I had a look at a job there last year. They have a proper vetting process since it's linked to the school in BKK so you'll get the proper papers and the salary was around 60 000/month with little bungalows provided.

They had some serious financial difficulties and the school was supposed to close and they found donors/sponsors that assured them a couple of years security.

My understanding is that it's not that bad but quite isolated and the level of English/achievement isn't very high.

Should be OK to work in if you're not too fussy and there's a golf course next door.

I think that you specifically look at the schools, it's too difficult to make a characterization. Very generally, at those schools, the level of English can be lower, the standards of admission also lower, some of the teachers might be less experience or past a certain age making them less desirable. It's very hard to make a generalization. There are excellent teachers in those schools in situation like yourself. The tuition may be more affordable meaning the students come from more modest background which isn't necessarily a bad thing because spoilt rotten kids are not always the best students particularly in the Middle East.

The mix of student can also be something to consider, many international schools are simply private schools for wealthier locals with students being 95% of the same ethnicity. That can make adaptation for expat children more difficult particularly if they are a little shy. This also happens in very good schools.

When you get an offer, just do as much research as possible on the school and try to get in touch with current or former teachers to get the scoop.

Good luck

There are plenty of jobs out there left. There are still fairs in April and even June. People leave later, change their minds, schools decide on a different scheme or haven't had success in their hiring. Heck there are still jobs to be had in August or September. A few years ago, I found myself in that position and had several offers within a week of looking. I didn't pick any of them mind you because I didn't like where they were or the schools but there are jobs out there for sure.

As was said, you can find work for sure either in Canada or abroad. It's just a matter of where to go and which school. Many jobs in rural communities in Canada for example. As for Asia, there are plenty of schools that will hire you. As a man, you will be sought out for elementary positions since it's not as common and most schools like balance.

You probably both wouldn't get in at JIS or MIS but there are plenty of other choices. Loads of schools in China, Thailand, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore. I just heard from my director that his impression is that recruiting is getting more difficult. He went to three fairs and he said there were more jobs than candidates at all of them and basically top schools generally get their top picks and vice versa. Then it trickles down but there certainly aren't any reason for a teacher not to find a job since the ratio appears to be in your favor.

I find staff meetings to be amongst the least productive things I've ever done in schools. Most of it is often information that can easily be transmitted by email or newsletter. Discussions frequently go round and round. That's often the only chance for admin to strut their stuff and they love to hear themselves talk, so do teachers mind you...

Meetings should only be set to accomplish definite goals and these should be outlined before. I'd rather be helping or coaching kids than eating a cookie with a glass of orange juice listening to the director/principal ramble on about whatever is on his/her mind that week.

Ban staff meetings is what I say

As scribe said, this is very naive and makes no sense at all. Why would a state add to your retirement fund when you are overseas? You didn't work for them and didn't pay into the fund as other teacher's did. Why should they give you this additional benefit? As it's been pointed out, many overseas schools offer some kind of pension benefit. That would mean that in essence, you would get a double credit.

I think it's fair to count the experience for pay purposes because that experience benefits the school/state when you work for them just as an overseas school will credit your state experience. What is worth exploring is whether you could buy back the years you have missed but that would possibly mean paying a fair amount of money. Typically, the state pays around 7% of you salary towards pension so 4 years could be a chunk of money with the added interest.

Sorry to rain on your parade, it's an interesting idea but very unlikely to occur for the following reasons:

1) Cost: A common incentive to start something is to be able to make a living at it or at the very least not lose money. Schools being located all around the world, it would entail high travel costs and accommodation to visit site.

2) Why would a school allow this organization access to the site? There are already plenty of organizations doing accreditation and have been doing it for far longer.

3) Why would we trust a bunch of retired teachers anymore than what we currently have in place?

4) Many of the things mentioned are already in place and done very well in many schools(retirement, pension, insurance)

5) There are international organizations such as EARCOS offering conferences already and if you're in a bad school, it's likely you wouldn't be able to go.

6) If you are talking about any kind of union, there are legalities involved and I know many teachers including myself that are happier working in International Schools because of the absence of union and all the rules and regulations they entail.

7) If someone is not wise enough to get good information about a school now with all that is available out there, it's unikely they'll fare any better with an additional organization.

