@Heliotrope
The OP can form a TW Representative Office, and employ themselves as the manager and agent. The capital requirement is about USD$16,000 and thats capital invested not costs. Representative Offices are not permitted to generate profits or engage in sales, so theres no tax liability or expected profit and losses to be filed. The OP can live off their retirement, participate in NHI, and after five years apply for PR (APRC), and thats real retirement, aside from filing and maintaining documents they dont have to 'work'.
I know three ITs that applied for the Gold card one was granted it, one was denied and one withdrew their application (the application could have gone either way). The one that was granted it had an M.Ed from a very average university, and a credential, but they did have the CSML (Certificate in School Management and Leadership) from Harvard, even though they were a classroom IT and not in leadership.
I have nothing against TW, it has its pluses and minuses, just that there are plenty of good reasons and for some factors better reasons (and worst) for other regions as well. TW just isnt the gold ring across all categories.
Search found 10948 matches
- Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:32 am
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: If not in your home country, then where do you plan to retire?
- Replies: 27
- Views: 82199
- Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:15 am
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: UK Teacher Discharged from Turkish Extradition
- Replies: 31
- Views: 121887
Reply
@Intl.Teach
The point is that Miss Pedos mental illness is very much being used as an excuse. Had she committed her offenses in the UK she would most surely be detained and held and being depressed would not be a cause to release her without significant bail conditions. Your presumption is that she is innocent ergo any suffering prior to her inevitable exoneration is unreasonable, but you dont know shes innocent, she may very well have done everything shes accused of and your position to the contrary is just a belief. Your presumption is thus erroneous, and based on a premise you havent and cant prove.
She could be tried and convicted in absentia, Türkiye has done it before.
My magic eight ball isnt any worse (or better) than your crystal ball. There isnt a limit to how long trial proceedings can be continued. Miss Pedo is already a fugitive. Shes not a convict yet, but shes most certainly a fugitive, theres both a current and valid Turkish warrant for her arrest and a red notice for her detention. Further, upon her conviction (in absentia included) her discharge from extradition can be re-examined by the UK Courts.
Miss Pedo is a fugitive EVERYWHERE else but the UK.
Im sufficiently informed of the generalities and specifics to form my own opinion, rather than blindly defer to the bias of Miss Pedos friends and family.
So what, my own counsel will I keep on what I believe, I need not defer to your popularity contest. More than I, find the evidence compelling, the prosecution as only one example.
Faith likewise becomes fact when the the only necessary and sufficient requirement is belief.
The point is that Miss Pedos mental illness is very much being used as an excuse. Had she committed her offenses in the UK she would most surely be detained and held and being depressed would not be a cause to release her without significant bail conditions. Your presumption is that she is innocent ergo any suffering prior to her inevitable exoneration is unreasonable, but you dont know shes innocent, she may very well have done everything shes accused of and your position to the contrary is just a belief. Your presumption is thus erroneous, and based on a premise you havent and cant prove.
She could be tried and convicted in absentia, Türkiye has done it before.
My magic eight ball isnt any worse (or better) than your crystal ball. There isnt a limit to how long trial proceedings can be continued. Miss Pedo is already a fugitive. Shes not a convict yet, but shes most certainly a fugitive, theres both a current and valid Turkish warrant for her arrest and a red notice for her detention. Further, upon her conviction (in absentia included) her discharge from extradition can be re-examined by the UK Courts.
Miss Pedo is a fugitive EVERYWHERE else but the UK.
Im sufficiently informed of the generalities and specifics to form my own opinion, rather than blindly defer to the bias of Miss Pedos friends and family.
So what, my own counsel will I keep on what I believe, I need not defer to your popularity contest. More than I, find the evidence compelling, the prosecution as only one example.
Faith likewise becomes fact when the the only necessary and sufficient requirement is belief.
- Sun Dec 14, 2025 2:04 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: If not in your home country, then where do you plan to retire?
