emmjay wrote:
> Spain and/or Northern Ireland (probably a split between the two).
Northern Ireland is an unusual retirement destination for non-Brits, but I'm sure it has its appeals.
I still want to do an Ireland + Northern Ireland trip someday. Tbh, in Northern Ireland, the only sights I know I want to visit are the Giant's Causeway and Belfast, although likely there's much more to see and do.
If not in your home country, then where do you plan to retire?
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Reply
@Heliotrope
Its entirely qualification based its not competitive either.
No it was a technical deficiency in the application. TW doesnt offer an opportunity to cure, so the only option is a new application. The burden of collecting and authenticating all the supporting documents was too much of a burden, and they didnt reapply.
All of the comparable little tigers (TW, HK, JP, SG) have mostly pluses with few minuses, albeit different pluses and different minuses. Even outside that group (E.G. SK, etc.) there are more pluses than minuses. Its not until you start getting to TH, PH, etc. that you start see a shift in the pluses and minuses distribution. Even when you start getting to China and India where the minuses matter those countries still arent NK. I know more ITs that will retire in China than I do TW.
The salience of my position is that:
1) The disparity among factors between other similar regions in that particular part of the world are marginal if not trivial. Even if you accept that TW has the best health care in the region the other contenders (among the little tigers) have very high quality health care as well.
2) TW isnt the gold ring at everything, there are other countries that rank higher in certain categories. SG ranks higher in safety (crime) than TW.
3) The lack of an official and specific retirement (visa) scheme is a challenge but not an arduous one.
If language is a barrier for TW than its a barrier throughout the region, though TW has a lot of English fluency so does SG and HK.
High efficiency and organization, safety, ease of navigation, rule of law, friendliness are all common descriptors for the other little tigers as well. Ive never met a JP native who was rude, nor in HK or SG.
What TW has going for it, compared to the other little tigers is lower cost of living compared to the others.
Yes, I agree many countries have their appeal, TW just doesnt win the best place to retire for an IT Olympics.
NI is unusual among all ITs, and i know more non-Brits than Brits who want to retire in NI (the number of Brits being zero).
Its entirely qualification based its not competitive either.
No it was a technical deficiency in the application. TW doesnt offer an opportunity to cure, so the only option is a new application. The burden of collecting and authenticating all the supporting documents was too much of a burden, and they didnt reapply.
All of the comparable little tigers (TW, HK, JP, SG) have mostly pluses with few minuses, albeit different pluses and different minuses. Even outside that group (E.G. SK, etc.) there are more pluses than minuses. Its not until you start getting to TH, PH, etc. that you start see a shift in the pluses and minuses distribution. Even when you start getting to China and India where the minuses matter those countries still arent NK. I know more ITs that will retire in China than I do TW.
The salience of my position is that:
1) The disparity among factors between other similar regions in that particular part of the world are marginal if not trivial. Even if you accept that TW has the best health care in the region the other contenders (among the little tigers) have very high quality health care as well.
2) TW isnt the gold ring at everything, there are other countries that rank higher in certain categories. SG ranks higher in safety (crime) than TW.
3) The lack of an official and specific retirement (visa) scheme is a challenge but not an arduous one.
If language is a barrier for TW than its a barrier throughout the region, though TW has a lot of English fluency so does SG and HK.
High efficiency and organization, safety, ease of navigation, rule of law, friendliness are all common descriptors for the other little tigers as well. Ive never met a JP native who was rude, nor in HK or SG.
What TW has going for it, compared to the other little tigers is lower cost of living compared to the others.
Yes, I agree many countries have their appeal, TW just doesnt win the best place to retire for an IT Olympics.
NI is unusual among all ITs, and i know more non-Brits than Brits who want to retire in NI (the number of Brits being zero).
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> Its entirely qualification based its not competitive either.
>
> No it was a technical deficiency in the application. TW doesnt offer an
> opportunity to cure, so the only option is a new application. The burden of
> collecting and authenticating all the supporting documents was too much of
> a burden, and they didnt reapply.
