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Canada - foreign teacher

Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby Walter » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:44 pm

@DavePinoccio
"Ive taught in one and am licensed in two."

Er how long is your nose right now? You forget that some of us have seen your resume!
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby shadowjack » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:05 am

PsyGuy, having had children in curricula in 5 different countries and, within Canada, several different provinces, my kids will tell you there are significant differences between curriculums. Content is only part of a curriculum. Some content will overlap, but strangely enough, based on significant provincial input, other content is NOT the same. Skills and content are not the same thing - Canadian education delivers skills very well (the country with the most uni graduates as a percentage of the population), but the content/curriculum that drove those skills? Very different, because THERE IS NO NATIONAL CURRICULUM.

Couple of more questions - are you Canadian? How long did you teach in Canada? LOL
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Postby PsyGuy » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:47 pm

@walter

Same length as it was before. Still dont know what you think you know.

@SJ

Yes there is a CAN NC, we disagree, and yes there is more to curriculum than content and scope and sequence it also includes meds/peds and they are congruent across provinces.
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby Walter » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:09 pm

"Deny, deny until you die", Dave, but the truth will catch up with you. I know the schools you worked at and for how long, and I know in detail how the last one ended.
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Postby PsyGuy » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:20 pm

@walter

You have seen nothing, and know nothing. You dont know what you think you know, and you dont even know that.
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby momentofclarity » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:03 am

So just thought I would add my 2c to a pointless argument. What else to do while on a holiday right? It is good to know that some members of the forum have fully embraced the notion of "alternative facts" so whole-heartedly.

I have provided a link to the NCEE, an organization that - education systems, they offer a pretty clear-cut statement in the first sentence under the heading of "Curriculum". While there is some alignment between provinces it is explicitly stated that there is no National, federal or otherwise shared curriculum between provinces in Canada. Any argument otherwise is simply wrong. There is an argument for alignment, shared ideas/values and commonality of subjects; however, curriculum as defined by this organization and education authorities in Canada is not shared.

http://ncee.org/what-we-do/center-on-in ... l-systems/
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Postby PsyGuy » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:29 am

@momentofclarity

NCEEs opinion, you can find plenty of organizations that publish their position on a range of educational topics. Even in your own citation the source states that the CMEC established best practices and a framework of compulsory subjects. You can argue thats not enough to be a NC, my position is that it is enough to be an NC.
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby mamava » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:40 pm

From NCEE (National Centre on Education and the Economy) Washington, DC

Canada does not have a national curriculum; rather, the provincial governments are responsible for establishing the curriculum for their schools, and each province has its own, ministry-established common curriculum. However, the Ministers of Education from each province have joined together in the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada (CMEC), in order to establish best practices in a collaborative effort.

From the Canadian Association of Public Schools--International

Canada’s public education system consists of schools from Kindergarten to Grade 12. All public schools in Canada are provincially accredited, follow a standard curriculum, employ only government certified teachers and are publicly funded. While the education system in each province contains many similarities, each has its own Study Canada curriculum and guidelines to reflect the culture and history of its region.
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Postby PsyGuy » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:26 am

@mamava

Havent changed anything, the NCEE and the CAPS have an opinion, you can find plenty of organizations that publish their position on a range of educational topics.
As you stated in your own citation from the CAPS "All public schools in Canada are provincially accredited, follow a standard curriculum..." Follow a standard curriculum, how is "standard curriculum" confusing?

I've stated this example in previous posts, it appears warranted to do so again. If I walk into a biology, chemistry, physics, maths class, etc.. in BC and than go to PEI its equivalent content and similar meds/peds and any student and DT can cross provinces and study and teach (after undergoing the recognition process. Student A doesnt move from one province to another and have the accepting province say oh you have to retake biology because your previous province got mitosis wrong. Same thing with DTs, they dont say sorry you cant teach biology because your crap Uni and license from your prior province doesnt know what thermodynamics is and they taught you to teach to the backs of students heads.
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby shadowjack » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:06 am

PsyGuy,

having served on a Western Consortium committee, I can tell you that you are wrong. Are you Canadian. Have you taught in Canada for more than a year or two? In multiple jurisdictions. As mentioned I have taught multiple subjects in multiple jurisdictions (3) and each curriculum is different from the other. Or are you telling me that my experience is just my imagination? LOL
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby MaryAnne » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:51 pm

