Hello everyone!
I am an American who just graduated from college, and I am about to start working at a Hagwon in South Korea next month. Assuming everything goes well with my move over to South Korea, I would love to get a U.S. teaching license through Moreland/TeachNow while I am there so that I can pivot to the international teaching world.
Moreland seems like a convenient way for me to accomplish this goal without having to come back to the US, however a few things are causing me to pause and reconsider this plan altogether. Mainly, I am nervous about Moreland’s legitimacy and if getting a license through their program would potentially put said license at risk further down the line.
After doing a mildly unhealthy amount of research into international teaching and whether or not this path would be possible for someone in my situation, I stumbled upon stories about what went down with Hawaii, and how teachers who went through Moreland were forced to surrender their Hawaiian licenses with only two weeks notice. That really seemed like sort of a nightmare for the people involved, and is a situation that I very much would like to avoid if I am going to go down this path. (Additionally, does anyone know if teachers who had that happen to them had their careers wrecked or if they ended up being okay)?
I know Moreland mainly qualifies teachers for licenses through Washington D.C. which is the path I plan on taking, so it’s not like I would immediately be under fire or like I would be trying to get a Hawaiian license right away or anything. I’m more trying to think of strategies I could take to mitigate the risk of something like this happening to me in the future if DC gets fed up with people having the DC license and not working in DC.
After I get my DC license, maybe I could immediately try and transfer it to another state like NJ or Illinois through reciprocity? Additionally, I was thinking about doing a PGCEi program online once I start working at an international school (off topic but I’m eyeing Kuwait as a potential destination for me to get my two years), so I can have a few things in place to shield me from some of the unstableness getting the DC license through Moreland could potentially cause. Getting a PGCE could also make me more attractive to Tier-3 British schools, which would broaden my horizons some early in my career. (I could be way off with this line of thinking. I know going through Moreland no longer allows US teachers to qualify for QTS as well, so I’m trying to develop a workaround for that as well).
If anyone could help alleviate some of the doubts I’m having about this potential career path and education plan, or just offer general advice on how I could make this all work, I would greatly appreciate it!
Interested in Moreland, but have reservations/anxieties because of potential risks
Inquiry
A couple of essential questions:
1) What do you plan on teaching in IE? Are you going to stay with ESOL or is there another teaching area (specifically one tied to your academic preparation) you intend to pursue?
2) Whats your goal? Is it to transition to IE and stay a classroom IT, do you intend to migrate into leadership or a role that isnt classroom based (counselor, tech, library, coordinator, etc.), is it something else (owning your own tutoring or ESOL business), is it to get into the EU (or JP, or elsewhere) get citizenship (or at least PR) and do something else, move into tertiary (higher ed)?
3) Youre very new to edu, whats your feeling on the ESOL industry as a career? I ask because if the vocational (corporate) ESOL market is really what you want to do and you think a K12/KS teaching credential would help you, youre right, but there are faster and cheaper ways to get one than doing a more expensive and protracted process ITT/EPP program. I suppose its the age old question, why do you want to be a teacher?
4) Do you have any EDU background? Either academic preparation or experience in a classroom.
5) What resources can you pull together? Not just financially, theres a range of options from about USD$100 (ACSI) and Coursera (they have an ESOL certificate program) and programs in ESOL and then theres the more traditional Pro.Ed. options that start at a few hundred USD for asst pathways (MA) and about £3K for AO or a DELTA. Moving up to about twice that for a skills based US pathways and the entry cost of the cheapest UK PGCE(i) programs and other academic Masters programs in EDU and EDU adjacent degrees. Doctoral routes start at about 20K (non-International rate). In addition though what resources do you have access to in terms of completing fieldwork as part of the EPP/ITT program? Teach Now takes 12 weeks which if for no other reason is a long time to be at an IS from 8-4 (maybe 2 or 3) and then going to your Hagwon in the evenings (and maybe weekends) compared to Teach Ready which is 5 days and a lot easier to manage. Which is 5 days too many (and USD$6K too much) if all you need is a credential to check the legal box in IE for a few years.
In very brief reply to your inquiries:
A) Teach Now has issues but they can be circumstantial issues. The DC credential is still a professional grade credential.
B) HI didnt go well for the most part. Those ITs either retained DC or were recommended for initial credentialing in DC so it wasnt career over for the vast majority of them. Many of them werent going to work in the US so they moved on (with a lot of bitterness) but they moved on.
