Senator, be careful. The salary is not $60000 AND housing. They include the housing in the salary and then list it separately again. I interviewed with the Irishman in charge there and the more you pushed him for answers, the more he got noticably irate, short and ill-tempered, telling me repeatedly that 'I had to speak to the finance people' and 'he just did the interview'. In the end I elected not to pursue my application any further. From what I have heard from people I know who are applying there and have spoken to people already there and looking to leave, the accommodation is pot-luck. You may do well, you may get something resembling a rat-hole. Hours at school are long and hard. Local stuff are mistrustful.

I have a friend who has been there since 2010 and she really likes it. Small school but from what I have heard they treat their staff well.

[quote="Chalkface"]I am surprised to read all the negative comments. I was gutted to have to forgo a post at Kokshetau due to a delay in getting my passport renewed. The pay and conditions certainly were enticing. It was my understanding that everyone already working in the NIS has renewed their contracts too. Seems like I got off lucky.[/quote]

Pay is nothing to write home about. $4000 USD a month is not really worth living somewhere freezing cold and dark for most of the year. and from what I have read, there are all sorts of issues with granting the two flights a year and visa costs. I just feel that if a school starts this penny-pinching as soon as you get there best to give them a wide berth.

[quote="PsyGuy"]
Whats their to admit you asked a fake question and you got a real and accurate answer. If I didn't believe my reply was accurate and valid I wouldn't have posted it. I see nothing in it or your responses that would merit modification or withdrawal.[/quote]

Yeah, must side with PsyGuy on this one. He didn't work there, but then he didn't pretend he had. If, as the guy who works there who made the fake post asking for info about the school says that PsyGuy just got the info off the website, then I see nothing wrong with that, unless of course the website info is wrong. The only thing I don't agree with is the fact that PsyGuy stated that "you won't leave there competitive than when you first went in." given that you have never worked there PsyGuy, you really are not in a position to give this kind of advice. I do side with a lot of people on this site in saying that there really can be no realistic way that you can know so many schools, in so much detail, especially since you have not worked at a lot of them.

On another note, if the advice given is genuinely there to help people, then I see no need to damn PsyGuy quite so viciously, and with so much venom. I agree with the post of discussing eliminating bullying and how can we hope to stamp it out amongst students when teachers are engaging in it.

[quote="David Getling"][quote="homeandaway"]Yes, but unfortunately you don't project yourself as someone who is able to deliver their subject well by creating that website and putting it one display to every school around the globe. No one is going to consider hiring someone that slags off other schools.[/quote]

I would love to know how this has any bearing on my ability to [i]deliver my subject well[/i].

[/quote]

You can't possibly be that clueless when it comes to international schools and their employment practices. You yourself are the victim of a school's unethical behaviour. Do you honestly think that every second single school who looks at your 'poor me' website is going to want to risk hiring you just in case you turn out to be trouble?

[quote="bluesealkz"]Yup, that sounds about right. The folks doing the interviews are totally unscrupulous--they'll tell you anything. The worst I've heard is them telling someone there's twelve weeks of paid vacation--ain't even REMOTELY close to the truth.

Sorry to hear that yet another person has resigned. Not the first, not the last.[/quote]

Yeah, that is what I discovered at interview. The Irish guy, Pat Tierney raised the red flags at interview. He just wanted to streamline through the process like some chickenhawk, refusing to answer any pertinent questions and as soon as salary, accommodation standard and proximity to school, flights home, etc, came up, his smile vanished and a black cloud flashed over his head that just seemed to hang there. You gave up by the end of it and just wanted to get off the phone. As I said, I didn't accept, and thank goodness for that. Never really in any doubt that I would. Start-up school, named after the president, 'really bright intellectual kids' (translation: 'they better get good grades or else'), it just all smacked of some great con-job to convince the rest of the world that Kazakhstan was producing the next crop of brilliant scholars and geniuses. Basically neo-Stalinism

[quote="David Getling"][quote="IAMBOG"]David, I'm not admin, just a teacher, but if was admin and saw your website I would not hire you in a million years. [/quote]
Of course, whether I might be able to deliver my subject well, or that students might enjoy being taught by me doesn't come into it :lol:[/quote]

Yes, but unfortunately you don't project yourself as someone who is able to deliver their subject well by creating that website and putting it one display to every school around the globe. No one is going to consider hiring someone that slags off other schools.

