Covid and Breaking New Contract
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Spawnboy99
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 pm
Covid and Breaking New Contract
Just putting it out there, a potential location I have had a job offer at, Covid situation is getting worse, the company has just informed that all paperwork is now approved and expecting to be there in 90days. My question and be honest please but breaking this contract due to the Covid situation, how will this affect my chances for applying for jobs next year ie 2022 in the same country or even another country, of course, would be at a different school. My better half is extremely hesitant in going and I too.
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
If you got hired through an agency, they will probably make you pay the hiring fee to the school, and ban you permanently from their service. This happened to a friend recently. The agency’s view was that we all know we’re in a pandemic, and that by signing a contract we are rolling the dice, so Covid is not an excuse at this point. Maybe it was a year ago, but not now.
As for what that does to your future chances, it’s hard to say. How hard will it be for you to get new letters of recommendation and start over with a new agency? Will your school be upset enough to spread your name around? Does the country have a mechanism where the school can ban you from getting a new visa after you broke contract? Worst case scenario is pretty bad, and the best case is pretty mild.
As for what that does to your future chances, it’s hard to say. How hard will it be for you to get new letters of recommendation and start over with a new agency? Will your school be upset enough to spread your name around? Does the country have a mechanism where the school can ban you from getting a new visa after you broke contract? Worst case scenario is pretty bad, and the best case is pretty mild.
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
You might also consider that a rise in cases now could well mean a reduction by the time you travel. Can you get a vaccine so your risk is low?
Response
That is utter bunk. If the COVID excuse is still valid for ISs to rescind their offers and contracts then its still valid for ITs to use in withdrawing acceptance of their contracts. The agencies feelings or rational, isnt really at issue. If COVID is an excuse for an IS its a valid excuse for an IT. Its nothing more than a leader fearmongering doom and gloom.
That said premium agencies such as SA can pretty much do what they want in terms of their agency. They could demand you pay the placement fee, but you dont actually have to and if they are going to drop repping you there isnt much of an incentive to do so.
It really depends how you spin it and what you do prior to withdrawing your contract acceptance. What are your options? Its in your best interests to pursue a new IS prior to withdrawing from the current IS. Its also in your interest to spin the withdrawal as something more substantial than fears of COVID. Your partner contracted COVID and has respiratory complications requiring prolonged and extended care or your goldfish died from COVID. Something more that actually happened rather than a fear of something that might happen spins better.
You should have references in hand already and if SA drops you that leaves you ISS, Schrole, and TIE. Schrole and TIE wont care about SA, and ISS isnt likely too assuming you have access to their consultancy.
There is no black list to spread your name around, the most an IS could do is maybe post a message on AISH that anyone hiring X IT should contact them first, and this is where the spin comes in.
ISs dont make visa decisions. There are some counties with various reporting mechanisms, but immigration authorities make visa decisions not the report of an IS. If a new IS wants you they have their own people and relationships to make a visa happen even if some other IS files a report. Even so its just one country, which matters more for somewhere like China, but its still one country.
The biggest problem and issue is that this is June, theres more availability this time of year than usual because of COVID, but this isnt the best time to be looking for an IE appointment.
Both the worst case and the best case are pretty mild, unless you place considerable value in your relationship with a premium agency like SA. Obtain a new job in a region your comfortable in, spin the withdrawal right and theres very little if any ramifications. the only real challenge is finding a replacement position.
That said premium agencies such as SA can pretty much do what they want in terms of their agency. They could demand you pay the placement fee, but you dont actually have to and if they are going to drop repping you there isnt much of an incentive to do so.
It really depends how you spin it and what you do prior to withdrawing your contract acceptance. What are your options? Its in your best interests to pursue a new IS prior to withdrawing from the current IS. Its also in your interest to spin the withdrawal as something more substantial than fears of COVID. Your partner contracted COVID and has respiratory complications requiring prolonged and extended care or your goldfish died from COVID. Something more that actually happened rather than a fear of something that might happen spins better.
You should have references in hand already and if SA drops you that leaves you ISS, Schrole, and TIE. Schrole and TIE wont care about SA, and ISS isnt likely too assuming you have access to their consultancy.
There is no black list to spread your name around, the most an IS could do is maybe post a message on AISH that anyone hiring X IT should contact them first, and this is where the spin comes in.
ISs dont make visa decisions. There are some counties with various reporting mechanisms, but immigration authorities make visa decisions not the report of an IS. If a new IS wants you they have their own people and relationships to make a visa happen even if some other IS files a report. Even so its just one country, which matters more for somewhere like China, but its still one country.
The biggest problem and issue is that this is June, theres more availability this time of year than usual because of COVID, but this isnt the best time to be looking for an IE appointment.
