Effect of Brexit on WE teaching job market?

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ILMathTeachr
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:38 pm

Effect of Brexit on WE teaching job market?

Post by ILMathTeachr »

As an American nosing around and planning for the next phase of my life, hopefully in international teaching, it occurred to me today that with so many school that posting jobs with the warning, "**No VISA is provided for NON EU Passport holders ", is it possible the job market in western Europe opens up to more non-British applicants? That is, WILL schools need help getting English-speaking applicants, and start working with their government to issue work visas?

Interested in your thoughts!!

Ifyousayso
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:55 pm

Re: Effect of Brexit on WE teaching job market?

Post by Ifyousayso »

I think we are a long way away from the final deal that the UK will strike with the EU so its still all guess work at the moment. If the UK decides to commit suicide and go no deal then the teachers from the USA and other none British English speaking countries will at least be on a level playing field with the Brits, possibly in an even better position. If the current British government has a brain between the lot of them they will strike a deal that leaves the UK closely aligned with the EU but the existence of that brain is rather dubious.

Thames Pirate
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Re: Effect of Brexit on WE teaching job market?

Post by Thames Pirate »

Also, a lot of schools say they can't provide visas, but if you are from certain countries it's not an issue. For example, if you are from the US, NZ, Japan, etc. you can travel visa-free to the EU. In some countries, as long as your in a shortage field (which teaching often is) and you have the requisite degrees and a concrete offer, you are then eligible for a visa. So just because the school doesn't give visa assistance doesn't mean you can't get a visa. It really depends on the country, your qualifications, etc. But Brexit wouldn't be a factor.

Ifyousayso
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:55 pm

Re: Effect of Brexit on WE teaching job market?

Post by Ifyousayso »

Not sure why you don't think Brexit will not be a factor. In the EU a job can only be taken by a none EU citizen if no EU citizen can fill that role. Pre brexit this means that British teachers have the priority over all none EU citizens even if the school may prefer the American candidate. If the EU citizen is qualified for that job they have priority. If brexit changes this then it will level an unlevel playing field.

dockabros
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Re: Effect of Brexit on WE teaching job market?

Post by dockabros »

One factor which seems to be overlooked is that Brits are not the only EU citizens who are native English speakers and well qualified for international school jobs in Western Europe. Ireland has been overtraining teachers for years, many have years of experience working with the British curriculum in state schools in the UK and they will still have full EU citizenship after Brexit concludes, meaning zero visa issues. This would bump them up the queue ahead of many non-EU teachers if Brits lose their current access to these jobs. Another factor is that a lot of British people have been applying for Irish passports since the referendum result or are eligible for Irish citizenship through ancestry, which means many British teachers will also be able to avoid visa hurdles by simply using their Irish passport to work in Western Europe.

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate thinks because you can get a tourist visa all you need to do is gt a contract from an IS. Its part of the whole TPF fantasy that you just walk into an IS and with a hair flip and smile and Julia Roberts scripting you just get a contract.
Irish DTs arent going to fill the void left by English ITs, if that was the state of affairs there would be a lot more observable competition that isnt evident in IE. Its not like a slew of Irish DTs are just waiting for their chance.
Its not going to be a level playing field, even if the immigration logistics were identical, British ITs still have an advantage in relevant curriculum experience and travel costs and its not going to be an identical playing field anyway. As much as the EU would like to punish the UK they are still going to be a closer partner than the US/AUS/CAN is going to be and some form of easier immigration process between the UK and the EU is going to surface. The Dfe would love if that didnt happen (it as a hard exit) but even they realize they wont be getting that dream scenario.

dockabros
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Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:52 am

Re: Effect of Brexit on WE teaching job market?

Post by dockabros »

I think the OP was referring to the fact that Brexit may open up more opportunities for non-EU Anglophone teachers and I was pointing out the fact that the natural current recruitment pool for WE also includes Irish teachers as well as British (not just English) teachers due to the visa restrictions on non-EU teachers.
In addition, there are also quite a large number of Irish ITs on the circuit particularly in the ME (last year the in fact the Irish Minister for Education actually went to Dubai on a fact-finding/begging mission to try and get these teachers to return home due to the scale of Irish teachers choosing to work in international schools), who could now benefit from their visa status in the EU due to the likely downgrading of British teachers' access to this labour market post-Brexit. While you seem confident that British teachers will retain a preferential status, the Tories have been making noises about putting EU migrants on points-based visas like non-EU migrants as well as pushing for a more CETA-style arrangement, which does not bode well for British workers i.e. teachers having the same ease of access to WE jobs. As you are probably aware, "uncontrolled" EU-migration to the UK was the main reason many voted to leave in the first place.
Now you refer to no observable competition between Irish and British teachers on the international circuit but just because it is not observable to you, does not mean it does not exist. Both usually have similar curriculum background and experience such as the British state sector and/or IGCSE/A-Levels etc so they apply for similar types of international school jobs. In addition, it is sort of an unspoken thing that the British are preferred due to the accent, passport etc so this does directly the recruitment prospects of many Irish ITs, even if you are unaware of this as you have not experienced this yourself.
Lastly to return to the OPs original query - I think if the international school currently teaches the American curriculum or perhaps IB in WE, Brexit will have little impact on these schools as British teachers mostly lack the curriculum experience to teach in the former at least. However, if we are talking about international schools who follow the British curriculum (and maybe some IB schools) in Western Europe, Irish teachers will become a lot more attractive candidates due to their lack of visa problems than they currently are, as competition in their natural recruitment pool in Europe i.e. British teachers will most likely be lessened as British teachers will probably start to face new hurdles to working in Europe. And remember there are a lot of Irish ITs on the circuit, which means I think the main beneficiary of Brexit in these schools will actually be Irish teachers due to their EU citizenship rather than Americans etc.

PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@dockabros

None of those are facts if they may not happen.
Yes the IT pool includes Irish ITs, but the number of Irish ITs isnt going to sell, to fill the vacuum of British ITs, should that actually happen.

Absolutely uncontrolled immigration as a major factor in voting to leave the EU block. All the drama of point systems and the other issues are all firmly entrenched in the pool of unskilled workers, of which edus are not a part of. The EU and the UK dont have a disagreement on the mobility of skilled workers, both sides want them, they just need a system to differentiate the two (skilled and unskilled) which precludes a system of open mobility for all. Its not going to effect ITs int h long term, theyre going to implement some system that going to be advantageous compared to hiring US/CAN/AUS ITs.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Your claim that it exists doesnt mean it does.

All common IE curriculum are highly congruent at SLL.

Again, Irish ITs arent going to become more attractive, as UK ITs wont have the visa issues your claiming are going to unfold and there arent a lot of Irish ITs on the IE circuit.
We disagree, mainly because were both making very strong assumptions of highly variable future outcomes.
If events do unfold as you describe and visa immigration for UK ITs becomes just as difficult as it is for other non-EU citizens, and the preference factors for UK ITs compared to Irish ITs is mitigated or extenuated, the outcome isnt going to be increased utilization of Irish IT, its going to be increased hiring of regional and local EU ITs. Why pay premium coin for Irish ITs as OSH ITs when you can utilize LH ITs and accomplish the same objectives and goals and get the same look and feel in the classroom. As you state theres a preference for British ITs based on accent, passport, etc. take that away and Irish ITs are on the same level as LH EU ITs (assuming they are English fluent). ISs will ultimately (in the short term at least) lower their English language expectations.

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