- Replies: 27
- Views: 82199
Discussion
Thats a very American concentric position @kfssbjj. There are plenty of regions (E.G. the EUR) that provide a social pension scheme. Further, your not required (at least in regards to state DE pension schemes) to work the entirety of your life within the US DE system to become vested in those retirement plans, allowing plenty of opportunity to transition into DE.
TW ranks first on some reports, but there are other indices that place other countries ahead of Taiwan (E.G. AUS in one, Norway in another), the difference between them varies by about 1% or less among the commonly cited sources. TW is consistent for ranking high but its by no means an outlier. There are numerous locations with high quality health care.
I dont disagree with @Heliotrope in the locus of his claims. TW doesnt have an easy retirement visa compared to the ones cited. That is more problematic, but its not a critical flaw.
First, TW does have a "Gold card" visa, it allows residency and participation in the TW NHI (among other benefits) and isnt tied to a particular employer. It is however restricted to those who are in specialist fields, but edu is one of them.
Second, the most common method is starting a business in TW or opening a rep office of an existing business in TW. This allows you to employ yourself as the designated agent and participate in NHI. The requirements arent arduous either, an online tutoring company would be sufficient and since your income would be entirely retirement you woudnt run afoul of any profit or sales restrictions.
Third, semi or pseudo retirement is also an easy possibility. There a very high demand for ETs in the ESOL field. You could have a job with the 15hrs. minimum at some ES within a week or so of job searching in TW. Recruitment agencies in TW are constantly recruiting with high demand (though it fluctuates) year round. This would allow you to participate in NHI with a minimal time commitment.
TW ranks first on some reports, but there are other indices that place other countries ahead of Taiwan (E.G. AUS in one, Norway in another), the difference between them varies by about 1% or less among the commonly cited sources. TW is consistent for ranking high but its by no means an outlier. There are numerous locations with high quality health care.
I dont disagree with @Heliotrope in the locus of his claims. TW doesnt have an easy retirement visa compared to the ones cited. That is more problematic, but its not a critical flaw.
First, TW does have a "Gold card" visa, it allows residency and participation in the TW NHI (among other benefits) and isnt tied to a particular employer. It is however restricted to those who are in specialist fields, but edu is one of them.
Second, the most common method is starting a business in TW or opening a rep office of an existing business in TW. This allows you to employ yourself as the designated agent and participate in NHI. The requirements arent arduous either, an online tutoring company would be sufficient and since your income would be entirely retirement you woudnt run afoul of any profit or sales restrictions.
Third, semi or pseudo retirement is also an easy possibility. There a very high demand for ETs in the ESOL field. You could have a job with the 15hrs. minimum at some ES within a week or so of job searching in TW. Recruitment agencies in TW are constantly recruiting with high demand (though it fluctuates) year round. This would allow you to participate in NHI with a minimal time commitment.
- Tue Dec 09, 2025 12:42 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Becoming a Registered Teacher in Hong Kong (using TeachNow/Moreland Uni)
- Replies: 8
- Views: 25186
Reply
@speedracer
Depends on the candidate doing the work. TES is more practitioner focused and Sunderland more scholar focused. Your spouse sounds like they have a lot of experience to pull from but sometimes its easier to just pull the citation than it is to set up the context and then expound on the reflection for experiential writing. There are also rigid academic types that are astounding at storytelling. Could go either way.
Both programs use the Harvard writing style, which for a short course is the most common complaint for someone coming from US academic writing programs (even though AP is also a name/date based style). There usually isnt the time to be a slow adopter. For example, paper length is measures in word count as opposed to pages. Unlike the US where its rarer for a paper to be severely penalized for going over compared to being substantially under. Tutors apply a 10% rule, and penalize equally for under and over that amount. Sunderland provides a citation tool, TES does not.
The salient point really should be how risk adverse are you and is there a longer view?
Sunderland is a far better and known quality, the probability of success in obtaining RT status is better, albeit it costs more.