Interesting to read about the failure of NIS schools to deliver on their promises. Staff have already been reporting on this review how they arrive in KZ only to be told they would not be getting their two flights home a year and that their accommodation is not up to scratch in addition to their visa fees not being reimbursed. I spotted this phony set-up when I interviewed for these shysters. All laughs and jokes at interview with very little substance. Just plenty of drum beating about how NIS was a new initiative which was targeting the great young minds of Kazakhstan, kids are wonderful, president Nazarbayev is behind the whole experiment, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, if schools are going to trumpet on about how they are pioneers in education, then why not channel those efforts into actually running a quality set of schools instead of looking at ripping teachers off at every opportunity. So glad I never took them up on the offer. My intuition has never failed me!

[quote="DCgirl"]that is par for the course as to how King George and ESF treat their teachers. There were deputy heads of school who had heart attacks at ESF because they were victimised by nasty and vicious staff and bosses.

Everyone has their own experiences. That doesn't sound anything like the ESF that I work for. People work hard, but my no means would I call anyone a victim. I feel supported by my administrators and the other teachers, have plenty of opportunities for PD, and feel appreciated. I have not met one ESF teacher that I would classify as vicious. No place is perfect but I can recommend ESF in good conscience.[/quote]

Fine. Did you not ever read the national papers there when heads and deputy heads were documented as having serious health problems which came straight after teachers at some ESF schools got together to sign petitions and go on strike because they did agree with the appointment of a certain head teacher. So glad I never worked there but I know enough about schools in Asia.

[quote="overseasvet2"]

I really can't blame schools for avoiding people who have an "us and them" attitude when it comes to work life.

[/quote]

The schools are the ones who generate the 'us and them' attitude. Teachers follow this principle to survive at schools where it is blatantly obvious that loyalty provides nothing in the way of being treated decently. Which of the two schools have you not heard of. These are very big international schools in Asia and even though you only seem to teach in American schools I would have thought you would have heard of them.

In many ways I resent your 'us and them' comment and am heartily sick and tired of teachers that seem to jump to the defence of schools on the circuit that are continual examples of unethical workplaces. Great that you are at what seems to be a good school, but that doesn't mean that you school, or any other for that matter, has the right to steer clear of certain teachers simply because they have been around for a while, don't eat crap for breakfast, lunch and dinner served up by a 'good school' and for no other reason but continued survival, develop an 'us and them' attitude.

[quote="IAMBOG"]David, I'm not admin, just a teacher, but if was admin and saw your website I would not hire you in a million years. Yes, there is a place for teacher websites, but as a promotional tool, not an opportunity to gripe about past jobs. I think you are doing yourself an enormous amount of damage. The fact that you use your real name just exacerbates the damage.[/quote] Could not agree more. It was pretty foolish but David's actions and Higgsboson's comments are testimony to what the actions of international schools reduce teachers to doing. David felt so incensed by what had happened to him that he publicly slagged off the school. And Higgsboson freely admits that if the shoe fits, then he is going to take schools for all he can get. If that means interviewing, accepting a post and then taking off mid-contract or not coming out at all, then so be it. These schools only have themselves to blame. But you know what? They don't even care. They are a business and as a business they have contingency plans for all of this. They know that when they interview someone, leave them hanging and then finally offer them a job but with reduced contractual benefit that teachers are going to fly the coop and then they lean on existing teachers to cover the missing teacher's lessons, thereby avoiding paying the wages of one full teacher.
International schools will hire people with little experience or none, so that they can pay low wages, while fobbing off the good, experienced teachers with form letters saying, 'someone with greater experience and qualifications was found' which translates to 'someone with no experience and probably no teaching license was found so that we can pay them a lot less' maybe they will do what King George V in Hong Kong did to a friend of mine, interviewing him and then sending him an email saying they had hired someone else, which is their right to do, i agree. But they worded it 'we have found an excellent teacher. we are very fortunate'. He emailed them back saying that he was also an excellent teacher and could they tell him why exactly he was not hired to which they promptly ignored. that is par for the course as to how King George and ESF treat their teachers. There were deputy heads of school who had heart attacks at ESF because they were victimised by nasty and vicious staff and bosses.

Number 2. Tanglin Trust. Another bunch of losers. People I know who work/ed there say that they hire you to a two year contract but then by December, if you are not 'Tanglin' enough, you are summoned to a meeting, asked to explain yourself and then told that you will observed when you return from Xmas break. Wow! four months in to a 2 year deal, and you are already told you are not measuring up. Why hire a variety of teachers if you are too insecure to deal with a variety of personalities from various nationalities. You return in January, and oh boy! what a wonderful Xmas you must have had knowing the axe is hanging over your head and then, if/when you don't work out, they sack you immediately after the break, having observed two or three lessons, telling you it is time to 'help you move on with your career'. At the induction, the then Head of Secondary School, David Woods, an incredibly nasty piece of work, tells staff, that if you any have great ideas and stories from your last school, to not share them. They want to 'make you Tanglin' and that if your last school was so good, 'you should have bloody well stayed'. so that is the spiritual educational awakening you get at Tanglin Trust in Singapore.