>
> All of the comparable little tigers (TW, HK, JP, SG) have mostly pluses
> with few minuses, albeit different pluses and different minuses. Even
> outside that group (E.G. SK, etc.) there are more pluses than minuses. Its
> not until you start getting to TH, PH, etc. that you start see a shift in
> the pluses and minuses distribution. Even when you start getting to China
> and India where the minuses matter those countries still arent NK. I know
> more ITs that will retire in China than I do TW.
> The salience of my position is that:
> 1) The disparity among factors between other similar regions in that
> particular part of the world are marginal if not trivial. Even if you
> accept that TW has the best health care in the region the other contenders
> (among the little tigers) have very high quality health care as well.
> 2) TW isnt the gold ring at everything, there are other countries that rank
> higher in certain categories. SG ranks higher in safety (crime) than TW.
> 3) The lack of an official and specific retirement (visa) scheme is a
> challenge but not an arduous one.
>
> If language is a barrier for TW than its a barrier throughout the region,
> though TW has a lot of English fluency so does SG and HK.
> High efficiency and organization, safety, ease of navigation, rule of law,
> friendliness are all common descriptors for the other little tigers as
> well. Ive never met a JP native who was rude, nor in HK or SG.
> What TW has going for it, compared to the other little tigers is lower cost
> of living compared to the others.
>
> Yes, I agree many countries have their appeal, TW just doesnt win the best
> place to retire for an IT Olympics.
>
> NI is unusual among all ITs, and i know more non-Brits than Brits who want
> to retire in NI (the number of Brits being zero).
Yes, there are plenty of countries in East and Southeast Asia that I would consider, and as long as you have money then good healthcare is available almost everywhere (or a short flight away).
What I hear from people considering Taiwan is that they much prefer the Taiwanese people over the Chinese or Japanese. I've had good experiences in all three, although I did like the Japanese and Taiwanese better than the Chinese, but sample sizes were small. English proficiency of the locals was higher in Taiwan than in China and Japan though (with Japan being a distant third and China a close second), which can be a draw, but then Singapore, Philippines or Malaysia would easily beat Taiwan if that's a main concern.
In the latest ranking I read, Taiwan ranked as safer than Singapore, but I think it just depends on which ranking you happen to read, and what exactly they measure to come up with their ranking. Singapore, Taiwan and Japan all consistently rank very high, and are all so extremely safe that safety would not make me rank one of these three above the others when I decide where to live.
You're correct, Taiwan has relatively low COL, but since that can go up (or down) quickly (just like everywhere of course), I'll look at COL when I'm about to retire and then see what makes sense, even though my savings goal will let me largely disregard COL (although I'd be able to buy/rent a much nicer place in Malaysia than in Switzerland).
Although I can see Taiwan's appeal, no country is best for everyone - it all depends on budget and preferences.
I happen to know a couple of Brits who plan to retire in Northern Ireland, but they have family there, so they're not really choosing Northern Ireland, they are choosing family. I think I'd sooner opt for Ireland myself based on my limited knowledge about the two.
> @Heliotrope
>
> Its entirely qualification based its not competitive either.
>
> No it was a technical deficiency in the application. TW doesnt offer an
> opportunity to cure, so the only option is a new application. The burden of
> collecting and authenticating all the supporting documents was too much of
> a burden, and they didnt reapply.
>
> All of the comparable little tigers (TW, HK, JP, SG) have mostly pluses
> with few minuses, albeit different pluses and different minuses. Even
> outside that group (E.G. SK, etc.) there are more pluses than minuses. Its
> not until you start getting to TH, PH, etc. that you start see a shift in
> the pluses and minuses distribution. Even when you start getting to China
> and India where the minuses matter those countries still arent NK. I know
> more ITs that will retire in China than I do TW.
> The salience of my position is that:
> 1) The disparity among factors between other similar regions in that
> particular part of the world are marginal if not trivial. Even if you
> accept that TW has the best health care in the region the other contenders
> (among the little tigers) have very high quality health care as well.
> 2) TW isnt the gold ring at everything, there are other countries that rank
> higher in certain categories. SG ranks higher in safety (crime) than TW.
> 3) The lack of an official and specific retirement (visa) scheme is a
> challenge but not an arduous one.
>
> If language is a barrier for TW than its a barrier throughout the region,
> though TW has a lot of English fluency so does SG and HK.