If your spouse is keen on an advance degree half of the Sunderland PGCE modules are applicable to its Masters whereas TES has suspended its Masters. The TES iPGCE is provided through UEL, and they dont have a distance/online Edu Masters. You could always apply for any program as a transfer student using the UEL transcript but why take those risks when you can move from the Sunderland dlPGCE into their DL/Online Masters (lower cost being the obvious retort). A Masters has real value in IE, and you didnt mention them already having one, so if you have to do half the degree anyway, its a reasonable option at some point to finish the other half given the value add in real coin.
Depends on the candidate doing the work. TES is more practitioner focused and Sunderland more scholar focused. Your spouse sounds like they have a lot of experience to pull from but sometimes its easier to just pull the citation than it is to set up the context and then expound on the reflection for experiential writing. There are also rigid academic types that are astounding at storytelling. Could go either way.
Both programs use the Harvard writing style, which for a short course is the most common complaint for someone coming from US academic writing programs (even though AP is also a name/date based style). There usually isnt the time to be a slow adopter. For example, paper length is measures in word count as opposed to pages. Unlike the US where its rarer for a paper to be severely penalized for going over compared to being substantially under. Tutors apply a 10% rule, and penalize equally for under and over that amount. Sunderland provides a citation tool, TES does not.
The salient point really should be how risk adverse are you and is there a longer view?
Sunderland is a far better and known quality, the probability of success in obtaining RT status is better, albeit it costs more.
If your spouse is keen on an advance degree half of the Sunderland PGCE modules are applicable to its Masters whereas TES has suspended its Masters. The TES iPGCE is provided through UEL, and they dont have a distance/online Edu Masters. You could always apply for any program as a transfer student using the UEL transcript but why take those risks when you can move from the Sunderland dlPGCE into their DL/Online Masters (lower cost being the obvious retort). A Masters has real value in IE, and you didnt mention them already having one, so if you have to do half the degree anyway, its a reasonable option at some point to finish the other half given the value add in real coin.
- Tue Dec 09, 2025 12:18 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: IB Leadership/Educator Courses - Online Delivery? The cheapest?
- Replies: 4
- Views: 67009
Comment
^
This is what happens when AI hallucinates. No one in IE, not any stakeholder thinks that a TOEFL exam is valuable for IE recruiting. Youre either need to be from from a list of NES regions or you arent, or you dont need to be.
This is what happens when AI hallucinates. No one in IE, not any stakeholder thinks that a TOEFL exam is valuable for IE recruiting. Youre either need to be from from a list of NES regions or you arent, or you dont need to be.
- Tue Dec 09, 2025 12:12 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: If not in your home country, then where do you plan to retire?
- Replies: 27
- Views: 82199
Comment
Id prefer Spain (theres a new digital nomad visa).
- Tue Dec 09, 2025 12:08 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
- Replies: 32
- Views: 143844
Comment
@Heliotrope
We disagree.
We disagree.
- Sat Dec 06, 2025 10:26 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
- Replies: 32
- Views: 143844
Reply
@Heliotrope
My theory and model is valid and reliable. @Heliotrope isnt the representative for all or even mostly all experts. Its not my theory I didnt postulate it. Its an accurate and reliable published theory and model that I agree with.
Yes, we disagree.
My theory and model is valid and reliable. @Heliotrope isnt the representative for all or even mostly all experts. Its not my theory I didnt postulate it. Its an accurate and reliable published theory and model that I agree with.
Yes, we disagree.
- Sat Dec 06, 2025 4:10 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
- Replies: 32
- Views: 143844
Reply
@Heliotrope
There absolutely could be a a representative of all experts in a field, and an edu could certainly be that representative.
@Heliotrope isnt that representative, such that @Heliotrope isnt in a position to inform what all experts in a field agree upon, and further there isnt consensus. You have a theory and a model that you think is supported by some body of research, which doesnt make it a fact. I likewise have a theory and a model, and its not a fact but its no different than your theory and model.
