Too much qualified?

[Olivier1810]

Hello, I just have a question, am I too much qualified or is there really something I'm doing wrong??
Let me explain: I have 2 PhDs, the first in applied mathematics and the second in computer science from high known university in europe, and now around 21 years of experience and 18 in international schools..I was mostly HOD in math or ICT and I'm specialist in IB and IGCSE curriculum...every year is the same pb, I apply to hundreds of positions and in the best case I have 2 offers, but most of the time only 1..so what is the problem? I'm sure most schools don't even rear my resume as I receive a lot of sorry but you don't have the required experience/qualification for this role...Is it because i'm french? (I left france in 1989 and live in South Africa since)
Can someone explain to me what i'm doing wrong?

Thanks a lot for your patience and time...

Dr Olivier Attias

[shadowjack]

Dr. Olivier - have you ever been to a job fair? Are you registered with Search Associates or ISS? Signed up for TIEonline?

If you haven't been to a fair and you aren't registered and signed up, get going- jobs are coming up now!!!

[Olivier1810]

Thanks for your answer,
along the years I registered with search associates, and applied to like 35 offers, and actively looking on TESonline and other teachers websites, I spent hours to fill my profile on tenth of website and apply to lots throught all of them...but visibly schools don't even aknowledge for reception of my file most of the time...
I'm not especially talking about now but the last 18 years for me was sending 100 cv and got 1 offer, sometimes 2, the lucky years...
Fortunately i never stayed without a job, but I'm still thinking that something must be wrong or done better to have more opportunities with my experience in 6 different syllabus in math and my PhDs..

[vandsmith]

most of the international schools want native english speakers - there are obviously some who won't mind but that is something that i immediately thought of. also, is your CV/resume in english? the reason i ask is because your writing is a little choppy and awkwardly worded in spots. i don't mean to be "english-centric" but again, it's just something that came to mind. if you cover letter/CV is in english make sure you have someone very familiar with the language read it over for you.

as for over-qualified, 2 PHDs is a lot but hey that's your specialty. the only reason i can think of someone holding it against you is in terms of salary, and whether or not you've spent too much time in academia to be relatable to kids.

i think face to face would be your best avenue so schools don't think they're getting scammed somehow by someone claiming to have 2 doctorates, especially IF those were earned in a well respected, well known, and accredited university in europe.

i wish you the best of luck!

v.

[Olivier1810]

Thanks for your answer,
My resume and cover letter are in english and were done by specialist agencies with "natural" born english...
I'm teaching since 21 years in english only and quite franckly start to loose my french as i never practice...

here is my cover letter if you have time to put a look at it:

Dear sir/Madam, I hope you have a good day,

I'm writing in response to the employment opportunity available on your website. Hence I'm very interested in the position,
I am a qualified maths teacher with 18 years of experience, currently teaching at ........ International school, in ........., I still have 6 years to work and I am looking for a unique school to end my career.
Originally from Rhône-Alpes in France, I studied Mathematics and Computer Science at the Universities of Grenoble, Lyon and Chicago. I holds a Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics and a Ph.D. in Computer Technology and Programming Language, I earned the Aggregation (High School and University credential which is the highest level you can have to Lecture in France) in mathematics. I taught 5 years in the south of France before joining the faculty at the Lycée International de Los Angeles then San Diego (SDFAS) where I taught the IB program in Middle and High school.
Then, I joined the Lyceum Kennedy in New York where I taught the International Baccalaureate to IB1 and IB2 standard and high level.
I married a South African woman and moved then to Johannesburg, South Africa, where I taught to different institution the IB Diploma and the IGCSE. Working in South Africa is very difficult, so I decided to go back to work in international positions, Like Indonesia (IGCSE), China and Egypt (IB1 and 2 High level).
I personally believe that my experience and education make me a strong candidate for this particular opportunity in teaching. Thanks to the different international positions I have been exposed to, ranging from USA to asia, I have gained experience in the IB and the IGCSE curriculum and the management of all different cultures.
As I know, these skills are appreciated by your organization, and therefore I believe I will be a valuable asset to your team. I really think that my combination of experience, skills and knowledge suit your expectation regarding the profile for the advertised position.
As requested I am enclosing my resume along with referees, and a recent passport pic.
Please feel welcome to contact me via telephone or email should you require additional information.
Thank you very much for your consideration and time,
Looking forward to hearing from you
Kind regards
Olivier Attias Ph.Ds.

Thanks a lot for your time and reply

[PsyGuy]

I read through the topic stream, and adjusted my response with the ongoing discussion, here are the issues:

1) Your use of language and cover letter do not read as from a natural English speaker. It sounds technical and when put together within English structure does not flow organically.

2) Your opening statement is that you still have 6 years to work, thats a very short period of time to invest in a career IT at the upper tier ISs.