Both the worst case and the best case are pretty mild, unless you place considerable value in your relationship with a premium agency like SA. Obtain a new job in a region your comfortable in, spin the withdrawal right and theres very little if any ramifications. the only real challenge is finding a replacement position.
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
Nobody said it was ok for schools to break contracts using the Covid excuse.
Not ok for schools, not ok for teachers.
Not ok for schools, not ok for teachers.
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Spawnboy99
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 pm
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
Not through an agent and done privately, also we have been vaccinated. Without giving too much away we are in a pretty safe country that has dealt with Covid in a positive manner.
Reply
@Sid
Yes it is okay, COVID is still a very real pandemic, and real infection rates increased in the destination. These are real lives that you seem cavalier about putting in harms way because of a piece of paper. Contracts arent suicide pacts.
@Spawnboy99
So theres no agency for an IS to complain to, and no agency to retaliate against you. This is easy, first secure what ever option your going to pursue, new IE appointments in a different region (negating the ISs ability, whatever may exist to effect immigration, since youre not interested in going there, because you know COVID). Then inform the IS your withdrawing your acceptance of their contract but spin it into something real, not you have a fear of contracting COVID, but something real, your partner or a family member got COVID, someone got sick, your goldfish died, just something actual (not potential) and tragic (tragedy elicits sympathy). Say your really sorry, you hope they find someone to replace you soon, and wish them a good year. Dont agree to compensate them in any financial way (it wont be buying you anything). Then stop talking to them and move on.
Yes it is okay, COVID is still a very real pandemic, and real infection rates increased in the destination. These are real lives that you seem cavalier about putting in harms way because of a piece of paper. Contracts arent suicide pacts.
@Spawnboy99
So theres no agency for an IS to complain to, and no agency to retaliate against you. This is easy, first secure what ever option your going to pursue, new IE appointments in a different region (negating the ISs ability, whatever may exist to effect immigration, since youre not interested in going there, because you know COVID). Then inform the IS your withdrawing your acceptance of their contract but spin it into something real, not you have a fear of contracting COVID, but something real, your partner or a family member got COVID, someone got sick, your goldfish died, just something actual (not potential) and tragic (tragedy elicits sympathy). Say your really sorry, you hope they find someone to replace you soon, and wish them a good year. Dont agree to compensate them in any financial way (it wont be buying you anything). Then stop talking to them and move on.
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secondplace
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
@psyguy
Contracts aren't a suicide pact, agreed. They are however an agreement that both sides are obliged to honour.
And if one side, whichever that is, doesn't do that then are acting illegal and immorally.
The pandemic complicates things and individuals do need to choose and act carefully, and I would suggest that good schools are sensitive to this.
xx
Contracts aren't a suicide pact, agreed. They are however an agreement that both sides are obliged to honour.
And if one side, whichever that is, doesn't do that then are acting illegal and immorally.
The pandemic complicates things and individuals do need to choose and act carefully, and I would suggest that good schools are sensitive to this.
xx
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
@sid
They're not using Covid as an excuse, they're using it as a reason.
@secondplace
A contract supersedes safety? It's better to be moral and legal than safe?
Really disappointing to hear these viewpoints. In a pandemic, safety comes first. Period.
They're not using Covid as an excuse, they're using it as a reason.
@secondplace
A contract supersedes safety? It's better to be moral and legal than safe?
Really disappointing to hear these viewpoints. In a pandemic, safety comes first. Period.
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secondplace
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
@whynot
I've re-read your initial post, and then re-read what I wrote, and I agree it comes across wrong.
My reply was aimed at this, from @psyguy:
That is utter bunk. If the COVID excuse is still valid for ISs to rescind their offers and contracts then its still valid for ITs to use in withdrawing acceptance of their contracts. The agencies feelings or rational, isnt really at issue. If COVID is an excuse for an IS its a valid excuse for an IT. Its nothing more than a leader fearmongering doom and gloom.
rather than addressing your actual post.
With that in mind can I say that you have a very difficult decision to make, but that clearly you need to keep yourself and your family safe. Be honest with the school and handle the situation openly and professionally.
Might it hurt you in the future? Maybe. But I suspect that late withdrawals and non-completion of contracts will be more widespread than normal and most of these blips will be put down to COVID.
Good luck making a decision you're happy with and that keeps you safe.
I've re-read your initial post, and then re-read what I wrote, and I agree it comes across wrong.
My reply was aimed at this, from @psyguy:
That is utter bunk. If the COVID excuse is still valid for ISs to rescind their offers and contracts then its still valid for ITs to use in withdrawing acceptance of their contracts. The agencies feelings or rational, isnt really at issue. If COVID is an excuse for an IS its a valid excuse for an IT. Its nothing more than a leader fearmongering doom and gloom.
rather than addressing your actual post.
With that in mind can I say that you have a very difficult decision to make, but that clearly you need to keep yourself and your family safe. Be honest with the school and handle the situation openly and professionally.