8) If your idea has any hope of succeeding, I believe it would have to come out of something already in place and be some kind of offshoot of IB for example but I won't be holding my breath.

On another note, did you just discover what a web forum is and you love seeing your name appear?

I have been in the building and know people who teach and have taught there. The salaries are the best in Morocco and so are the facilities. Many of the kids are quite personable but not many are good students. Lots of spoilt brats and arguing seems like a national sport for some. The city is quite nice and living there is not much of a hardship, nice beaches, great weather, nice golf courses, tennis clubs, fitness facilities, good food, everyone has a maid to look after domestic chores. A full time one would cost about 50 Euros for the week.

There's a serious taxation issue that has come up this year. Previously teachers in those schools didn't have to pay taxes but the government has cracked down and schools are scrambling to come up with the 40% shortfall. Tuition will go up and I'm not sure what will happen to salaries...

One thing you have to keep in mind is that many schools require their staff to make their final commitment in January. That means that there are loads of jobs that become available after the early fairs and as was mentioned many schools are quite happy to wait for the biggies unless there's a really outstanding candidate. I think the best fairs are the February ones and then it's a matter of checking which school you are most interested in and which fair they will attend.

What references to charitable work are you talking about exactly? Is working for 25-30K a year charitable work? I guess the teaching profession is in dire straits if all are such poor readers. I have done some administration but went back to teaching because I hate paperwork, whiny teachers and parents and I prefer to deal with students because I can do my thing and have fun without being bothered. As to God's work, I dislike bible thumpers and would never work in a religious school as I am a firm believer in keeping religion out of schools on an organized basis. So I guess I can't be Gerry Keener whoever that is...

Very easy to twist words and understand what you wish and ignore all the points being raised because like a child you feel slighted. I never said that being paid well is a bad thing and I have worked for 100KUS a year and happily took it to the bank without a guilty conscience. The school could afford it and was also managed well and I had no problems with it.

What I do say if that if you don't like a school's salary, don't go or leave. I also said that the salary which you focused on is only a small factor in determining whether it's a good place to work. ISM is being criticized here for having a lower pay package and yet no one has talked about class sizes, teaching minutes, materials, facilities, quality of students, student services etc...

Sure a school should pay its teachers fairly because if they don't, they'll incur high turnover and high recruiting costs but to just compare salary is ludicrous.

Same with a statement like the staff is the most imortant resource and should be paid the most a school can afford. What does that mean when you have to make choices? Money is a finite resource and in most cases, schools mostly rely on tuition. Here's a real scenario in front of you. The US dollars has slid upwards of 20% against many currencies in recent years. For example a canadian working in HK would have lost 20% of his canadian purchasing power by working there since 2002 and because the economy had been recovering slowly with all the problems, salaries had not increased much until recently, some had been cut others had been frozen.

Some teachers complained about their wages. What does a school do? Raise tuitions by 20% at a time of low economic growth and risk losing students therefore possibly have to let go some teachers? Augment class sizes to pay teachers more? Fire or not renew contracts of full time AD, psychologists, counselors, nurses? Get rid of Middle School and have only two principals? Reduce the number of teachers having responsibility allowances? Augment teaching minutes to have less staff? Forget about building the new swimming pool that will benefit staff, students and the community? Here's a good one...get rid of old expensive teachers and hire young ones. So are you saying that the board should put teachers salary at the very top of their list?

In the real world, most school board look at what's best for the institution as a whole and that requires balance and yes the staff is a very important resource. It's good to have a board that is objective and are not only made from parents but also have representation from outside.

If it happens that you have a reasonable retention rate and are still attracting quality candidates to replace the ones leaving then most boards/admin will say bye bye whiners, the school will be better off with teachers that want to be there.

What I say is that a school usually tries to do what's best for the institution and that has to be a balance where teachers are happy, facilities are nice and students are high quality. What will make teachers happy is a lot more than just $$$. Do you think that the poor retention rate of teachers in the US is due to low salaries? Everyone knows what they're going to be paid when they get in... Of course if the staff is mediocre, the school will be bad but higher salaries DO NOT necessarily equate better staff and if you think so then you are insulting a lot of people working in schools in Latin America or Africa or in the public school system all around the world. If a school's retention rate is high and they are recruiting good candidates...Would you argue that the staff is likely to be unhappy and mediocre? Since you like extreme scenarios...Do you think that if you paid high salaries and had crappy students(like some MidEast schools), you would get high teacher retention and these fine teachers would make the students all better? Remember that when you have hight tuition fees, you're likely to get high profile parents and those kids can be very difficult to manage sometimes.

