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American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citizens.

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Postby PsyGuy » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:43 pm

@jots

1) The CT route isnt going to be less complicated or risky. CT doesnt have a greater depth of experience or issues as HI does, you are still going to have to put something for an SSN on the CT application, which has the same challenges and general process as HI has. There is a higher probability of CT being unsure of what to do and rejecting the application without an appropriate number. HI has a better probability of assigning you a tracking number and avoiding the SSN issue with other agencies.

2) The CT route will require exam testing before you can apply for the initial license. CT wont accept your Masters in PHE as a substitute of the testing requirement.

3) With all the issues you may have with the CT route you have to pay before you get any type of response. With HI you pay after the HTSB has assessed your application and informed you of the outcome.

4) You could do the CT route, there just isnt any need too. CT has a convoluted process and there is a "time clock" scenario much like the CA Preliminary credential. The CT initial credential is a 3 year credential that is renewable to a total time of 18 years. However, there is a possibility that CT could with your qualifications and experience issue you a provisional credential. This is an 8 year certificate but you cant renew it, you must transition it to the professional certificate, and you cant do that without working in the state of CT for 3 years.

5) The HI process is much cleaner, and based on your qualifications and experience it is HIGHLY likely that HI will issue you an Advance credential instead of the Standard credential.

6) The Advance license has a 10 year validity period as opposed to 5 years for the standard license and 3 years for the Initial CT license. Both HI licenses are renewable indefinitely with PD.

7) The HI Advance credential is a stage 4 license and the CT Initial credential is a stage 2 license. It wouldnt be unreasonable during contract negotiations to request a step credit of increase by arguing an advance license has additional value. No ones going to think anything special about an initial license.

8) CA recognizes the CT initial credential as equivalent to the CA Preliminary credential, which you dont want. CA will recognize the HI standard or advance credential as eligible for the CA CLEAR credential.

9) With the issue of QTS, an initial CT credential might be rejected by the TCL, where a HI standard or advance certificate will not.

The final outcome is to obtain a license that is either a lifetime license or has no PD requirements to renew, and has international recognition.The CA CLEAR credential is the gold standard, NJ is behind it as they have the only lifetime credential in the States anymore (in all fairness Missouri offers a credential that is 99 years, but if you qualify for the Missouri credential you qualify for the NJ standard certificate). NJ isnt an option for you because you are not a US citizen (you would end up with a 5 year non-citizen NJ credential, that you would only be able to renew if you were making significant progress to become a US citizen, which is difficult to prove and meet the standard if your not living and working in the US).
To begin with the CT initial credential means having to turn that credential into one that CA will accept as eligible for the CLEAR credential, and that process is going to involve either D.C. or HI. This makes the CT step superfluous.
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Re: American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citize

Postby nids » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:30 am

#PsyGuy
i have been going through the previous threads.and cant thank you enough for all the life changing advice you are sharing on this platform.sorry for my late response.as i hav been travelling.
i hav a few addl questions after reading your other replies:
1. my bachelors degree (bachelor in business studies) is also a 3 year program from india.followed by PG(2 year full time) also from india.do you think my degrees would be recognised in US.also
in the same breath,which evaluation agency is the most suitable in my circumstances(good service.good results.good price;)if possible!
2.hows a QTS as suggested to me(after a CT initial credential) rated worldwide.u said CA is the gold std. what stage/ranking is a QTS considered for job negotiations?
3.U mentioned SSN for CT credential also,how will I (an indian citizen) get it? whats
TCL?
thanks &regards.


THA
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Postby PsyGuy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:31 am

@nids

1) I believe your academic background would be recognized as something. The issue is going to be if your 3 year UG degree is accepted as a 4 year bachelors degree or some portion of your Masters is used toward a 4th year, leaving you with less than a Masters. In the worst case scenario your 3 year bachelors degree isnt accepted and regardless of your Masters prevents you from meeting the minimum requirements for a credential.

2) You will want to use either: A) Educational Records Evaluation Service, or B) World Education Services
They are both accepted by HI and CA, they have a long reputation and have similar cost structures and benefits.