3) You do not have a K12/KS professional educator credential. The concern is that with your qualifications and experience youre likely only suitable at teaching upper secondary (assuming you had a license). Many ISs, especially small ones will want an IT who can work lower secondary (all level) and effectively relate to that age and development level. Im sure you can do lower maths, but the concern they are thinking is that youll demo a maths concept in year 7 and if the students dont get it, you will just demo it again. That doesnt work with struggling learners. Even an IS that wants you, many will have accreditation issues hiring you without a credential.

4) Based on your field and degrees you sound more like an academic, they just dont think someone with your credentials could possibly be happy or be satisfied with teaching in IE. Based on the wording of your resume it sounds like you bounce around often, without much direction. To be blunt, it appears like your looking to maximize your coin over the next 6 years.

5) How old are you and whats your race? Sorry but non-Caucasians have a much harder time in IE, and if you only have 6 more years in IE and "ending your career", it sounds like your in your late 50s, which is passed the turn to be moving into a new position.

6) Youre too expensive, youd be at the top of the salary band and with credit for past experience your probably near the top of the salary steps as well. Youre a foreign academic warming a room, for a few years.

7) They just dont believe you. Your use of English, your location in Africa, your resume that describes more a Uni dean or tenured professor, It sounds like the start of a scam, with the next message they get from you pleading that you, your spouse and 15 students are on a study abroad and you are stuck at the airport having to pay a departure tax of $1000 and if you will only wire them the money your IS in S.Africa will reimburse them, or the HOS of your IS died but because of some detail int he will you will receive an endowment of €1.52 million Euro, that you will split with someone who will wire you the estate tax of 6,000€.

[Olivier1810]

wow, Ok, thanks to be franck..

at least I know that something is going wrong.. Btw I'm caucasian, and I will turn 48 next month...

my credential is a french aggregation, (from the national education) which allow you, In france, to teach math from 6th to 12th, and I have and extension to work in university.
I actually taught all my career in middle and high school..
As most of the school only offer a 1 or 2 years contract I though that saying that I still have 6 years to work will show them that I really want to stabilize...
So, what are your advises?
must I give my age on the cover letter? I will take off that part about still have 6 years to work..
must I add that my credential and experiences cover middle and high school? what else?
thanks for your help,
Looking forward to hearing from you

[PsyGuy]

@Olivier1810

I dont have advice to fix everything, I cant readily fix your use of English, you could polish it with enough outside editing but any recruiter talking to you is going to recognize the foreignness of your English. I also cant fix your nationality, in the eyes of many ISs if your not from the US/UK/CAN/AUS you arent the type of westerner they are looking for.

I know what the aggregation is, I assumed you had the aggregation superior, based on your doctoral work for Uni instruction. Most candidates who study for an aggregation do so at around the masters level, not the doctoral level. Irregardless, The problem is youre using terminology that is alien to anyone outside of a FS or Lycee, and the vast majority of ISs us either a US or UK curriculum.

Yes most IS contracts are 2 years (some are 1 year, and some are 3), you just dont want to put X number of years availability in a cover letter/introduction email. 6 years and finishing out your career sounds very "final", and upon reaching that time you are going to go do something else.

You dont need to give your age and race in your cover letter, in some regions such as Asia at host national ISs age can be an issue, but your passport gives them the information they need and want.

A few suggestions:

1) Have you considered directing your energies towards an international FS/Lycee, I realize your french might be a little under developed with the passing of time, but how hard would it be to start practicing?

2) Have you thought of returning back to France? There are a number of ISs, especially come Spring that will be more likely to give your resume full consideration.

3) You dont need too, but you may want to obtain a US credential and QTS. Missouri will issue you an entry level educator credential upon completion of the professional knowledge exam and an application. The exam would eb a pain to do though. However you could then use that credential and apply for QTS in the UK, this would give you credentials that are easily recognized for both US and UK NCs.

4) Personally, and this tastes awful having to say it because I experienced it myself, but you might want to consider 'dumbing' down your resume. I found my doctoral degree was more a liability when applying for classroom teaching vacancies at anything that wasnt an elite tier IS. Below that a doctoral degree is a qualification you see in leadership. You can experiment with it, take out the doctoral degrees and just leave the masters and see what action your resume then gets in IE.

5) Have you considered leadership? It sounds like you have the experience. You can take the SLLA exam offered by ETS and then apply for an administrative credential from D.C. (District of Columbia) you have the experience.