I have to disagree on many points from experience. You can get the best staff in the world, if they don't have the right clay and environment, it's not going to work either. If the kids are rotten, the staff will leave even if the pay is adequate. Also in my opinion, you don't get the best staff by offering higher pay, you do it by offering great working conditions which I outlined in my previous post. You keep talking about the British school's salary. Are class sizes the same? Ancillary services the same? Do they get better teacher retention? There are way more questions to be asked besides the dollars. There's also a difference between being able to charge more tuition and wanting to do that. It can alter the make up of the school and as I said before long waiting lists mean better students and happier teachers.

Treating your staff right doesn't necessarily mean throwing money at them either... How is it sound financial management to give pay rise if you have high retention and good teachers??? As for priorities, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think students come first and always will, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer since it's about values. For example if I had to decide between a raise to teachers with an increase in class size or salary freeze and maintain class sizes, I would choose the latter. The choice has to be what's going to benefit the education of students the most. I can replace some disgruntled teachers easily but larger issues like class size and environment are key. Most teachers will not leave to make a few thousand dollars more if the school environment is great and to those that want to leave to make three thousand more, I open the door and say goodbye and good luck

I can't give specific reasons for their pay scale nor do I think they need to explain themselves either. No one has commented on the tuition costs of comparative school in the region which is obviously a key point. There are many other factors involved in other to make a fair comparison, First of all class size/aides provided. Let's say a school decides to cap their class size at 28 and the other at 22. That's a significant difference in terms of revenue. Would you accept a salary that's 15% lower for smaller class size? Same goes for teaching minutes. 1200 minutes per week is close to the norm, maybe they offer 1000 minutes... What are the services offered to students? Guidance counseling, college counseling, school psychologist, nurse, ESL, full time AD, large course selection with lower class sizes at the HS etc... Ancillary staff(cleaning, transportation, technicians, maintenance). Past and present capital expenditures. Has the school purchased the land or was it donated? Are there expansion or refurbishing plans in the near future? If the school is managed responsibly, they should have and maintain a significant amount of funding in case of emergency. Lots of typhoons in the PI for example.

Other important point. If the retention of teacher is high and they are attracting candidates that they are satisfied with, why should they have higher salaries? If I am on a management board/admin, my first priority is the students and the institution. I would want to make sure the tuition remains where it's accessible for not just the very rich and basically have more student to choose from to maintain a base of high quality candidates. If you have big waiting lists, you can be choosy with who you admit and get rid of the ones that are not up to standards which makes a school that much more enjoyable to teach.

I think it's ludicrous to criticize schools and asking them to "justify" why they don't pay any more... As it has been said, a school is dependent on its ability to raise money which is mostly through tuition to pay salaries.

I think most teachers would agree that they didn't get into this line of work to become rich and I generally find insulting to hear that if you pay less, you get inferior teachers. I've been in a school that paid close to 100K US and I've been in a schools that paid a quarter of that and frankly the teachers were not any better or more professionals at the higher paying schools. As a matter of fact, it can be a detriment when the pay is high because you get "dead wood" that won't leave...

My comment to teachers that are not happy with the pay is to go somewhere else and stop whining. A school isn't for teachers to make money, it's to educate students and that should always be the priority. Many of the top schools function as charitable organizations so whatever profit they make ends up back into the school as it should be.

I don't think anyone clouds water with different perceptions because that's what they are... Every place is different seen through the eyes of a different person. That's why it's important that everyone is entitled to post what they think. If you disagree then you say so... I don't think it means that either person is necessarily wrong.

I personally try not to judge a place by standards that I may be used to and I certainly hate to use the word democracy since I don't believe it truly exists anywhere, just different shades of grey. Wherever it is, we are pawns in a big chess game. The biggest difference is that some of us have the luxury to decide where we want to play that game.