C) You cant apply for reciprocity with HI or for the vast majority of states right away (there are some exceptions such as TX, etc.). Many of them will require you to have prior KS/K12 experience post initial credential.
D) DC (OSSE) isnt likely to get "fed up" with being the clearing house for OS credentialing in the US. Its possible, the big change was years ago and they seem rather content with their current state, but nobody has a crystal ball on these things. For that matter the current state of QTS (and iQTS) is likely to persevere for awhile.
1) What do you plan on teaching in IE? Are you going to stay with ESOL or is there another teaching area (specifically one tied to your academic preparation) you intend to pursue?
2) Whats your goal? Is it to transition to IE and stay a classroom IT, do you intend to migrate into leadership or a role that isnt classroom based (counselor, tech, library, coordinator, etc.), is it something else (owning your own tutoring or ESOL business), is it to get into the EU (or JP, or elsewhere) get citizenship (or at least PR) and do something else, move into tertiary (higher ed)?
3) Youre very new to edu, whats your feeling on the ESOL industry as a career? I ask because if the vocational (corporate) ESOL market is really what you want to do and you think a K12/KS teaching credential would help you, youre right, but there are faster and cheaper ways to get one than doing a more expensive and protracted process ITT/EPP program. I suppose its the age old question, why do you want to be a teacher?
4) Do you have any EDU background? Either academic preparation or experience in a classroom.
5) What resources can you pull together? Not just financially, theres a range of options from about USD$100 (ACSI) and Coursera (they have an ESOL certificate program) and programs in ESOL and then theres the more traditional Pro.Ed. options that start at a few hundred USD for asst pathways (MA) and about £3K for AO or a DELTA. Moving up to about twice that for a skills based US pathways and the entry cost of the cheapest UK PGCE(i) programs and other academic Masters programs in EDU and EDU adjacent degrees. Doctoral routes start at about 20K (non-International rate). In addition though what resources do you have access to in terms of completing fieldwork as part of the EPP/ITT program? Teach Now takes 12 weeks which if for no other reason is a long time to be at an IS from 8-4 (maybe 2 or 3) and then going to your Hagwon in the evenings (and maybe weekends) compared to Teach Ready which is 5 days and a lot easier to manage. Which is 5 days too many (and USD$6K too much) if all you need is a credential to check the legal box in IE for a few years.
In very brief reply to your inquiries:
A) Teach Now has issues but they can be circumstantial issues. The DC credential is still a professional grade credential.
B) HI didnt go well for the most part. Those ITs either retained DC or were recommended for initial credentialing in DC so it wasnt career over for the vast majority of them. Many of them werent going to work in the US so they moved on (with a lot of bitterness) but they moved on.
C) You cant apply for reciprocity with HI or for the vast majority of states right away (there are some exceptions such as TX, etc.). Many of them will require you to have prior KS/K12 experience post initial credential.
D) DC (OSSE) isnt likely to get "fed up" with being the clearing house for OS credentialing in the US. Its possible, the big change was years ago and they seem rather content with their current state, but nobody has a crystal ball on these things. For that matter the current state of QTS (and iQTS) is likely to persevere for awhile.
Re: Inquiry
PsyGuy wrote:
> A couple of essential questions:
>
> 1) What do you plan on teaching in IE? Are you going to stay with ESOL or
> is there another teaching area (specifically one tied to your academic
> preparation) you intend to pursue?
>
> 2) Whats your goal? Is it to transition to IE and stay a classroom IT, do
> you intend to migrate into leadership or a role that isnt classroom based
> (counselor, tech, library, coordinator, etc.), is it something else (owning
> your own tutoring or ESOL business), is it to get into the EU (or JP, or
> elsewhere) get citizenship (or at least PR) and do something else, move
> into tertiary (higher ed)?
>
> 3) Youre very new to edu, whats your feeling on the ESOL industry as a
> career? I ask because if the vocational (corporate) ESOL market is really
> what you want to do and you think a K12/KS teaching credential would help
> you, youre right, but there are faster and cheaper ways to get one than
> doing a more expensive and protracted process ITT/EPP program. I suppose
> its the age old question, why do you want to be a teacher?
>
> 4) Do you have any EDU background? Either academic preparation or
> experience in a classroom.