Third, Bangkok Patana. Was at a job fair where I met two people who were really excited. they had an interview lined up at Patana. I saw them later on in the afternoon and they had faces that had completely dropped. Why? They read an email AFTER they had arrived in London and were told that the school had been urgently trying to contact them. They had cancelled their interviews as they said the jobs were no longer available. I bet they didn't get their flights and accommodation reimbursed. We stayed in touch and one of them applied for another position later that year. You think Patana would have had some remorse and said, 'ok, we are in a position to interview you this time.' But no, they got the insulting form letter response, 'other candidates with more experience, education, blah, blah, blah'

So good on your Higgsboson. And for the rest of you with bright eyes, bushy tails and notions that if you work hard and act decent, you will be rewarded, forget it. Listen to people who have been on the circuit for a while and observe what schools have reduced people like David Getling. I agree with Higgsboson though. I would not have put my name to it.

Find a job overseas, earn your tax-free income, teach your one club a week and enjoy your long holidays and free or subsidised apartment. Don't ask for professional development, don't expect a 'thank you', because it won't be coming. And for the record, I am not someone who has been sacked and have a cross to bear. But I am dismayed at the direction that international schools have taken and that is why I am not interested international education anymore. The schools are unethical, unprofessional and at times, downright nasty. You owe them NOTHING!

[quote="David Getling"]

Oh well, another day, another troll. I'm curious about what it is that drives people like you and Sevarem to gratuitously insult people. Though, so I'm told, the theory is that very insecure people do this in the hope that they might be able to demean others, and thus improve their own relative position.

By the way, old sport, do try and research your facts. The "pretty much every school" is way off the mark - as are others' comments implying that I've ducked out of contracts early (NEVER), or been pushed out (with ONE exception). But then, trolls seldom let the truth stop them putting the boot in, do they?
[/i][/quote]

Mate, sorry. I have been on your side as BIS has been totally unethical, but that website of yours? Come on fella! It is the most juvenile thing I have seen an adult ever post. You do seem to have a reasonably good CV though and the fact that you seem to like Germany means that BIS has missed out on an experienced teacher who would have settled in for the long haul. But please, stop with the 'another day, another troll' story. A person is not a troll because they disagree with you!

Well, as I keep saying, and have to agree with Walter on this one, ANY resignation letter is binding, whether it comes in December or comes in April. Schools have two choices. They can either demand early notice and then fill the position, OR they recruit, making it clear that the position is tentative and a vacancy is dependent on the teacher resigning by said date. But of course they won't do that. For the most part, international schools are selfish institutions. I have found the so-called better schools to be among the worst. Some of the more famed schools in SE Asia are among the most self-centred. And yes, I have worked at them. The system will always work like that because schools can continue to play stupid games with applicants, keeping people on hold and then casually telling them there is no job. This is also the reason why schools will continue to have staff leave them in the lurch either before they are due t start or mid-contract. There is no incentive to be loyal to an international school. they are entirely egotistical, selfish enterprises who would give no more thought to screwing someone over for money than they would to killing a fly. Happy to be out of the circus

No. I think you make it far more complicated than it has to be. A school I was at in the Middle East gave us a contract in December and said we had til after the Christmas holidays to consider if we were staying. We had the first week in January to make up our mind when we came back and if we said we were not staying, that decision was final and the school would begin recruiting. January to August is enough time for even the most incompetent of schools to find staff. If an admin team can't fill its roster in 6 months, then they should be looking for another job. Simple! But yes, the school should have paid him out for three months, even given that it seems as if this bloke has a history of doing this and complaining about it. The more I think about it, they got wind of his trouble making and made up some lie to release him.

You have lost me PsyGuy. I am not sure why you keep going on about this 'two year payout'. No one, certainly not me, is saying that BIS should pay this guy out for his entire contract. The issue is bigger than this forum. Schools will continue to accept tentative resignations, advertise the jobs, accept a candidate and then when that applicant, upon receiving and returning their signed contract, makes plans to move to their new school, they are subsequently told that the position doesn't exist because a staff member who had previously resigned, changes their mind and says they are staying on. Or perhaps the school just took a dislike to the applicant after hiring them. Management at these schools are not to be trusted, get jealous and threatened over anyone who has a CV that is better than their own, and invent all sorts of reasons to vindictively teach someone a 'lesson' by denying them a decent CV because they dared to leave the school and seek employment elsewhere. You reap what you sow and many schools will find that they are short of staff come August-September because candidates pull the same tricks on them that they are so famous for doing to candidates.