We disagree.
There absolutely could be a a representative of all experts in a field, and an edu could certainly be that representative.
@Heliotrope isnt that representative, such that @Heliotrope isnt in a position to inform what all experts in a field agree upon, and further there isnt consensus. You have a theory and a model that you think is supported by some body of research, which doesnt make it a fact. I likewise have a theory and a model, and its not a fact but its no different than your theory and model.
We disagree.
- Fri Dec 05, 2025 9:16 am
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Health Insurance for Dependents - UAE and Saudi
- Replies: 24
- Views: 82746
Comment
@Heliotrope
So we agree, must be a full moon somewhere.
My current IS covers the US, but prior to that I did have one IS that also covered the US but it was very limited and restricted.
So we agree, must be a full moon somewhere.
My current IS covers the US, but prior to that I did have one IS that also covered the US but it was very limited and restricted.
- Fri Dec 05, 2025 9:13 am
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Teacher Wrongfully Detained in Russia 2021
- Replies: 32
- Views: 143844
Comment
@Heliotrope
You neither represent all experts, nor would ALL of them agree with @Heliotrope.
We disagree.
You neither represent all experts, nor would ALL of them agree with @Heliotrope.
We disagree.
- Thu Dec 04, 2025 3:27 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Becoming a Registered Teacher in Hong Kong (using TeachNow/Moreland Uni)
- Replies: 8
- Views: 25186
Reply
@speedracer
Yes, HK ISs/DSs hire PTs all the time. The hard part of working in HK is getting in, once youre on the inside there isnt a shortage of employment options. What you will find though is:
1) Its not uncommon outside the upper tier ISs to have a lower salary scale for PTs vs. RTs.
2) Youre credential is always tied to the employing IS/DS. They control it and were your spouse not having an alternative option for right of residence and income (they can rely on you for both) it would present some logistical complications for others.
3) There really is a caste mentality in ISs/DSs between PTs and RTs, with RTs being viewed as "real" edus.
The Uni. Sunderland program you want is this one:
https://www.sunderland.ac.uk/study/educ ... tional-dl/
Another option would be the HK specific iPGCE out of TES which you can find here:
https://www.tes.com/institute/courses/ipgce
Both programs will allow your spouse to obtain RT status, though the Sunderland program is seen as superior (especially if they want to pursue a Masters) and is more of a known entity with a higher probability of a successful outcome with the HK MOE. Though the iPGCE is less coin at £5,880 vs. Sunderlands £8,387. They are both registered course providers in HK.
A long shot might be the Uni. Buckingham which has a PGCE for International Trainees (Hong Kong), but they arent a registered course provider, and they are only a few hundred less coin than TES.
Another long shot option is doing the M.Ed from UPe, but they would likely have to do both STEM and Humanities tracks and both secondary and Primary tracks, and this is key they would have to allow them to do the IB Internship course which is key to completing the HK requirement for an academic field experience component. The cost would be about USD$7,260 which would be less coin than the other two options and would provide for a full Masters, but its contingent on the availability of that internship course. It would also take about twice as long as the other two options. They arent a registered course provider either, but UPe only recently gained an appropriate level of accreditation (WASC).
Yes, HK ISs/DSs hire PTs all the time. The hard part of working in HK is getting in, once youre on the inside there isnt a shortage of employment options. What you will find though is:
1) Its not uncommon outside the upper tier ISs to have a lower salary scale for PTs vs. RTs.
2) Youre credential is always tied to the employing IS/DS. They control it and were your spouse not having an alternative option for right of residence and income (they can rely on you for both) it would present some logistical complications for others.
3) There really is a caste mentality in ISs/DSs between PTs and RTs, with RTs being viewed as "real" edus.