> High efficiency and organization, safety, ease of navigation, rule of law,
> friendliness are all common descriptors for the other little tigers as
> well. Ive never met a JP native who was rude, nor in HK or SG.
> What TW has going for it, compared to the other little tigers is lower cost
> of living compared to the others.
>
> Yes, I agree many countries have their appeal, TW just doesnt win the best
> place to retire for an IT Olympics.
>
> NI is unusual among all ITs, and i know more non-Brits than Brits who want
> to retire in NI (the number of Brits being zero).
Yes, there are plenty of countries in East and Southeast Asia that I would consider, and as long as you have money then good healthcare is available almost everywhere (or a short flight away).
What I hear from people considering Taiwan is that they much prefer the Taiwanese people over the Chinese or Japanese. I've had good experiences in all three, although I did like the Japanese and Taiwanese better than the Chinese, but sample sizes were small. English proficiency of the locals was higher in Taiwan than in China and Japan though (with Japan being a distant third and China a close second), which can be a draw, but then Singapore, Philippines or Malaysia would easily beat Taiwan if that's a main concern.
In the latest ranking I read, Taiwan ranked as safer than Singapore, but I think it just depends on which ranking you happen to read, and what exactly they measure to come up with their ranking. Singapore, Taiwan and Japan all consistently rank very high, and are all so extremely safe that safety would not make me rank one of these three above the others when I decide where to live.
You're correct, Taiwan has relatively low COL, but since that can go up (or down) quickly (just like everywhere of course), I'll look at COL when I'm about to retire and then see what makes sense, even though my savings goal will let me largely disregard COL (although I'd be able to buy/rent a much nicer place in Malaysia than in Switzerland).
Although I can see Taiwan's appeal, no country is best for everyone - it all depends on budget and preferences.
I happen to know a couple of Brits who plan to retire in Northern Ireland, but they have family there, so they're not really choosing Northern Ireland, they are choosing family. I think I'd sooner opt for Ireland myself based on my limited knowledge about the two.
Reply
@Heliotrope
Its not even "money" though as if some outlandish amount of coin is needed to get good quality health care. All of the little tigers and others (SK, Malaysia, etc.) have good quality health care that doesnt require some level of wealthy to afford, nor does it require medical tourism to find.
HK isnt the same as mainland China. The level of English fluency in HK (English is one of the two official languages in HK) is much higher than on the mainland.
I find it depends how they define safety, with the main difference being between violent and petty crime, but it does depend which rankings you read and those operational definitions are as much part of how safety is measured as well as other factors.
Well short of an invasion of TW (but China most likely) the entire region is very dependent on one another economically. If TWs cost of living were to take a vertical climb, it would be seen in other locations in the region as well. So If TWs COL goes up one of the others (JP, SG, HK) is going to see a rise as well, otherwise small fluctuations in COL isnt going to be decision making or breaking factor.
That explains it, because I havent met a single Brit whose goal was to retire in NI.
Its not even "money" though as if some outlandish amount of coin is needed to get good quality health care. All of the little tigers and others (SK, Malaysia, etc.) have good quality health care that doesnt require some level of wealthy to afford, nor does it require medical tourism to find.
HK isnt the same as mainland China. The level of English fluency in HK (English is one of the two official languages in HK) is much higher than on the mainland.
I find it depends how they define safety, with the main difference being between violent and petty crime, but it does depend which rankings you read and those operational definitions are as much part of how safety is measured as well as other factors.
Well short of an invasion of TW (but China most likely) the entire region is very dependent on one another economically. If TWs cost of living were to take a vertical climb, it would be seen in other locations in the region as well. So If TWs COL goes up one of the others (JP, SG, HK) is going to see a rise as well, otherwise small fluctuations in COL isnt going to be decision making or breaking factor.
That explains it, because I havent met a single Brit whose goal was to retire in NI.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> Its not even "money" though as if some outlandish amount of coin
> is needed to get good quality health care. All of the little tigers and
> others (SK, Malaysia, etc.) have good quality health care that doesnt
> require some level of wealthy to afford, nor does it require medical
> tourism to find.
I meant with regards to the countries where good quality public healthcare is not available or easily accessible.
