Hi all! After completion of the PGCE IDL Sunderland I think it's time to do a masters. Looking through the options of universities mostly in UK and Europe (I would like to move to Europe eventually, I have Italian passport) I see most of them are not accredited by an external body. I have to do an online masters as I cannot afford it if I am not working, and I am currently teaching in Thailand.
There are some masters that are accredited by the International Baccalaureate Organisation, but you would only gain this accreditation after teaching in an IB school, which is not my case. I guess it is still useful that the programme has such accreditation available, but I am wondering how truly important it is.
I've also considered the Moreland Masters but none of the 6 pathways resonates with me. I feel that considering the time and effort it will take, I should choose a programme that I find interesting... This is why so far I haven't chosen Sunderland's masters.
What are your views on accreditations through external bodies for master degrees in education?
Thank you very much for your time!
How important is for a Masters in Education to be accredited by an external body?
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Tol_Eressea
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:36 am
Response
Most Western Unis outside of the US are not "accredited" by an external body. In most of these regions the regulating authority is some office/department/agency in the the national government. Some programs do have an affiliation with an external organization (such as a society, etc.) but the accreditation is a government process and system. These degrees are just as valid and legitimate as those granted by the regional external accreditation organizations (WASC, etc.) in the US. In the US the US DOE maintains a list of approved accrediting organizations these can be broken down into: "regional" accrediting organizations (WASC, etc.), "national" accrediting organizations and "program" (professional) accreditation. Instead in EUR the government directly grants accreditation. In England the Ofs (Office for Students), maintains a registry of approved (and accredited) universities that you can search.
https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/ad ... egister/#/
The IBO doesnt accredit Unis, not in the way that we think of accreditation. The IBO has a partnership with various institutions (and some non Uni organizations) where the Uni has composed a program (most leading to a degree) that then results in the student being eligible for a T&L (IBEC) certificate (with some exceptions). There is no requirement to teach in an IB IS after completing the program to obtain "accreditation". You can apply for the certificate immediately upon completion. There is a general pre-enrollment requirement of having taught for three years in an IB program for the T&L Advanced certificate, but this requirement can be met through other means and its not uncommon for those with less IB experience to enroll. Most of these programs are rather expensive (though many of them provide an online option). You may want to look at UPe (University of the People) which has a very inexpensive M.Ed program with collaboration with the IBO. It does not provide eligibility for a IBEC certificate but the main benefit is meeting the PD authorization requirements for IB ISs which is the primary benefit of the IBECs. You should be aware that outside of the IBO itself and a few classic IBWS most IB ISs and leaders dont consider the IBECs as being worth very much.
Moreland has only National US accreditation which is the weakest of the three in the US. You would have problems having your degree recognized and considering the alternatives (UPe) isnt worth the inflated cost (UPe is about USD$4K, Moreland $14K both are accredited by the same National level accrediter but Moreland doesnt have the IB advantage).
In IE the status/prestige of the Uni matters far more than external accreditation (as long as the Uni has legitimate accreditation). Doing the M.Sc in Learning and Teaching from Oxford has far more marketability than some external accrediting body. Likewise a Masters from Sunderland is going to have more utility than a degree from Moreland or UPe.
As far as interests are concerned most taught Masters programs in edu tend to be very similar. Unis have there own pet niches but this usually only varies a couple courses at most. Many of the courses you take are based on meds/peds/asst, some research and some special populations, depending on the program focus.
https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/ad ... egister/#/
The IBO doesnt accredit Unis, not in the way that we think of accreditation. The IBO has a partnership with various institutions (and some non Uni organizations) where the Uni has composed a program (most leading to a degree) that then results in the student being eligible for a T&L (IBEC) certificate (with some exceptions). There is no requirement to teach in an IB IS after completing the program to obtain "accreditation". You can apply for the certificate immediately upon completion. There is a general pre-enrollment requirement of having taught for three years in an IB program for the T&L Advanced certificate, but this requirement can be met through other means and its not uncommon for those with less IB experience to enroll. Most of these programs are rather expensive (though many of them provide an online option). You may want to look at UPe (University of the People) which has a very inexpensive M.Ed program with collaboration with the IBO. It does not provide eligibility for a IBEC certificate but the main benefit is meeting the PD authorization requirements for IB ISs which is the primary benefit of the IBECs. You should be aware that outside of the IBO itself and a few classic IBWS most IB ISs and leaders dont consider the IBECs as being worth very much.
Moreland has only National US accreditation which is the weakest of the three in the US. You would have problems having your degree recognized and considering the alternatives (UPe) isnt worth the inflated cost (UPe is about USD$4K, Moreland $14K both are accredited by the same National level accrediter but Moreland doesnt have the IB advantage).