>
> 5) What resources can you pull together? Not just financially, theres a
> range of options from about USD$100 (ACSI) and Coursera (they have an ESOL
> certificate program) and programs in ESOL and then theres the more
> traditional Pro.Ed. options that start at a few hundred USD for asst
> pathways (MA) and about £3K for AO or a DELTA. Moving up to about twice
> that for a skills based US pathways and the entry cost of the cheapest UK
> PGCE(i) programs and other academic Masters programs in EDU and EDU
> adjacent degrees. Doctoral routes start at about 20K (non-International
> rate). In addition though what resources do you have access to in terms of
> completing fieldwork as part of the EPP/ITT program? Teach Now takes 12
> weeks which if for no other reason is a long time to be at an IS from 8-4
> (maybe 2 or 3) and then going to your Hagwon in the evenings (and maybe
> weekends) compared to Teach Ready which is 5 days and a lot easier to
> manage. Which is 5 days too many (and USD$6K too much) if all you need is a
> credential to check the legal box in IE for a few years.
>
> In very brief reply to your inquiries:
>
> A) Teach Now has issues but they can be circumstantial issues. The DC
> credential is still a professional grade credential.
>
> B) HI didnt go well for the most part. Those ITs either retained DC or were
> recommended for initial credentialing in DC so it wasnt career over for the
> vast majority of them. Many of them werent going to work in the US so they
> moved on (with a lot of bitterness) but they moved on.
>
> C) You cant apply for reciprocity with HI or for the vast majority of
> states right away (there are some exceptions such as TX, etc.). Many of
> them will require you to have prior KS/K12 experience post initial
> credential.
>
> D) DC (OSSE) isnt likely to get "fed up" with being the clearing
> house for OS credentialing in the US. Its possible, the big change was
> years ago and they seem rather content with their current state, but nobody
> has a crystal ball on these things. For that matter the current state of
> QTS (and iQTS) is likely to persevere for awhile.
Thank you so much for such an in-depth reply! And for the bullet points at the end, they were super informative. It’s good knowing the Hawaii thing wasn’t a career ended for the vast majority of people.
To answer your question’s sort of succinctly, I have a bachelors degree in English, and I would love to be a secondary teacher in English. Initially in school, I didn’t want to pursue education and wanted to go to law school, but recently had a change of heart after working in a law firm. I’m passionate about cultural exchange and things related to literature and language, so I felt IT was a great combination of both these interests of mine. Almost too good to be true!
With that said, my goal is really simple: to be a secondary school English teacher who is able to save a decent amount of my salary while working in an international school. I do have a few locations that I think would be really cool, but being so young and single, I really have no strong preference or anything at all with regards to location. I just want the opportunity to work in interesting places outside the US.
I’ve always viewed ESOL as more of a stepping stone rather than an end goal. If I don’t pursue International teaching at the end of the day, I’m not likely to stick with ESOL, I likely will pursue grad school or a career path back in the US.
I’m pretty new to teaching, in college I lead small classes with university aged Chinese students who needed help with their English skills. There was a special program on our campus I assisted with, and I quite enjoyed doing this.
I have enough saved up to pay the $6500 for TeachNow out of pocket, and I should be able to do my fieldwork at my hagwon.
Sorry this reply wasn't as organized as yours! The info about teach now at the end was really helpful once again :)
> A couple of essential questions:
>
> 1) What do you plan on teaching in IE? Are you going to stay with ESOL or
> is there another teaching area (specifically one tied to your academic
> preparation) you intend to pursue?
>
> 2) Whats your goal? Is it to transition to IE and stay a classroom IT, do
> you intend to migrate into leadership or a role that isnt classroom based
> (counselor, tech, library, coordinator, etc.), is it something else (owning
> your own tutoring or ESOL business), is it to get into the EU (or JP, or
> elsewhere) get citizenship (or at least PR) and do something else, move
> into tertiary (higher ed)?
>
> 3) Youre very new to edu, whats your feeling on the ESOL industry as a
> career? I ask because if the vocational (corporate) ESOL market is really
> what you want to do and you think a K12/KS teaching credential would help
> you, youre right, but there are faster and cheaper ways to get one than
> doing a more expensive and protracted process ITT/EPP program. I suppose
> its the age old question, why do you want to be a teacher?
>
> 4) Do you have any EDU background? Either academic preparation or
> experience in a classroom.