3) Full QTS is equivalent to a stage 3 license, an NQT would have the equivalent to a stage 2 license. There is currently no stage 4 credential in the UK, and it is unlikely that the discussions of a "master teacher" recognition in the UK would require an advance degree.
The NASDTEC credentialing levels/stages are intended for comparisons between US states, there is considerable discourse and disagreement when those definitions are extrapolated and applied to regulatory authorities outside the US.
There are some BS ISs that have separate salary scales/bands depending on whether an IT is an NQT or has full QTS or was at one time on the UK upper pay scale (crossing the threshold). An IT who is hired from a TLR post without a similar post in the new appointment would likely be placed on the upper scale.

4) To apply for a SSN you would first need to apply with the regulatory state authority for a teaching credential and then have your application denied. You can then use that denial to apply for a SSN. The regulatory authority may as an alternative assign you a tracking number of their own or instruct you to request a TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number). If you are issued an SSN for purposes of your teaching credential, it will not provide you any eligibility to reside or work in the states.

5) TCL means Teachers College of Leadership, its not an official term. Currently, the National College for Teaching and Leadership (NCTL) is the regulatory authority in England for professional educators and is responsible for issuance and recognition of QTS. It went through a number of name and responsibility changes over a short period of time and was just refereed to as the TCL.
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Re: American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citize

Postby nids » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:14 am

ok.so the best route for me remains CT.followed by QTS,which will put me at par (in terms of payscale/credibility) with sb like jots,for eg, with CA clear in her field?
To sum up my understanding,though both me and jots seem to have many common traits(3 yr bachelor,2 yr masters,4yrs exp.as IT), we should pursue diff. routes due to our intended specialisation(wherein mine relates to my degree)?
gratitude as always..
pls correct me if i got it wrong..and apologise for askin so many ( perhaps stupid) queries,but i want to get it right before i take a step further in my career.
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Postby PsyGuy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:43 am

@nids

@jots has 20+ years of experience and CT will not recognize a PHE masters. There is little one can do with a PHE teaching qualification aside from teaching PHE. I have much less doubt that regardless of the NACES evaluation @jots will meet the experiential requirement for at least a standard credential if not a high probability of an advance credential in HI. In addition @jots has a potential risk of being awarded a CT provisional credential, which is ill advised, and potentially troublesome. Lastly, @jots will require multiple certifications to fulfill their current career status and aspirations, at the very least K-12 physical education, health, and likely primary and/or EC certification and there is only space for two fields in QTS (At some point @jots may want to pursue an athletic director credential).

Your scenario is closer to the margins, 4 years and business is vague. Its really going to depend what the NACES evaluation concludes, the CT route for you has a higher probability of success. Your 4 years is more likely to meet CTs 2 year teaching requirement than it will HI 3 year requirement, and your masters degree in business will be accepted as a substitute for the content exam requirements in CT. Your credentialing needs are met with a single certification category (business) and after obtaining the CT credential, applying for QTS and allowing the CT license to expire is a reasonable pathway.
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Re: American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citize

Postby embelabe » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:58 am

Hi,

I am a US citizen but living abroad. I recently made the switch from academia to teaching high school. I am looking to do a teaching credential online - mostly so that I can continue to apply to international schools and continue living abroad. This thread has been quite helpful. Thank you for sharing your perspectives.

I am wondering if you may be able to recommend other online teaching credential programs aside from Teach-Now. With respect to that program I am worried that my current position will not satisfy the teaching/internship requirement (I am an Israeli institution that runs study abroad programs for American High Schools students) so I am teaching about the same number of hours each month as a traditional 80% position but the schedule is not regular and I am not sure the school is accredited. I am also wondering if there is a program that may be less collaborative (time zones can make coordinating meetings tough). Also, the less hoop jumping and the more relevant coursework/learning is always a plus.

I also looked at Montana State Univesity's NTPP program but they are extremely expensive now and actually may have closed their program.

Thanks so much.
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Postby PsyGuy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:25 am

@embelabe

Yes, Teach Ready, which is based on FL certification. The advantages are that 1) They do not use a cohort model, it is more individualized and self paced. 2) The field work experience is only 5 days.
The disadvantages are that 1) You would have to return to the US (and likely FL) to take your licensing exams and 2) The field experience is only 5 days.

There are other online certification programs TCNJ (Teachers College New Jersey) but you would need to relocate to a region that has a cohort, which doesnt make it very convenient.
Drexel has an online program, that only offers primary, and secondary English, maths and science. Its unlikely however that your IS would be approved, and Drexel is pricey ($900/credit).