In IE the status/prestige of the Uni matters far more than external accreditation (as long as the Uni has legitimate accreditation). Doing the M.Sc in Learning and Teaching from Oxford has far more marketability than some external accrediting body. Likewise a Masters from Sunderland is going to have more utility than a degree from Moreland or UPe.
As far as interests are concerned most taught Masters programs in edu tend to be very similar. Unis have there own pet niches but this usually only varies a couple courses at most. Many of the courses you take are based on meds/peds/asst, some research and some special populations, depending on the program focus.
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Tol_Eressea
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:36 am
Re: How important is for a Masters in Education to be accredited by an external body?
Dear PsyGuy,
Thank you so much for all your wise information!!! I think it saved me loads of google searches. I did find the UPe and asked IBO about it, and when they told me I would not get the IBEC certificate with it I kept searching. They even gave me a list of unis with IBEC but all the unis in the UK say that I need to have experience in an IB school to get the IBEC. I asked IBO about this too and they said it was up to the unis.
As a non-native speaker I thought getting a Masters from the UK or US would have more marketability than from any other university, and again considering I would try to move to Europe, a university from the UK would be better choice than US. I take your words too; I had the feeling that a reputable uni from the UK was likely to have more marketability as you said.
Am I correct by thinking that IB is the most popular type of international school in Europe and probably the world? I don't know much about it. I teach Lower Primary, and my feeling was that the most reputable schools had IB, especially in Europe. This is my feeling from googling different schools and from former colleagues' experiences in different schools. I could be completely wrong.
Again, thank you so much for your time, your insight is extremely helpful.
Thank you so much for all your wise information!!! I think it saved me loads of google searches. I did find the UPe and asked IBO about it, and when they told me I would not get the IBEC certificate with it I kept searching. They even gave me a list of unis with IBEC but all the unis in the UK say that I need to have experience in an IB school to get the IBEC. I asked IBO about this too and they said it was up to the unis.
As a non-native speaker I thought getting a Masters from the UK or US would have more marketability than from any other university, and again considering I would try to move to Europe, a university from the UK would be better choice than US. I take your words too; I had the feeling that a reputable uni from the UK was likely to have more marketability as you said.
Am I correct by thinking that IB is the most popular type of international school in Europe and probably the world? I don't know much about it. I teach Lower Primary, and my feeling was that the most reputable schools had IB, especially in Europe. This is my feeling from googling different schools and from former colleagues' experiences in different schools. I could be completely wrong.
Again, thank you so much for your time, your insight is extremely helpful.
Re: How important is for a Masters in Education to be accredited by an external body?
I would like to add to this conversation.
I am starting a seconds Masters from a UK university. I have looked at all the recommendations and have decided on Wrexham or Keele. Wrexham is significantly cheaper but is a rather new university and consistently ranks at the very low end of UK universities and is ranked 4038 in the world. However Keele is ranked similar to Portsmouth and has a world ranking of 632. Wrexham is 6000 pounds where as Keele is 7440. What is your opinion? I am only doing this as my first masters was a general MA in education, and I am moving into a more specific area.
I am starting a seconds Masters from a UK university. I have looked at all the recommendations and have decided on Wrexham or Keele. Wrexham is significantly cheaper but is a rather new university and consistently ranks at the very low end of UK universities and is ranked 4038 in the world. However Keele is ranked similar to Portsmouth and has a world ranking of 632. Wrexham is 6000 pounds where as Keele is 7440. What is your opinion? I am only doing this as my first masters was a general MA in education, and I am moving into a more specific area.
Reply
@Tol_Eressea
You would not get a T&L certificate completing the M.Ed program at UPe. The main issue is revenue and coin. These partnerships generate revenue for the IBO and UPe has very lean operating costs. You would obtain the same material benefit from the UPe M.Ed degree as you would with a T&L certificate, which is meeting the PD authorization requirement.
You can find the IBEC directory of providers here:
https://www.ibo.org/globalassets/new-st ... ory-en.pdf
That is an individual Uni requirement. The IB can establish minimum requirements but they cant prevent a Uni from having a higher requirement to read for a particular degree or study towards a degree at that Uni.
Many degrees from non-western countries are just as equally valid and respected as western degrees from the US/UK/CAN/AUS. For the most part, if a Uni isnt a Global Ivy than a Masters is a Masters. A degree from Acme State in the US or Hogwarts College in the UK worth more than some other accredited degree from elsewhere including Italy.
The issue with Italy isnt acceptability of qualifications but that a credential is limited to being placed on the register of those edu who specifically teach in the public/maintained DE system of DSs. There isnt an independent credential issued by the regulating authority.