Might it hurt you in the future? Maybe. But I suspect that late withdrawals and non-completion of contracts will be more widespread than normal and most of these blips will be put down to COVID.
Good luck making a decision you're happy with and that keeps you safe.
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Spawnboy99
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 pm
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
Dear All,
Thanks for your honesty here, the country in reference has experienced a huge increase to around 6000-8000 case numbers per day. The country itself has had close to a year of closures with schools and malls, gyms, restaurants, etc, the concern and I understood this from the start was the medical cover, etc wasn't the greatest only cover hospitalization, I was happy to get extra insurance for my family, but now with the huge increase in case numbers, ICU wards at 100% the benefits (package) vs the safety isn't worth the risk. It's not about the money, but a school under these times should be providing standard health insurance that is of peace of mind. I did ask in the interview stages and the response was a clear no, so hence I started looking for other insurance providers. Now some arent even covering Expats for Covid and some you need to take out an extra policy, which I think the school should be doing as the numbers have increased to an alarming rate, that potential could have huge financial and health issues for me or my family if we become sick due to this ..
Thanks for your honesty here, the country in reference has experienced a huge increase to around 6000-8000 case numbers per day. The country itself has had close to a year of closures with schools and malls, gyms, restaurants, etc, the concern and I understood this from the start was the medical cover, etc wasn't the greatest only cover hospitalization, I was happy to get extra insurance for my family, but now with the huge increase in case numbers, ICU wards at 100% the benefits (package) vs the safety isn't worth the risk. It's not about the money, but a school under these times should be providing standard health insurance that is of peace of mind. I did ask in the interview stages and the response was a clear no, so hence I started looking for other insurance providers. Now some arent even covering Expats for Covid and some you need to take out an extra policy, which I think the school should be doing as the numbers have increased to an alarming rate, that potential could have huge financial and health issues for me or my family if we become sick due to this ..
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
Luckily you’re vaccinated, so protected from serious versions of the disease. Are your children vaccinated as well?
You could raise this again with the school in light of recent events, and ask for Covid-specific insurance cover. Give them a chance to step forward.
You could raise this again with the school in light of recent events, and ask for Covid-specific insurance cover. Give them a chance to step forward.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Covid and Breaking New Contract
Our carrier provided COVID cover and we received very specific details about when it would and when it would not apply. It was done and handled very well and everybody was relatively happy and understood. The school's proactivity in this was well-received.
Reply
@Spawnboy99
Neither of the prior contributors advice is likely to be anything but to your detriment. The IS has already told you they dont provide COVID benefits and pestering them about it is not likely to change anything. All its going to do is signal to them is that theres potentially an unresolved issue that could turn bad for them. They may very well think, this person keeps pestering about the COVID issue, maybe they wont get on the plane, maybe I should look for someone who has no COVID related indications about getting on the plane.
Likewise being open and honest with them is only to your detriment. You lose all control over the situation once you hand the power to them. Make no mistake the consequences to you of having your contract rescinded are far more damaging to you then they are to the IS. They will just find someone else, you could be without a job at the last moment having to live off savings for a year. They could do a lot of things to hurt you. You are in a far better position if things go bad for you if you have secured options for yourself.
Neither of the prior contributors advice is likely to be anything but to your detriment. The IS has already told you they dont provide COVID benefits and pestering them about it is not likely to change anything. All its going to do is signal to them is that theres potentially an unresolved issue that could turn bad for them. They may very well think, this person keeps pestering about the COVID issue, maybe they wont get on the plane, maybe I should look for someone who has no COVID related indications about getting on the plane.
Likewise being open and honest with them is only to your detriment. You lose all control over the situation once you hand the power to them. Make no mistake the consequences to you of having your contract rescinded are far more damaging to you then they are to the IS. They will just find someone else, you could be without a job at the last moment having to live off savings for a year. They could do a lot of things to hurt you. You are in a far better position if things go bad for you if you have secured options for yourself.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> Likewise being open and honest with them is only to your detriment. You
> lose all control over the situation once you hand the power to them. Make
> no mistake the consequences to you of having your contract rescinded are
> far more damaging to you then they are to the IS. They will just find
> someone else, you could be without a job at the last moment having to live
> off savings for a year. They could do a lot of things to hurt you. You are
> in a far better position if things go bad for you if you have secured
> options for yourself.
This advice also applies to your marriage.
> Likewise being open and honest with them is only to your detriment. You
> lose all control over the situation once you hand the power to them. Make
> no mistake the consequences to you of having your contract rescinded are
> far more damaging to you then they are to the IS. They will just find
> someone else, you could be without a job at the last moment having to live
> off savings for a year. They could do a lot of things to hurt you. You are
> in a far better position if things go bad for you if you have secured
> options for yourself.
This advice also applies to your marriage.