If your IS wouldnt be accepted by Teach Now, its unlikely to be accepted anywhere else.

The final option if you dont have an acceptable field placement is to do a PGCEi, though this doesnt award QTS its a working qualification for many lower tier ISs. In addition there is the potential to obtain a D.C. professional educator credential through transcript ana1ysis, which you could then use to obtain QTS.
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Re: American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citize

Postby embelabe » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:12 am

Thank you so much for the response. Apparently Teach-Now is in its 5th year. They cannot seem to give me any firm response regarding how top employers value their program. They also require working 18 -20 hours a week for 12 weeks on top of doing 15-20 hours of work for their program. I suppose if one is already a pro teacher this is manageable but for me, only having one year of high school teaching behind me, it seems a bit crazy (and does not fit with my current position). The School I am working for satisfies their requirement for a k-12 school but I won't have enough working hours (and they are rigid about doing 20 hours in their set 12 week; cannot start clocking hours earlier or continue doing hours after th initial 12 weeks).
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Postby PsyGuy » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:33 am

@embelabe

They cant give you data of what top employers think, because they really cant define what top employers are. This is an ACP program its intended to get candidates into classrooms, its not a teacher of the year coaching program. Most program completers go on to teaching in regulated DSs, not ISs and 5 years is a little less than the track for an IT to make it to tier 1. Its like asking Top Gear to compare how a Toyota Corolla compares to a Bogati in so far as how automobile enthusiasts feel about it. They dont compare because they arent meant to.

20 hours is pretty typical, the expectation of most field work experiences is that its a full time commitment. 20 hours of practice and 20 hours of academics is 40 hours a week or 8 hours a day. If you are working than 4 of those hours are what youd do anyway and another 15-20 hours is 2-3 hours a day if you count weekends, which is typical. You arent going to find those expectations to differ much between EPP/ITT programs, Teach Ready is a 5 day field experience but your going to be busy those 5 days. Candidates with less experience than you (meaning zero) do just as much work during field experience whether its student teaching, clinical teaching, internship, or practicum.

The problem appears to be your level of employment, its not Teach Nows fault your not employed full time. I understand your frustration but from their POV they need to make sure your teaching as TOR and not as a substitute or relief IT because these are the requirements for the regulatory authority that approves their program. The issue might be how you presented the problem, 20 contact hours in class is half a day, but its typical for many ITs who have X hours of instruction and then Y hours for prep periods and Z hours for conference/meetings/etc. that together make a full day. It sounds like your only paid for your actual instructional time that you spend in class, and its only those hours that "count". If you really arent teaching 18-20 hours a week, than I have to agree with Teach Now, your not a full time IT, and your placement isnt suitable for their program. You could look into options to expand your teaching hours either with another IS or look at a different program such as Teach Ready.
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Re: American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citize

Postby embelabe » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:01 am

@PsyGuy

Thanks for your patience and responses. In-class experience/guidance can be important and my current job leaves much to be desired in the way of offering opportunities to grow as a teacher. I was looking into online programs again and I came across the American Board for the Certification of Teacher Excellence (ABCTE) ( http://abcte.org/certification/how-it-works/). It it hard to tell whether this is a credential program or just a set of materials and permission to take the credential exams. Do you know anything about it? Thanks so much.
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Postby PsyGuy » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:03 am

@embelabe

No, its not a credentialing program, as it doesnt lead to a credential. In all the state options you need to complete additional requirements that typically include completion of a field experience. Look at the requirements for FL for example yes you can get a temporary certificate by completing the ABCTE, but you can also get one at much less cost and time by simply completing the FTCE exam or simply having a major in the credential sought. Given that UT offers a initial credential by having a degree in the teaching area and passing the PRAXIS exam, with no EPP/ITT program, the ABCTE program becomes moot. Why go through the time and resources for what is essentially a certificate that doesnt allow you to do more than what you can obtain by applying directly by either having a major and/or completing an exam.
Regardless of which pathway in the ABCTE program you take you will still need to meet the citizenship requirements, as ACTE will not allow you to avoid or bypass those requirements.

The program is nothing more than a study program for the exams with a few seminars thrown in, and at the cost of $1900-$3100 it is a VERY expensive test preparation program.
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Re: American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citize

Postby Boomba » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:44 am

@PsyGuy

Hello!