>
> 5) What resources can you pull together? Not just financially, theres a
> range of options from about USD$100 (ACSI) and Coursera (they have an ESOL
> certificate program) and programs in ESOL and then theres the more
> traditional Pro.Ed. options that start at a few hundred USD for asst
> pathways (MA) and about £3K for AO or a DELTA. Moving up to about twice
> that for a skills based US pathways and the entry cost of the cheapest UK
> PGCE(i) programs and other academic Masters programs in EDU and EDU
> adjacent degrees. Doctoral routes start at about 20K (non-International
> rate). In addition though what resources do you have access to in terms of
> completing fieldwork as part of the EPP/ITT program? Teach Now takes 12
> weeks which if for no other reason is a long time to be at an IS from 8-4
> (maybe 2 or 3) and then going to your Hagwon in the evenings (and maybe
> weekends) compared to Teach Ready which is 5 days and a lot easier to
> manage. Which is 5 days too many (and USD$6K too much) if all you need is a
> credential to check the legal box in IE for a few years.
>
> In very brief reply to your inquiries:
>
> A) Teach Now has issues but they can be circumstantial issues. The DC
> credential is still a professional grade credential.
>
> B) HI didnt go well for the most part. Those ITs either retained DC or were
> recommended for initial credentialing in DC so it wasnt career over for the
> vast majority of them. Many of them werent going to work in the US so they
> moved on (with a lot of bitterness) but they moved on.
>
> C) You cant apply for reciprocity with HI or for the vast majority of
> states right away (there are some exceptions such as TX, etc.). Many of
> them will require you to have prior KS/K12 experience post initial
> credential.
>
> D) DC (OSSE) isnt likely to get "fed up" with being the clearing
> house for OS credentialing in the US. Its possible, the big change was
> years ago and they seem rather content with their current state, but nobody
> has a crystal ball on these things. For that matter the current state of
> QTS (and iQTS) is likely to persevere for awhile.
Thank you so much for such an in-depth reply! And for the bullet points at the end, they were super informative. It’s good knowing the Hawaii thing wasn’t a career ended for the vast majority of people.
To answer your question’s sort of succinctly, I have a bachelors degree in English, and I would love to be a secondary teacher in English. Initially in school, I didn’t want to pursue education and wanted to go to law school, but recently had a change of heart after working in a law firm. I’m passionate about cultural exchange and things related to literature and language, so I felt IT was a great combination of both these interests of mine. Almost too good to be true!
With that said, my goal is really simple: to be a secondary school English teacher who is able to save a decent amount of my salary while working in an international school. I do have a few locations that I think would be really cool, but being so young and single, I really have no strong preference or anything at all with regards to location. I just want the opportunity to work in interesting places outside the US.
I’ve always viewed ESOL as more of a stepping stone rather than an end goal. If I don’t pursue International teaching at the end of the day, I’m not likely to stick with ESOL, I likely will pursue grad school or a career path back in the US.
I’m pretty new to teaching, in college I lead small classes with university aged Chinese students who needed help with their English skills. There was a special program on our campus I assisted with, and I quite enjoyed doing this.
I have enough saved up to pay the $6500 for TeachNow out of pocket, and I should be able to do my fieldwork at my hagwon.
Sorry this reply wasn't as organized as yours! The info about teach now at the end was really helpful once again :)
Reply
@Dc533333
First, how do you know you will "love" being a Literature IT? You thought you would love being an attorney but that didnt turn out the way you thought and being a Uni ESOL tutor is not the same or really anywhere close to being an IT in an academic classroom. For that matter being an ET in a hagwon/eikaiwa is closer but not close enough that anyone in IE will give you coin for it.
As to your inquiry:
THE GOOD
If this is the route you are sure is worth the investment than look at Teach Ready out of FL. Its essentially the same type of program (youd be shockingly surprised how alike they are) as Teach Now but doesnt have the same degree of issues and baggage that Teach Now has.
1) The field experience is shorter.
2) The credential you get is longer (5 years vs. 4 years)
3) The PD renewal options both allow repeated exams (though Teach Nows is the PRAXIS and requires one as opposed to two exams at a minimum).
4) A FL credential is likely to have better mobility than DCs. You probability of acceptance of the FL credential than the DC credential is likely to have fewer issues if applying for QTS (as an NQT/ECT) than DCs which is more likely to be denied.
5) The cost of either program is about the same.
6) The Teach Ready credits are more valuable as UWF is actually regionally accredited by SACS whereas Teach Nows Moreland Uni is only DEAC accredited. To that end UWF has a real campus whereas Moreland does not, and it may be easier to obfuscate whether your EPP/ITT program was delivered online or F2F. You cant do that with Moreland and you may be able to with UWF.
7) It avoids the stereotype that comes along with Teach Now and the DC credential. You will simply have fewer questions to answer and fewer problems. Once you have a few years of quality high performing experience no one will care and it wont matter so much if at all, but until then and if you do decide to transition the credential FL will be easier.
