posts I reiterated responses that appear all over these blogs -- nothing new, maybe just written in a different way.

I have 20 years of teaching under my belt (10 years states / 10 years abroad) and love my profession enough to reach out and help other teachers through healthy dialogue. Isn't that what this site is about?

I've read director and school reviews that are absolutely slanderous and should be removed -- but free market posts based on personal experience that do not name schools or people? I paid my $25 to use this site, and I feel I write objectively and comprehensively. I'm offended that IRS feels the need to censor posts that do not break the 4 points of agreement on the entrance page.

Any comments?

Just wondering if anyone else has had posts deleted? Recently, 4 of mine have been removed.

The deleted posts were in response to: 1) savings potential abroad, 2) age issues in hiring, 3) a response to a person not yet a teacher who wants to know how to prepare for overseas teaching, and 4) a response to a teacher who is thinking of breaking a contract abroad. In each of my posts I reiterated responses that appear all over these blogs -- nothing new, maybe just written in a different way.

I have 20 years of teaching under my belt (10 years states / 10 years abroad) and love my profession enough to reach out and help other teachers through healthy dialogue. Isn't that what this site is about?

I've read director and school reviews that are absolutely slanderous and should be removed -- but free market posts based on personal experience that do not name schools or people? I paid my $25 to use this site, and I feel I write objectively and comprehensively. I'm offended that IRS feels the need to censor posts that do not break the 4 points of agreement on the entrance page.

Any comments?

Hi Steve. As an educator with 10 years abroad and 10 years in the states I can confidently say that the two systems are very different, sometimes not in what you would expect as obvious, though.

Since you have no solid experience as a teacher, you may not fully understand what this profession is really about, aside from what the media tells you, or what you remember of your own experiences, or what you may know if you have children. Here is what I would suggest:

STATESIDE EDUCATION
With regards to stateside education, public and private, jump in there and substitute teach. I suggest this to my university level students who express excitement about going into education because it would be fun to work with kids and have lots of holidays. Teaching is so much more than that. Almost every district in my state only requires a minimum of 2 years of post high school education to qualify as a substitute teacher. That's it. As difficult as it sounds, you will learn about the system by being inside the system. And as you go through your certification work, you will be exposed to many people who could become your professional network for future jobs. I started substitute teaching and volunteering in schools my 3rd year of undergraduate school. I can't say enough about how this shaped my college experience in a dramatic way and opened many doors early in my career.

INERNATIONAL TEACHING
If you travel outside the country for any reason, make a point to visit local international schools. This could be fun and informational at the same time. Also, read, read, and read. Read ALL the articles on the home page of this site, especially written by Dr. Spilchuk. They all read true to me in many ways with regards to my decade of international teaching. Read these forums. Read the school and headmaster reviews. Subscribe to TIE newspaper http://www.tieonline.com and read the articles and research about international education. Through much reading you will get a sense of the issues, and then truths will begin to pop up while quackery falls to the wayside. Nothing compares to actual experience, yet reading will help you to paint a picture.

Whether you choose stateside education or international, I believe both systems are wonderful in unique ways. I also believe that a person who is dedicated to a career in education should not limit his / her time to one particular system or put all the eggs in one basket, so to speak. If you teach overseas, keep your stateside connections and keep abreast on your own state's issues and accreditation / certification requirements. In my experience, the better paying and respectable international schools stay aligned with stateside issues and welcome teachers who are current and well trained. Keep yourself marketable so that you will always be able to land a job that you want and enjoy instead of having to accept a job just to pay the bills.

Again, this is just one person's opinion. Hope this helps.

We had very similar feelings abroad regarding money issues.

When we returned to the states to live (we just refer to it as our next post, actually), we were pleasantly surprised to find that food was much cheaper in our area. Eating out is spendy, yet shopping and cooking is unbelievably less expensive with much healthier choices. We do miss authentic ethnic foods, however. Utilities, internet, etc. is cheaper as well. Add to that that my husband's medical insurance is outstanding (compared to what we had to pay out of pocket abroad), and his retirement plan, too. We definitely pay less for cost of living stateside than abroad -- compared to all 3 posts. Granted we now have a mortgage and car insurances, yet our standard of living far outweighs what we experienced in 3 separate posts abroad (continents of S. America, Africa and Asia).

There are so many 'deals' in the states. It's a full time job researching it all, yet you can really find excellent bargains from everything like cell phones to car insurance to mortgage rates. Living in smaller, quieter towns outside of major cities is where you'll find the best deals. We are a 2 hour drive from a major city and the closer you get the more $$ you see. We've heard this from many international friends who have returned to the states.

We do make more money than we did abroad, yet we didn't have a mortgage then either. And we didn't have college tuition for ourselves or our kids to dish out at the time. Taxes aren't as horrific as everyone talks about abroad. With a mortgage, kids and a home business, we hardly pay anything to Uncle Sam. We really built up our retirement while living abroad and so that has been a big perk that most of our family / friends here didn't get to do.

It's different for everyone, I guess, and you have to weigh the pros and cons of why you are working and living abroad.