I am really thankful for your dedication in this forum and despite I have spent hours to do my homework and find answers about licensing and accreditations, it seems that you are the most qualified to answer my questions. Of course, anyone with a suggestion is more than welcome! :)

I am French.
I have:
- a Bachelor's degree of Sciences in Education. Bachelors are achieved in 3 years in France.
- a Master's degree (2 years) in education/teaching provided by the official center training future teachers. The subject is Primary subjects with a specialty in teaching literature, languages, and humanities.
- I did not do a practicum but I did a long stage as a teacher within my master. I won't do it in France anyway.
- I have 6 years of experience in different kind of schools and curricula in different countries but not accredited by the UK or USA nor France.
- I mostly taught French (FSL) at all levels up to uni, but mostly in Primary.

Ultimately, I plan on getting a QTS, as soon as I get the necessary US credentials to do so.
I am not certified in my country.

Last, due to equivalences and "bridges", I only had to do the third and last year of my bachelor to get it. Therefore I don't know what to say to the NACES partners as I cannot provide the whole 3 years of transcripts for my BEd but, instead, 2 years of Associate in "performing arts" + 1 year of BEd...

What do you recommend me to do and what certification route should I choose? I don't really care whether I get a license in Primary of French if I can get a QTS which would remove the hiring obstacles in most of the upper-tiers schools.

Thank you! :)
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Postby PsyGuy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:53 am

@Boomba

As long as your first degree was 180 credits as defined by the Bologna process your 3 year bachelors degree should be fine.

Have you taken one of the exams that lead to the title of "Professeur" (such as the CRPE for primary education)? If you havent than you do not have the equivalent of a US professional educator credential.

How long was your long stage in contact hours in a field placement? Not that it would matter much as you cant verify it, which means you havent completed the equivalent of an EPP/ITT program.

What kind of ISs, were they credited by someone thats a regulating authority?
Were these mainly language schools or bilingual schools or early child hood centers?

Just got to the point where you arent credentialed.

Well you dont say anything to them, there isnt a "wait i can explain" NACES will take your transcript and an evaluator will compare it to a standards, and provide an equivalence for what it is.
If you have only a transcript for a single years worth of credits that led to a Bachelors thats what the evaluation will say, which isnt likely to be accepted as equivalent to the 4 year Bachelors degree in the US, which is one of the core requirements for an educator credential.

First, you have to get the NACES evaluation done, its going to be critical what its conclusion is. Assuming it produces an outcome thats acceptable, there really is only one program in the US your going to be able to enter into, and thats going to be the Teach Now program.
Whichever subject you can get a teaching appointment at to do your field work. I would recommend primary, and then add French if you have a choice.

The other option and my recommendation since youve taught at a number of different grade levels is the AO pathway to QTS. It will cost about a third of the Teach Now program.
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Re: American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citize

Postby Boomba » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:15 am

Many thanks for this quick answer. :)

As long as your first degree was 180 credits as defined by the Bologna process your 3 year bachelors degree should be fine.
===>
I have 3 years of transcripts with only one year (year 3) of Bachelor (aka Licence) of Education, same university.
3 years in France is generally equivalent to 4 years in the USA, except for very competitive unis.

Have you taken one of the exams that lead to the title of "Professeur" (such as the CRPE for primary education)? If you havent than you do not have the equivalent of a US professional educator credential.
===>
As I said, no. All I had to do was to take a competition test + one year of probation teaching. I won't develop the reasons but I am NOT interested in doing so at all. However, I took what I would call the ITT as I trained in the establishment of training future teachers.

How long was your long stage in contact hours in a field placement? Not that it would matter much as you cant verify it, which means you havent completed the equivalent of an EPP/ITT program.
====>
What do you mean by "can't verify it"?
Within my two-year master, I had 3 stages, one was in France as a Primary school teacher for a few months in part-time, one 3 months in the Netherlands in secondary, and one of at least 6 months as a lecturer in a uni. The last one was because I took a 3rd year as I was unable to provide my thesis the first time.

What kind of ISs, were they credited by someone thats a regulating authority?
Were these mainly language schools or bilingual schools or early child hood centers?
===>
Nope, one was a CIE examination center with local accreditation (Y4 up to IGCSE). Another one has an Ontario accreditation (KG-G3). Others are not IS or higher education.