The issue with other Unis is that often times the program is delivered in the host language and most of western IE is firmly entrenched in English which limits many programs to US/UK/CAN/AUS though there are Unis that offer advanced degrees in English (even if they are research degrees) there are Unis that offer taught advanced degrees in English.
No, the most common curriculum are NC ISs offering US or UK programs, and in the case of the Eu whatever SLL certificate and corresponding curriculum that region uses and is regulated by their MOE. The IBs programs are popular because they have to be. The IBO has to market their programs to get ISs to pay the coin for them. NC programs have a captive audience. DSs have to teach them and their development is largely (not entirely) supported by tax revenue. ISs can adapt NC curriculum rather inexpensively, while just like the IB you can buy boxes of materials, the NC standards are typically available publicly. ISs pay for inspections and accreditation and association memberships. An IS can print a diploma/certificate or other SLL document based on a NC curriculum but only the IB can provide the IB Baccalaureate, which you have to be an authorized IB IS to submit an order for.
Thats not to say the IB hasnt done a good job, they have. You find a high concentration of second tier ISs with IB programs. Which really moves the conversation to what is an IB IS. The classical definition of an IBWS was an IS IS with all three (PYP, MYP, DIP) programs for its K12/KS curriculum. That changed to be any IS that offered any of the IB programs (PYP, MYP, DIP, CRP) was an IBWS. Outside the EU you find that the DIP program is used as an ISs 'honors' track alongside an NC track. Within the EU you find that the DIP is marketed more as an 'international' track rather than an honors (or advanced, accelerated, etc. track). Within the EU you find a greater level of acceptance for the regional NC and whatever its SLL baccalaureate (certificate, etc.) than for the IB Baccalaureate.
In the UK A-levels are more valuable than the IB Baccalaureate (or IB course certificates). In the US an IB Baccalaureate is more valuable than a HS Diploma.
As to primary, there is utility in having PYP experience which usually means some level of PD training and 1-2 years of PYP experience. The PYP an its UI based thematic (transdisciplinary) approach is very alien to the stranded methodology (as well as its planning approach, etc.) often taught to DTs at Uni or in ITT/EPP programs. It takes at least a year in the classroom of growing pains before a PYP IT is competent, two years before they are proficient, a third year to before seeing expertise with portfolio, and yet another year at the advancing level to appreciate the role of exhibition in the PYP.
There are IB ISs that dont do IB very well, and youd hardly recognize anything IB related in listening to a listen (outside from the giant posters of the IB learner profile). There are not an uncommon number of IB ISs that pay little more than lip service to the IB. The IB does cost coin, and its not lite coin either. ISs need to achieve a certain level of stability and security to implement and execute a successful IB program so you see IB ISS as having that level of security and stability throughout the IS. Thats the kind of indication that says that an IS is doing enough of the right things adequately.
You would not get a T&L certificate completing the M.Ed program at UPe. The main issue is revenue and coin. These partnerships generate revenue for the IBO and UPe has very lean operating costs. You would obtain the same material benefit from the UPe M.Ed degree as you would with a T&L certificate, which is meeting the PD authorization requirement.
You can find the IBEC directory of providers here:
https://www.ibo.org/globalassets/new-st ... ory-en.pdf
That is an individual Uni requirement. The IB can establish minimum requirements but they cant prevent a Uni from having a higher requirement to read for a particular degree or study towards a degree at that Uni.
Many degrees from non-western countries are just as equally valid and respected as western degrees from the US/UK/CAN/AUS. For the most part, if a Uni isnt a Global Ivy than a Masters is a Masters. A degree from Acme State in the US or Hogwarts College in the UK worth more than some other accredited degree from elsewhere including Italy.
The issue with Italy isnt acceptability of qualifications but that a credential is limited to being placed on the register of those edu who specifically teach in the public/maintained DE system of DSs. There isnt an independent credential issued by the regulating authority.
The issue with other Unis is that often times the program is delivered in the host language and most of western IE is firmly entrenched in English which limits many programs to US/UK/CAN/AUS though there are Unis that offer advanced degrees in English (even if they are research degrees) there are Unis that offer taught advanced degrees in English.
No, the most common curriculum are NC ISs offering US or UK programs, and in the case of the Eu whatever SLL certificate and corresponding curriculum that region uses and is regulated by their MOE. The IBs programs are popular because they have to be. The IBO has to market their programs to get ISs to pay the coin for them. NC programs have a captive audience. DSs have to teach them and their development is largely (not entirely) supported by tax revenue. ISs can adapt NC curriculum rather inexpensively, while just like the IB you can buy boxes of materials, the NC standards are typically available publicly. ISs pay for inspections and accreditation and association memberships. An IS can print a diploma/certificate or other SLL document based on a NC curriculum but only the IB can provide the IB Baccalaureate, which you have to be an authorized IB IS to submit an order for.