The Uni. Sunderland program you want is this one:
https://www.sunderland.ac.uk/study/educ ... tional-dl/
Another option would be the HK specific iPGCE out of TES which you can find here:
https://www.tes.com/institute/courses/ipgce
Both programs will allow your spouse to obtain RT status, though the Sunderland program is seen as superior (especially if they want to pursue a Masters) and is more of a known entity with a higher probability of a successful outcome with the HK MOE. Though the iPGCE is less coin at £5,880 vs. Sunderlands £8,387. They are both registered course providers in HK.
A long shot might be the Uni. Buckingham which has a PGCE for International Trainees (Hong Kong), but they arent a registered course provider, and they are only a few hundred less coin than TES.
Another long shot option is doing the M.Ed from UPe, but they would likely have to do both STEM and Humanities tracks and both secondary and Primary tracks, and this is key they would have to allow them to do the IB Internship course which is key to completing the HK requirement for an academic field experience component. The cost would be about USD$7,260 which would be less coin than the other two options and would provide for a full Masters, but its contingent on the availability of that internship course. It would also take about twice as long as the other two options. They arent a registered course provider either, but UPe only recently gained an appropriate level of accreditation (WASC).
- Thu Dec 04, 2025 2:34 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Career Advice - Computer Science + EdTech
- Replies: 8
- Views: 34675
Response
@padcf
Short Answer: The Shanghai position has superior value.
Long Answer:
This is going to come with a lot of bad news.
First, Youre not likely at a tier 2 IS.
Vietnam is somewhat of an abnormality, its has a very small first tier, an almost non-existent second tier, and a heavy third tier. Youre likely at a floater tier three IS.
Second, Youre not really an Ed.T..
Do you receive release time for the Ed.T TLR role?
At 20% no one really thinks your an Ed.T., its too insignificant. At best youre an ICT/CS IT who provides tech support. If you dont get release credit/time or TLR comp than youre an ICT/IT who volunteers tech support for your IS.
Sure you get the line item on your resume and thats good compared to nothing but its a vanity title.
Third, Whats the specifics of the HOD position? How many reports will you have? How much of a budget or other resources will you oversee? What deliverables will you be responsible for producing? How much will the role be part of your contract?
If the department is just you or a couple people (youre essentially supervising yourself), youre not overseeing any meaningful resources, youre not responsible for producing anything beyond summaries, and/or again youre not getting any release time from your instructional time, or TLR compensation (youre essentially a volunteer). Than youre bargaining a lot for another trivial line item on your resume.
Even if you do get release time, with two TLR obligations (assuming each is 20%), youre starting to look like youre only a part time IT, 'too little butter spread over too much bread'.
Fourth, If you take the Shanghai position youll never be the Dir. Ed.T.. or in Ed.T. leadership.
If it really is a first tier or elite tier IS. Youre too valuable in the classroom and youll never get to Ed.T for long enough that there wont be someone with more seniority or recent Ed.T experience above you to move into the Dir. Ed.T. role. Without it youll never be the superior candidate as an internal hire. Most upper tier IS will choose to recruit externally someone with leadership level Ed.T. experience, which you wont really have, since they can afford the coin to hire someone with leadership Ed.T. experience. The skill sets are different between an Ed.T whose forte is mostly technical and instruction adjacent compared to the management and business skills you need in a leadership role. You wont have that, not to the degree a first tier IS is going to recruit for.
So youd need to make your decision with that in mind, and before you get to your rebuttal, you wont leave either.
You have two K12/KS age children who will get comfortable at this upper tier IS and you wont pull them from that chasing a lower tier IS just so you can obtain the Ed.T. leadership experience, you dont sound that selfish.
Start by adding both the Apple Teacher certification and the Google Educator (or one of the related) certification. Those encompass a lot of ISs youre missing because they dont see you being on board with their platform and there are a lot of ISs on those platforms.
Next, Youre goal is Ed.T consulting so (drawing Nerf sword), I dub thee an Educational Technology consultant, stand and be recognized. Youre goal is one youve already achieved, its time to hang a shingle.