Just got to the point where you arent credentialed.
===>
Lol, I know that... This is why I am thinking of other routes/pathway to get certified. :)

Well you dont say anything to them, there isnt a "wait i can explain" NACES will take your transcript and an evaluator will compare it to a standards, and provide an equivalence for what it is.
If you have only a transcript for a single years worth of credits that led to a Bachelors thats what the evaluation will say, which isnt likely to be accepted as equivalent to the 4 year Bachelors degree in the US, which is one of the core requirements for an educator credential.
===>
I have also that 2-year Master's degree from our official teacher training center and in the continuity of my bachelor of education. Should not be considered as, at least, a Bachelor of Education in the US??! That would be quite funny to me. Or at least, my Master in Education could attest to a higher level than a Bachelor. This is where I am confused. As we talk about equivalences. Is it content or level minded? Meaning, is it mostly about the course by course content that I learned or mostly about the level that I have acquired in this area?
I believe that my French ITT won't be rejected in the USA, or I misunderstood the exact meaning of ITT/EPP.

First, you have to get the NACES evaluation done, its going to be critical what its conclusion is. Assuming it produces an outcome thats acceptable, there really is only one program in the US your going to be able to enter into, and thats going to be the Teach Now program.
Whichever subject you can get a teaching appointment at to do your field work. I would recommend primary, and then add French if you have a choice.
===>
Why not French? Is the praxis of French about the language, about didactic or a mix of many things related to French and teaching? I thought I could take this one to prove what I can do in this field.

The other option and my recommendation since youve taught at a number of different grade levels is the AO pathway to QTS. It will cost about a third of the Teach Now program.
===>
Thanks. You are right. I was reading about it, but I can't figure out if I can do it while working abroad. Do you know?? And who's gonna be a "suitable" mentor as they call it? Some companies clearly mention that it has to be in England. Others remain unclear...

Oh, I have also an official 8 pages TPA from Canada. Not sure if any state would consider such document...

Again, thank you. :)
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Postby PsyGuy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:41 pm

@Boomba

I would generally agree with you, however there are regulatory authorities that do not agree, and by policy or regulation when they cite 4 year degrees as being required, that and nothing is is acceptable. Much is going to depend on what the NACES evaluation states, everything else at this point is mere academic discourse.

Honestly, if you had aggregation or an award of Professeur is would be a lot easier, its going to depend what the NACES evaluation states.

What I mean by verify it, is does the transcript state a course along the lines of: practicum, internship, student teaching, field experience, etc. If you had this experience as part of other courses, its not likely to be considered equal to field experience no matter how long it was, and since the experience didnt lead to a credential its not unlikely that they consider you a "non program completer", so much of this is going to, again, depend what the NACES evaluation states.

Its likely they will count some of that experience, the other ISs may not have been ISs but were they accredited locally by the MOE or some other national or regional regulating authority?

Ive seen this happen before where the evaluation states you have a masters but not a bachelors (as define by the regulatory authority, and depending on the regulatory authority the regulations and rules for a credential dictates you have a Bachelors degree, and does not include the language of "or higher" or similar language.

It depends what the NACES evaluation states, its not just an issue of having the appropriate degree, but having specific coursework, most importantly the trinity of professional educator courses (the trinity is C&I, meds/peds, and assessment), a masters in education can actually have very few if any professional education coursework. Ive seen M.Eds that were basically business light degrees, that were absent any actual education courses. In addition there are significant pathways in various masters programs that focus on academics and not practice, that really dont prepare candidates for the classroom as practitioners.

Its mostly concerned with 1) Reaching a certain minimum level of education typically a bachelors. 2) Have coursework in specific subjects, most importantly the minimum of the trinity described above, and a field experience.

ITT = Initial Teacher Training, a common term in the UK for the training of professional educators that leads to credentialing.
EPP= Educator Preparation Program, a common term in the US for the training of professional educators that leads to credentialing.

Primary is becoming more difficult to qualify for, more regulatory authorities are requiring a candidate complete an ITT/EPP, or other type of program to add primary/elementary education. In general French as a FL can be added by assessment alone.

You can do it while abroad, assuming the institution cooperates. The ones that do will require a faculty member at the IS (most likely in leadership) serve as the assessor at your IS. There has also been successful AO candidates that recorded their lessons and sent them to the Uni for the assessment.

I feel very comfortable concluding that they likely wouldnt find your TPA acceptable in regards to credentialing.
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