Thats not to say the IB hasnt done a good job, they have. You find a high concentration of second tier ISs with IB programs. Which really moves the conversation to what is an IB IS. The classical definition of an IBWS was an IS IS with all three (PYP, MYP, DIP) programs for its K12/KS curriculum. That changed to be any IS that offered any of the IB programs (PYP, MYP, DIP, CRP) was an IBWS. Outside the EU you find that the DIP program is used as an ISs 'honors' track alongside an NC track. Within the EU you find that the DIP is marketed more as an 'international' track rather than an honors (or advanced, accelerated, etc. track). Within the EU you find a greater level of acceptance for the regional NC and whatever its SLL baccalaureate (certificate, etc.) than for the IB Baccalaureate.
In the UK A-levels are more valuable than the IB Baccalaureate (or IB course certificates). In the US an IB Baccalaureate is more valuable than a HS Diploma.
As to primary, there is utility in having PYP experience which usually means some level of PD training and 1-2 years of PYP experience. The PYP an its UI based thematic (transdisciplinary) approach is very alien to the stranded methodology (as well as its planning approach, etc.) often taught to DTs at Uni or in ITT/EPP programs. It takes at least a year in the classroom of growing pains before a PYP IT is competent, two years before they are proficient, a third year to before seeing expertise with portfolio, and yet another year at the advancing level to appreciate the role of exhibition in the PYP.
There are IB ISs that dont do IB very well, and youd hardly recognize anything IB related in listening to a listen (outside from the giant posters of the IB learner profile). There are not an uncommon number of IB ISs that pay little more than lip service to the IB. The IB does cost coin, and its not lite coin either. ISs need to achieve a certain level of stability and security to implement and execute a successful IB program so you see IB ISS as having that level of security and stability throughout the IS. Thats the kind of indication that says that an IS is doing enough of the right things adequately.
Reply
@lainey9
If its not a Global Ivy than a Masters is a Masters. Aside from that, how old are the programs in this specialized field? While Keele will have slightly more marketability compared to Wrexham, as youre more likely to find Keele alumni in leadership (hiring) positions, and more recognition in BSs for Keele as a Uni. Wrexham may signal an IS that you have a stronger understanding of the Welsh DE system which may be an advantage (in a very small niche). Other than that there isnt any appreciable level of status associated with Keele. Anyone who knows enough to hold their nose up to Wrexham is likely going to hold their nose up to Keele as well.
If its not a Global Ivy than a Masters is a Masters. Aside from that, how old are the programs in this specialized field? While Keele will have slightly more marketability compared to Wrexham, as youre more likely to find Keele alumni in leadership (hiring) positions, and more recognition in BSs for Keele as a Uni. Wrexham may signal an IS that you have a stronger understanding of the Welsh DE system which may be an advantage (in a very small niche). Other than that there isnt any appreciable level of status associated with Keele. Anyone who knows enough to hold their nose up to Wrexham is likely going to hold their nose up to Keele as well.
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Tol_Eressea
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:36 am
Re: How important is for a Masters in Education to be accredited by an external body?
This is super valuable info, I didn't realize the UK would prefer A levels, which make sense, yet the US prefers IB over theirs... wondering how it is for the other countries in the European region (in or out the European Union) or Middle East!!
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation, it gives me a better picture.
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation, it gives me a better picture.
Reply
@Tol_Eressea
The IB has a rather small presence (by about an order of magnitude) in the UK (about 90 DIP programs) compared to the US (about 940). The rest of the EUR is either comparable to the UK or down by a half an order of magnitude less (single digits or the teens). In general the IB is often the lesser desirable alternative than whatever the NC is, especially within the region. MOEs have far greater control over the regional NC than the IB, and the MOE greatly influences the regional Unis more so than the IBO does. There is a much stronger level of acceptance for the regional SLL qualification than there is for the IB, and some programs (often ones leading to a pro. license) typically have admission requirements that mandate a certain exam result that often doesnt include alternatives.
The IB has a rather small presence (by about an order of magnitude) in the UK (about 90 DIP programs) compared to the US (about 940). The rest of the EUR is either comparable to the UK or down by a half an order of magnitude less (single digits or the teens). In general the IB is often the lesser desirable alternative than whatever the NC is, especially within the region. MOEs have far greater control over the regional NC than the IB, and the MOE greatly influences the regional Unis more so than the IBO does. There is a much stronger level of acceptance for the regional SLL qualification than there is for the IB, and some programs (often ones leading to a pro. license) typically have admission requirements that mandate a certain exam result that often doesnt include alternatives.