[Olivier1810]

Yes, I knew that posting on that forum will be a good thing to do...That is the suggestions I was waiting for.
Thanks a lot Psyguy for your time answering me.
suggestion 1 - I worked in some international FS, international lycee (in los angeles, NY, Johannesburg) and unfortunately, the salary range is far from what I earn today in International school, and they don't offer benefit at all. (when I asked how it works once to a HR in FS, he answered me, very easy : you will find many taxis at the airport, go to town, find an hotel, back to school is the 28th of august, bye)
suggestion 2 - I applied to International schools in France, and in Franch speaking countries, thinking it will be better for me as they were asking for a teacher who can speak french and english with knowledge of French syllabus and IB/Igcse, and I never had answers (that's why I posted on that forum, what is the pb?)
suggestion 3 - an exam again? at my age....not sure I will have the patience to prepare it..
suggestion 4 - some schools especially in the gulf quite like the fact to have a Dr as a teacher to present to their parents and I got some jobs because of it....I'm scared that if I downgrade my resume I will still have opportunities
suggestion 5 - that sounds very good....how can I do?

maybe we can continue that talk on a more private way than that forum? what do you think?

Thanks a lot for all that constructive suggestions, and for the time you spent with me, really appreciate!!

Wish you a great evening

[PsyGuy]

@Olivier1810

1) Well LA and NY Lycee is endemic of the US market, they tend to offer LH packages or very lite OSH packages. You would find fuller OSH packages in Asia.

2) Thats France, it likely sounded like too much trouble. If you were there on site and could visit for an interview, had a place, and maybe did some relief/supply/lecturing teaching locally it would have been a different story. What they were likely thinking was "hes not here".

3) Actually, you wouldn't have to complete an exam if you applied through Hawaii (HI). First you need to apply for a review of your credentials and qualifications though NACES, they will review and very likely accept your aggregation as equivalent to a professional license. Your bachelors degree will meet the basic skill requirements and your doctoral degrees satisfy the subject matter competencies for 6-12 Maths and some K-12 CTE field (likely Industrial and Engineering technology or Arts and Communication Technology), there is no CRB requirement, and you dont pay the license fee until you are offered the certification you would be eligible for. This would be the Standard certificate or possibly the Advance certificate. No exams, just forms that need to completed and the NACES evaluation. You could then either apply for QTS and either allow the Hawaii certificate to expire, or you could maintain it by completing PD (5 years for the standard or 10 years for the advance). The other option is you could then take the PRAXIS exams for ESOL and PLT (these are available world wide) and after adding that you could then do the CRB and apply for the CA CLEAR credential which has no PD requirement.

4) Yes some ISs are generally impressed with a doctoral degree, but you have two, that screams academic (and neither of them is in education). If you want to take baby steps try removing one of your doctoral degrees. This isnt something you cant change back again later if it doesnt work, were trying to figure out what the problem is and make you fit the mold of a more typical IT. Sometimes you want to be the brightest light in the room, and sometimes you want to blend in.

5) Well youd have to take an exam its called the SLLA (School Leaders Licensing Assessment), its offered by a US company called ETS. Its about USD$450, you can take it world wide. If you pass the test then with 4 years teaching experience and your doctoral degree you would be eligible for the standard administrator credential in the District of Columbia. The application fee is USD$50 and is valid for 4 years, you still need to have the NACES evaluation done.

I prefer staying on the forum, I strongly believe in the values and principals of this forum and site, and discussing your issues here mean they are available for future readers to see. Your situation is somewhat more unique, but in my years of doing this, very little is truly new and surprising to me anymore.

[Dredge]

I second the English problem. I guarantee I wouldn't be able to get a job teaching science in Spanish, but I can speak it quite well. No where near native, though.

[Olivier1810]

Thanks Dredge, but just FYI, I'm teaching since 18 years in English, in International schools and universities all over the world and I never have complain about my English...my concern was, why I have only 1 or 2 offers a year with my resume and not more...

[vandsmith]

as someone else has said, if your interest lies in middle school and high school and you have 2 "related to teaching" doctorates, you'd be on the top of the salary scale. you might be too expensive. maybe those one or two offers were from the only schools that could afford you, or were willing to take a chance on you.

if you're having trouble, why not do as PG says and drop the doctorates, stick with a masters (which is what a lot of teachers have these days) and try your luck? i mean, alternatively, keep the doctorates and go strictly university. two doctorates couldn't have been that easy, and i doubt you have a burning desire to teach grade 6 math.

i guess to your original point, yes you are "too much qualified" and that is likely why you're not getting a ton of replies. one doctorate is usually enough for anyone not receiving honorary doctorates anyways! but it depends on how you want to market yourself. you only want to work for a few more years?

best of luck to you!

v.

[chilagringa]

... There's a comma splice in the first paragraph of your letter

[Dredge]

I am really not trying to beat a dead horse, but your response proves my point. If you're written English is indicative of your spoken English, it might put off a lot of schools, thereby limiting your offers. It just ain't that good;-).