If you're living in Myanmar or Laos, you will not want to use the public healthcare system for anything serious, so as a relatively wealthy expat you'll then travel to Bangkok (for example) to take care of it instead. Although I wouldn't want to live in a country where emergency care is not up to a certain standard, since for some things you won't have the time to travel to Bangkok.
> HK isnt the same as mainland China. The level of English fluency in HK
> (English is one of the two official languages in HK) is much higher than on
> the mainland.
Obviously. I love Hong Kong - the MRT system is a dream, and the food is great.
> I find it depends how they define safety, with the main difference being
> between violent and petty crime, but it does depend which rankings you read
> and those operational definitions are as much part of how safety is
> measured as well as other factors.
Indeed. But regardless of how it's measured, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan all rank very high. It's small differents that affect which ranks slightly higher in the various rankings.
> Well short of an invasion of TW (but China most likely) the entire region
> is very dependent on one another economically. If TWs cost of living were
> to take a vertical climb, it would be seen in other locations in the region
> as well. So If TWs COL goes up one of the others (JP, SG, HK) is going to
> see a rise as well, otherwise small fluctuations in COL isnt going to be
> decision making or breaking factor.
COL in the region is only interconnected for certain components. There are lots of scenarios where Taiwan’s COL rises sharply while the cost of living in nearby countries remains largely unchanged.
> That explains it, because I havent met a single Brit whose goal was to
> retire in NI.
I'm sure there are some, but then again I've seen videos of people who during a flood scooped water out of their front yard onto deposit it on the other side of the very, very permeable fence. And who knows, maybe Northern Ireland has some draws we don't know about.
> @Heliotrope
>
> Its not even "money" though as if some outlandish amount of coin
> is needed to get good quality health care. All of the little tigers and
> others (SK, Malaysia, etc.) have good quality health care that doesnt
> require some level of wealthy to afford, nor does it require medical
> tourism to find.
I meant with regards to the countries where good quality public healthcare is not available or easily accessible.
If you're living in Myanmar or Laos, you will not want to use the public healthcare system for anything serious, so as a relatively wealthy expat you'll then travel to Bangkok (for example) to take care of it instead. Although I wouldn't want to live in a country where emergency care is not up to a certain standard, since for some things you won't have the time to travel to Bangkok.
> HK isnt the same as mainland China. The level of English fluency in HK
> (English is one of the two official languages in HK) is much higher than on
> the mainland.
Obviously. I love Hong Kong - the MRT system is a dream, and the food is great.
> I find it depends how they define safety, with the main difference being
> between violent and petty crime, but it does depend which rankings you read
> and those operational definitions are as much part of how safety is
> measured as well as other factors.
Indeed. But regardless of how it's measured, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan all rank very high. It's small differents that affect which ranks slightly higher in the various rankings.
> Well short of an invasion of TW (but China most likely) the entire region
> is very dependent on one another economically. If TWs cost of living were
> to take a vertical climb, it would be seen in other locations in the region
> as well. So If TWs COL goes up one of the others (JP, SG, HK) is going to
> see a rise as well, otherwise small fluctuations in COL isnt going to be
> decision making or breaking factor.
COL in the region is only interconnected for certain components. There are lots of scenarios where Taiwan’s COL rises sharply while the cost of living in nearby countries remains largely unchanged.
> That explains it, because I havent met a single Brit whose goal was to
> retire in NI.
I'm sure there are some, but then again I've seen videos of people who during a flood scooped water out of their front yard onto deposit it on the other side of the very, very permeable fence. And who knows, maybe Northern Ireland has some draws we don't know about.
-
Heliotrope
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: If not in your home country, then where do you plan to retire?
Just had a chat with a fellow expat about retirement, and he sort of sold me on retiring in the Baltics.
Not so much the weather (which isn't great outside of Summer) or COL (which isn't good either, but within my means), but all other things sound pretty nice. I think I'll do a three country trip through the Baltics next Summer - sounds like a very interesting region.
Pretty sure if I do a Winter trip to the Baltics I'll reconsider about about retiring there though.