Take the Shanghai job so you get outside of Vietnam and you have an upper tier IS on your resume. You can spin the classroom ICT/CS as opposed to staff or Dir. of Ed.T. as being more aligned with the instructional audience (edus) rather than the operations side (you identify more with other ITs in both their needs and their fears, because youre one of them).
So do the business formation paperwork make a website and start the clock on your Ed.T. consultancy even if you dont get any clients to begin with. It will give you an establishment date for your consultancy longer than doing so later. If your spouse works with you they can be the office manager and handle the operations aspect while you predominately have weekend bookings where youre going to other institutions and training them on Google Classroom, MS, or Apple integration (among other tech implementations). There are a slew of Ed.T. apps you can certify on through Coursera (which you can add to your consultancy website).
There isnt any real value staying at your current IS unless its a hard line with your spouse (which it doesnt sound like it is). They are essentially giving you vanity titles which arent worth the real value your alternative opportunity gives you.
Short Answer: The Shanghai position has superior value.
Long Answer:
This is going to come with a lot of bad news.
First, Youre not likely at a tier 2 IS.
Vietnam is somewhat of an abnormality, its has a very small first tier, an almost non-existent second tier, and a heavy third tier. Youre likely at a floater tier three IS.
Second, Youre not really an Ed.T..
Do you receive release time for the Ed.T TLR role?
At 20% no one really thinks your an Ed.T., its too insignificant. At best youre an ICT/CS IT who provides tech support. If you dont get release credit/time or TLR comp than youre an ICT/IT who volunteers tech support for your IS.
Sure you get the line item on your resume and thats good compared to nothing but its a vanity title.
Third, Whats the specifics of the HOD position? How many reports will you have? How much of a budget or other resources will you oversee? What deliverables will you be responsible for producing? How much will the role be part of your contract?
If the department is just you or a couple people (youre essentially supervising yourself), youre not overseeing any meaningful resources, youre not responsible for producing anything beyond summaries, and/or again youre not getting any release time from your instructional time, or TLR compensation (youre essentially a volunteer). Than youre bargaining a lot for another trivial line item on your resume.
Even if you do get release time, with two TLR obligations (assuming each is 20%), youre starting to look like youre only a part time IT, 'too little butter spread over too much bread'.
Fourth, If you take the Shanghai position youll never be the Dir. Ed.T.. or in Ed.T. leadership.
If it really is a first tier or elite tier IS. Youre too valuable in the classroom and youll never get to Ed.T for long enough that there wont be someone with more seniority or recent Ed.T experience above you to move into the Dir. Ed.T. role. Without it youll never be the superior candidate as an internal hire. Most upper tier IS will choose to recruit externally someone with leadership level Ed.T. experience, which you wont really have, since they can afford the coin to hire someone with leadership Ed.T. experience. The skill sets are different between an Ed.T whose forte is mostly technical and instruction adjacent compared to the management and business skills you need in a leadership role. You wont have that, not to the degree a first tier IS is going to recruit for.
So youd need to make your decision with that in mind, and before you get to your rebuttal, you wont leave either.
You have two K12/KS age children who will get comfortable at this upper tier IS and you wont pull them from that chasing a lower tier IS just so you can obtain the Ed.T. leadership experience, you dont sound that selfish.
Start by adding both the Apple Teacher certification and the Google Educator (or one of the related) certification. Those encompass a lot of ISs youre missing because they dont see you being on board with their platform and there are a lot of ISs on those platforms.
Next, Youre goal is Ed.T consulting so (drawing Nerf sword), I dub thee an Educational Technology consultant, stand and be recognized. Youre goal is one youve already achieved, its time to hang a shingle.
Take the Shanghai job so you get outside of Vietnam and you have an upper tier IS on your resume. You can spin the classroom ICT/CS as opposed to staff or Dir. of Ed.T. as being more aligned with the instructional audience (edus) rather than the operations side (you identify more with other ITs in both their needs and their fears, because youre one of them).