I am licensed in Ontario, and taught in public and independent schools there for 30 years, seeing many incarnations of curriculum. Also served as major HoD in both systems, with responsibility for assessing students coming in from other jurisdictions.
"Standard curriculum" unambiguously refers to the Provincial standard curriculum. Students entering secondary school in Ontario, from outside Ontario (students from other provinces are treated exactly the same as those coming from US, Asia, Caribbean, etc. I assessed many such in the independent school), are assessed in individual subjects, and placed accordingly. This means, for example, that a kid coming in from Alberta at 16 years old, might be placed in a G11 advanced math class, but Grade 10 Science, and grade 12 Art. Or not. This is because the curricula are different. (This was a loose example, I am making no assertions on the different qualities of course). One of the beauties of the Ontario system, is that subjects are taught by credit, (120 hours), and so it is both possible and common for kids to be in different Year groups for different subjects. Some Provinces have standardized external exams. Others, like Ontario, do not. There is no National Curriculum, no matter how it is defined.

However, it is certainly true, that in my experience, in Math, by the time students have completed four years of high school, those in comparable levels of study have covered much the same material, though often in vastly different orders. Current buzzwords and educational magic bullets differ vastly from province to province, and country to country but in Math at least, content is reassuringly similar. But as math teachers so often claim, "math is different".
As someone else said, a rather pointless argument as the actual verifiable facts are clear and easily accessible. But it is holiday time
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Postby PsyGuy » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:47 am

@SJ

Having not served on western consortium committee, I conclude that you are wrong. We disagree, and I seriously doubt a consortium of anything will ever convince me of anything. I have taught in Canada (PEI), and I am not Canadian (yet). I can not reconcile your experience with mine.

@MaryAnne

You are right it is not unambiguous, it clearly refers to a Canadian curriculum not a provincial curriculum, it states Canada not the name of a province.

We disagree, what you have addressed is scope and sequence (mainly sequence), and while that is an aspect of a curriculum it is not the entirety of it. Its not relevant at the point of school leaving level, when conference occurs, if a student completed X requirement in one year as opposed to another, It got done.
In yet another example, a student from Ontario, PEI and Alberta applies to a degree program at UBC in X subject, the diplomas of all 3 students are deemed equivalent, they had different performance and took different courses some subjects more in depth than others, but UBC doesnt say "Sorry you graduated from Alberta, youre an rtard, you cant go to Uni.".
There is absolutely a CAN NC, and while its defined differently, it does exist. Factoring a binomial may happen at different times and follow and proceed different topics but that and cellular division, thermo-dynamics, the The Crusades, and Shakespeare all happen and with equivalent content outcomes, the when and where (scope/sequence) and how/why (meds/peds) are aspects of curriculum only, and while they differ they arent absent.

Those arent facts, they are opinions, opinions of organizations but still opinions. The fact is CAN has a NC
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby shadowjack » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:45 am

PG - there is a reason why they are deemed equivalent. It's because they are at the same level. But one curriculum will have taught different things than another curriculum, the exceptions being math and science. Other than that, everything is fair game for what is taught and provinces vary widely. But you taught in Canada's smallest province and seem to have externalized that to ALL of Canada.

Implying there is a NC because a university accepts each province as equally worthy is like me saying - "Wow. All International Schools in IB follow a Canadian National Curriculum. They must, because universities, such as UBC< accept them as equals with all Canadian students" However, that would be a gross fallacy.
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Postby PsyGuy » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:03 am

@SJ

So now there is a CAN NC in terms of science and maths? No, they really dont teach different things, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, Foster, Fitzgerald, the color wheel, how to make a coil pot, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Impressionism, Cubism, Existentialism, Freud, Piaget, Erickson, The 100 Years War, The War of the Roses, WW1, WW2, The Mayans, The Middle Ages, The Renaissance. I could go on and on, and on, and they are taught equivalently across provinces, variation in sequence, and a little in scope, but otherwise equivalent.

CAN has a NC, we disagree.
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Re: Canada - foreign teacher

Postby shadowjack » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:08 am

PsyGuy - if you think the list of things you names is taught across ALL provinces, you are dreaming big time. Two of the three jurisdictions I taught in didn't teach items you listed as supposedly being "National Curriculum".

Too funny. And notice I didn't say there was a NC for Science and Math - I said those are the two areas where what is taught is likely to be similar across Canada, not because of NC, but because UNIVERSITIES expect certain entrance standards and background knowledge for science courses. Go figure.

You seem to ignore my positing that IB schools worldwide really are Canadian National Curriculum Schools because, following your logic, Canadian Universities, such as UBC< accept them for university entrance.
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