Not so much the weather (which isn't great outside of Summer) or COL (which isn't good either, but within my means), but all other things sound pretty nice. I think I'll do a three country trip through the Baltics next Summer - sounds like a very interesting region.
Pretty sure if I do a Winter trip to the Baltics I'll reconsider about about retiring there though.
Reply
@Heliotrope
You may have meant that but you didnt write that.
It wasnt obvious, throughout that entire paragraph you made reference to "China" and not specifically HK.
Agreed, very minor differences.
COL is interconnected in almost all the categories (energy, food, etc.) that would matter to an expat. The only category where it may be significant is in housing and specifically in terms of construction materials and equipment. Land differs but that tends to be a local issue rather than an intra-regional issue.
That might be. NI may be a hidden gem, but I still havent heard a single Brit that wants to retire there, but maybe they are keeping it a secret to themselves.
Its interesting... in much the same way the quote "may you live in interesting times" is interesting.
You may have meant that but you didnt write that.
It wasnt obvious, throughout that entire paragraph you made reference to "China" and not specifically HK.
Agreed, very minor differences.
COL is interconnected in almost all the categories (energy, food, etc.) that would matter to an expat. The only category where it may be significant is in housing and specifically in terms of construction materials and equipment. Land differs but that tends to be a local issue rather than an intra-regional issue.
That might be. NI may be a hidden gem, but I still havent heard a single Brit that wants to retire there, but maybe they are keeping it a secret to themselves.
Its interesting... in much the same way the quote "may you live in interesting times" is interesting.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> You may have meant that but you didnt write that.
I'd argue that I did write that. I wrote "Yes, there are plenty of countries in East and Southeast Asia that I would consider, and as long as you have money then good healthcare is available almost everywhere (or a short flight away)."
Of those plenty of countries that I would consider, some have bad public healthcare. if I were to consider one of these countries, then good healthcare is indeed available if you have money, either through a private clinic or through medical tourism. But you're welcome to interpret my words differently, in which case we'll disagree.
> It wasnt obvious, throughout that entire paragraph you made reference to
> "China" and not specifically HK.
Well, when I reference China I mean the whole country, and if you want to argue that the average Chinese citizen speaks better English than the average Taiwanese then be my guest. My 'Obviously' was in regards to that everyone knows that English proficiency is great in Hong Kong, but China is bigger than just HK.
> COL is interconnected in almost all the categories (energy, food, etc.)
> that would matter to an expat.
Your earlier statement, that "If TWs cost of living were to take a vertical climb, it would be seen in other locations in the region as well. So If TWs COL goes up one of the others (JP, SG, HK) is going to see a rise as well" is not true. Sure, it can happen, but there are lots of scenarios where Taiwan’s COL rises sharply while the cost of living in nearby countries remains largely unchanged. And I'd say rent matters a lot to an expat.
But I suspect we will likely just end up disagreeing on this.
> @Heliotrope
>
> You may have meant that but you didnt write that.
I'd argue that I did write that. I wrote "Yes, there are plenty of countries in East and Southeast Asia that I would consider, and as long as you have money then good healthcare is available almost everywhere (or a short flight away)."
Of those plenty of countries that I would consider, some have bad public healthcare. if I were to consider one of these countries, then good healthcare is indeed available if you have money, either through a private clinic or through medical tourism. But you're welcome to interpret my words differently, in which case we'll disagree.
> It wasnt obvious, throughout that entire paragraph you made reference to
> "China" and not specifically HK.
Well, when I reference China I mean the whole country, and if you want to argue that the average Chinese citizen speaks better English than the average Taiwanese then be my guest. My 'Obviously' was in regards to that everyone knows that English proficiency is great in Hong Kong, but China is bigger than just HK.
> COL is interconnected in almost all the categories (energy, food, etc.)
> that would matter to an expat.
Your earlier statement, that "If TWs cost of living were to take a vertical climb, it would be seen in other locations in the region as well. So If TWs COL goes up one of the others (JP, SG, HK) is going to see a rise as well" is not true. Sure, it can happen, but there are lots of scenarios where Taiwan’s COL rises sharply while the cost of living in nearby countries remains largely unchanged. And I'd say rent matters a lot to an expat.
But I suspect we will likely just end up disagreeing on this.