So do the business formation paperwork make a website and start the clock on your Ed.T. consultancy even if you dont get any clients to begin with. It will give you an establishment date for your consultancy longer than doing so later. If your spouse works with you they can be the office manager and handle the operations aspect while you predominately have weekend bookings where youre going to other institutions and training them on Google Classroom, MS, or Apple integration (among other tech implementations). There are a slew of Ed.T. apps you can certify on through Coursera (which you can add to your consultancy website).
There isnt any real value staying at your current IS unless its a hard line with your spouse (which it doesnt sound like it is). They are essentially giving you vanity titles which arent worth the real value your alternative opportunity gives you.
- Thu Dec 04, 2025 12:30 pm
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: co teaching co planning model ESL
- Replies: 2
- Views: 8583
Response
I dont agree with @Innsbruckave that its "best practice", maybe popular practice, but not best. One of the major factors is both the training and implementation. To its credit Ive seen it work very well, when a lot of resources are put into it, most of the time it doesnt produce nearly the level of clinical results cited in the literature.
The reason for the popularity of the co-teaching (and planning) approach is two fold:
First, at the primary level anything thats pull out or resource comes with a level of stigma attached to it. In many (especially Asian) cultures this is bad. It singles out a student for remediation and brings a lot of social pressure onto the student and family. Which is really the point, parents dont want their child singled out, and parents pay the fees/tuition. This is less an issue in secondary outside the HRT (self contained classroom) model, where its just a different schedule.
Second, is efficacy and efficiency. When you do pull out or resource, the classroom isnt put on pause. Youre exchanging a guaranteed loss of instruction, what happens in the classroom while the pull out/resource student is absent, for what may or may not be effective or comparable ESOL instruction. Even if its timed with reading or literature (language arts) instruction youre still making a zero-sum wager that the loss will equate to a comparable ESOL instructional gain. Parents dont like that. From their perspective their child is likely doing some kind of XC program (eikaiwa/buxiban/hagwon) and the much higher tuition/fees of an IS are for academic learning.
Does it cause problems, sure, but not for long. Usually there are only problems until the ESOL IT realizes that its not their classroom, not their lesson, and they (the ESOL IT) are not in charge. Thats really the stone to steal of it. The negotiation usually comes down to either the ESOL IT figuring out how to adopt their content to the HRTs lesson, or the HRT agreeing to set aside a portion of their timetable to the ESOL IT for ESOL instruction.
Grading and marking is a grey area. Sometimes the ESOL IT reports and issues their own grade for the appropriate student(s), and sometimes its just a recommendation to the HRT, and sometimes its not marked/graded at all.
If you dont like meetings IE may not be for you. If the meeting is chaired by someone in leadership than yes thats a real meeting. If the meeting is just delegated by leadership than those are more likely to be the 'touch and talk' type where you respond to a couple issues (usually by email) rather than an actual meeting. You wont meet with your co-IT formally very often. Planning will be more of the HRT saying heres my lessons, let me know what recommendations you have. The recommendations that are best received are usually those that start out early in the AY, consist of repetitive tasks, and schedule some kind of release time for the HRT. So something like youll do vocabulary prior to the lesson and once a day the ESOL IT takes over for a period or half a period giving the HRT some in classroom release time.
You dont really see push in or pull out very often, unless its an IS with only a handful of students on the ESOL remediation roll. Its just too much coin to designate an IT for only a few students. Resource is more common at the secondary level where its just a schedule change for the student.
The salient point about most ESOL approaches is that they show efficacy, whether this is due to outside instructional factors, immersion, student pressure or some other variable is difficult to account for, aside from the quality and quantity of the ESOL instruction. The real issue for the ESOL IT is how you feel about the role. It can feel a lot like youre only a TA or AT, thats either something that you like or you dont, but its common.
