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Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Reply

Postby PsyGuy » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:02 am

@Heliotrope

How are they similar? Robbery is a crime, a crime with a victim, your depriving a person of property your not entitled too, there are a mire of legal codes (laws) that prohibit this behavior and stipulate punishment for it. Deceiving an IS to gain a tour has no victim, and is not a crime.

Your claim that "its wrong" is nothing more than a claim, its your opinion, a preference. These two acts are not in any way similar. You seem to have a moral, ethical and legal misunderstanding of what is and is not "okay".
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Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Postby Thames Pirate » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:19 pm

Like I said, your responses speak to your character.
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Re: Reply

Postby Heliotrope » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:51 pm

My claim that lying is wrong is backed by philosophers such as Kant (and just about all others), who saw it as a threat to civil society. A society that tolerates lies – his argument goes – is a society in which trust is undermined and, with it, the sense of collectivity.

Your claim that lying is ok, is backed by the current U.S. president, Donald "grab 'em by the pussy" Trump.
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Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Postby secondplace » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:50 am

@psguy

You're an under the bridge dwelling provocateur with the same commitment to ethical living as you have to spelling and punctuation.

You are more than welcome to your cynical world view and may even feel it works for you. Others aspire to, and indeed travel on, more noble paths.

Choose whatever path you want, but perhaps refrain others from pointless duplicity.

Hugs. x.
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Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Postby secondplace » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:13 pm

meant to put:

Choose whatever path you want, but perhaps refrain from prompting others towards pointless duplicity.
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Reply

Postby PsyGuy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:48 pm

@Thames Pirate

I should hope so.

@Heliotrope

So the support for your opinion is the opinion of philosophers, who claim its wrong because they deem it so. What about Sun Tzu and Niccolo Machiavelli, theyre philosophers, oh wait of course they must be wrong because they disagree with your 'sources'.

@secondplace

::yawn::

Sticks and stones from the self proclaimed grammar police and morality gestapo. PT Barnum, a business philosopher, once said theres one of you born every minute.

There is always a point to duplicity, and is true in this case as well.
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Re: Reply

Postby Heliotrope » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:52 pm

@PsyGuy
Congrats, you've found two! One that wrote about military strategy, and another who's famous for writing a manual for tyrants to help them maintain their power, and who he sees the killing of innocents as a valid method of doing so.
So excellent choices!
There are a few more if you know a bit about philosophy actually, most of them better choices, but still part of a very small minority.
If this was about climate change, you'd probably mention some of the plusminus 3% of scientists that disagrees with the consensus.
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Reply

Postby PsyGuy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:58 pm

@Heliotrope

Oh I get it your philosophers support your position (again no data, but neither do mine) and thus their position is superior, because you say so. Mine most of course be wrong because they dont support your position.
No I would do no such thing, as science respects data where as philosophy is little more than the rambling opinions of drunkards.
Let us know when Diogenes gives you that honest person award and banquet.
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Re: Reply

Postby Heliotrope » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:59 pm

@PsyGuy

As we're talking about morality, philosophy isn't a bad place to find answers.
I'm not discounting philosophers that don't agree with me (I even said there are more and better ones than the two you mentioned), I'm pointing about the overwhelming majority of philosophers (and people in general) would consider lying in a situation like this immoral. You however are discounting philosophy because it overwhelmingly does not agree with you.
But of course you're entitles to your opinion.

And since when would an award and a banquet for being a decent human being be a bad thing?
Although I'm sure there are people more deserving of it than I am.
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Reply

Postby PsyGuy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:16 pm

@Heliotrope

Do you have any data to support this claim that an overwhelming majority of people would consider lying in this situation immoral?

I cited philosophers that support my position, is this a popularity contest of opinions? Your philosophers opinions dont agree with my philosophers opinions, but your philosophers opinions are right because they, what, voted on it?

Diogenes was looking for 10 honest men, surely youve NEVER lied thus would be eligible for such an honor?
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Re: Reply

Postby Heliotrope » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:21 pm

PsyGuy wrote:
> Do you have any data to support this claim that an overwhelming majority of
> people would consider lying in this situation immoral?

I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources. I have highly confident data to support my position.
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Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Postby expatscot » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:45 pm

*dusts popcorn crumbs off sofa*

So, to return to the original post......

I'm going to give psyguy a bit of a benefit of the doubt. If you were going to be in the area and fancied spending the afternoon noseying around a top tier school, then pretending to be a parent might well be an option. However, if you were seriously looking for a job at that school then going down that route could be awkward. You could, I suppose, get a non-teaching friend to make the appointment, then you go along as a friend who is a teacher - that way, nobody lies.

We did do this once - we were one year in to IT and wanted to see what a different school in a very different location looked like, and friends made the introduction between us and the HT who arranged it all. Nothing came of it jobwise, but it gave us a much better feel for what schools could be like and encouraged us to move to that part of the world. I would do it again, but only if I happened to be in the area and also only if there was a personal link to the school which would help me get my foot in the door, so to speak.
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Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Postby Heliotrope » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:50 am

expatscot wrote:
> However, if you were seriously looking for a job at that school then going
> down that route could be awkward.

It's definitely a school that I want to get a job at in about 3-4 years, depending on circumstances.
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Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Postby sid » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:25 am

"any attempt to appeal to the better side of a psychopath's better nature will be judged by these master manipulators as a sign of weakness, for conscience is something they do not possess, and one's efforts will fail"
- Talking with Psychopaths and Savages: A Journey into the Evil Mind; Christopher Berry-Dee
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Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Postby PsyGuy » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:37 am

@Heliotrope

In 3-4 years youre barely going to be remembered if at all, and no one ill care whether it was an admissions tour or hat the reason was.
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