If you want your own classroom than focus on ISs with secondary resource ESOL positions.
The reason for the popularity of the co-teaching (and planning) approach is two fold:
First, at the primary level anything thats pull out or resource comes with a level of stigma attached to it. In many (especially Asian) cultures this is bad. It singles out a student for remediation and brings a lot of social pressure onto the student and family. Which is really the point, parents dont want their child singled out, and parents pay the fees/tuition. This is less an issue in secondary outside the HRT (self contained classroom) model, where its just a different schedule.
Second, is efficacy and efficiency. When you do pull out or resource, the classroom isnt put on pause. Youre exchanging a guaranteed loss of instruction, what happens in the classroom while the pull out/resource student is absent, for what may or may not be effective or comparable ESOL instruction. Even if its timed with reading or literature (language arts) instruction youre still making a zero-sum wager that the loss will equate to a comparable ESOL instructional gain. Parents dont like that. From their perspective their child is likely doing some kind of XC program (eikaiwa/buxiban/hagwon) and the much higher tuition/fees of an IS are for academic learning.
Does it cause problems, sure, but not for long. Usually there are only problems until the ESOL IT realizes that its not their classroom, not their lesson, and they (the ESOL IT) are not in charge. Thats really the stone to steal of it. The negotiation usually comes down to either the ESOL IT figuring out how to adopt their content to the HRTs lesson, or the HRT agreeing to set aside a portion of their timetable to the ESOL IT for ESOL instruction.
Grading and marking is a grey area. Sometimes the ESOL IT reports and issues their own grade for the appropriate student(s), and sometimes its just a recommendation to the HRT, and sometimes its not marked/graded at all.
If you dont like meetings IE may not be for you. If the meeting is chaired by someone in leadership than yes thats a real meeting. If the meeting is just delegated by leadership than those are more likely to be the 'touch and talk' type where you respond to a couple issues (usually by email) rather than an actual meeting. You wont meet with your co-IT formally very often. Planning will be more of the HRT saying heres my lessons, let me know what recommendations you have. The recommendations that are best received are usually those that start out early in the AY, consist of repetitive tasks, and schedule some kind of release time for the HRT. So something like youll do vocabulary prior to the lesson and once a day the ESOL IT takes over for a period or half a period giving the HRT some in classroom release time.
You dont really see push in or pull out very often, unless its an IS with only a handful of students on the ESOL remediation roll. Its just too much coin to designate an IT for only a few students. Resource is more common at the secondary level where its just a schedule change for the student.
The salient point about most ESOL approaches is that they show efficacy, whether this is due to outside instructional factors, immersion, student pressure or some other variable is difficult to account for, aside from the quality and quantity of the ESOL instruction. The real issue for the ESOL IT is how you feel about the role. It can feel a lot like youre only a TA or AT, thats either something that you like or you dont, but its common.
If you want your own classroom than focus on ISs with secondary resource ESOL positions.
- Thu Dec 04, 2025 11:34 am
- Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
- Topic: Teaching Couple - Different schools?
- Replies: 8
- Views: 29153
Reply
@chemteacher101
While both scenarios do happen, the majority scenario is the second IT gets their appointment after arriving in country as opposed to traveling with dual independent appointments.
Typically the issue is two fold; First, the timing in the recruiting cycle and availability of on-circuit ISs. The recruiting range of the second IT gets really small as the range is reduced to a single city, and maybe even a specific local within a city.
Second, theres always this hope that upon arriving the first employing IS will come up with something for the second IT in a IT couple.
While both scenarios do happen, the majority scenario is the second IT gets their appointment after arriving in country as opposed to traveling with dual independent appointments.
Typically the issue is two fold; First, the timing in the recruiting cycle and availability of on-circuit ISs. The recruiting range of the second IT gets really small as the range is reduced to a single city, and maybe even a specific local within a city.
Second, theres always this hope that upon arriving the first employing IS will come up with something for the second IT in a IT couple.