THE BAD
Skipping a lot of historical background the new shiny credential is iQTS, its usually offered (as part of the cohort of a small group of Unis and providers approved to offer iQTS) alongside the PGCEi (or its equivalent whatever the particular Uni is calling it). Its not a bad way to go, but its QTS that matters not the PGCEi, though many British leaders and recruiters have a strong preference for the traditional academic PGCE as part of an EPP/ITT program, thats the gold standard. If youre not going to do that though than how you get QTS matters less, as all the other avenues to get QTS tend to be grouped together in an albeit inferior group. It will cost you about the same as Teach Now or Teach Ready. Some of the factors include:
1) PGCE, including PGCEi programs are equivalent to about half of or a year of Masters level work, which you can usually apply to a Masters program offered by the Uni providing the PGCEi. This is far more coursework than Moreland or UWF will give you.
2) Most of the PGCEi programs are offered by unis with better status than Moreland and UWF. Nottingham may not be the greatest Uni but at least its fully accredited and has more recognition (and better marketability given the number of graduates in IE from it) than Moreland or UWF.
3) The QTS you get (currently) even as an ECT is a lifetime credential without PD requirements.
4) QTS has better recognition everywhere outside the US.
5) There are AO QTS programs that are about half (or more) the cost of a PGCEi and iQTS program.
The biggest issues are:
1) Induction. If you get dumped into the NQT/ECT pool, induction will be difficult to do and will likely be something your stuck with throughout your career compared.
2) iQTS is so new its status is still very tentative in the world of IE. The Dfe basically took a run around Parliment and just decreed iQTS can be recognized for the issuance of QTS. Thats all fine and well, even so far as inspectorates and BSOs go, but IE is its own creature and no ministry can make a BS really do anything, sure an inspectorate can hand down a report and BSOs can loose their organization affiliation but there are a LOT of BSs that are not BSOs and they dont have to listen to anyone. Moreover even if there was some mechanism of compulsion, its like anything in recruiting you can be not hired for any reason that is explained away by any number of generic difficult to prove against reasons, and if leaders and recruiters think iQTS is inbferior and they deem to treat it as such thats whats going to happen. The field of IE just doesnt know yet.
If this avenue is more to your preference than I would suggest looking at the Sunderland PGCEi program as its program has been accepted 9and they have an add-on module) that allows you to obtain HK Registered status (Professional grade credential). Which would go to some degree to alleviate whatever issues may arise with the iQTS pathway. You could always just fall back on the HK credential if need be.
THE UGLY
You seemed rather adverse to the idea, but Im going to mention again the MA Provisional (Entry grade) credential. Very simply you get to find out for pence rather than pounds your worth. Its a couple exams (two at a minimum) and they can be taken online (remotely) for ESOL, Literature, and the Comm. Literacy exam for a few hundred USD and an application fee (you dont even need to complete a separate CRB). You could very easily have the whole process done in a few months with credential in-hand and the MA provisional credential would be an effective lifetime credential. It checks the 'legal IT' box and gets to the how much are you worth, whats your marketability and utility as your career progresses. It lets you start that post credentialing experience clock sooner rather than later. If you go into a degree program it lets you enter an an actual professional edu and not a wannabe edu. In the world of ESOL it will have value (especially if you add an ESOL endorsement). The most significant demerits:
1) Its not transferable. It has zero recognition of any value.
2) It checks the legal box if an IS wants to check that box. It meets the definition for a professional, regular edu credential, but its an assessment pathway that tests to standards in content (not meds/peds/asst) but provides no preparation or training.
Lastly, this isnt a fork in the road where you must choose one path and be forever beholden to it and it alone. You can very well and easily choose the ugly option now and later decide whether to do one of the other (more resource and expense intensive) options at a later point.
First, how do you know you will "love" being a Literature IT? You thought you would love being an attorney but that didnt turn out the way you thought and being a Uni ESOL tutor is not the same or really anywhere close to being an IT in an academic classroom. For that matter being an ET in a hagwon/eikaiwa is closer but not close enough that anyone in IE will give you coin for it.
As to your inquiry:
THE GOOD
If this is the route you are sure is worth the investment than look at Teach Ready out of FL. Its essentially the same type of program (youd be shockingly surprised how alike they are) as Teach Now but doesnt have the same degree of issues and baggage that Teach Now has.
1) The field experience is shorter.
2) The credential you get is longer (5 years vs. 4 years)
3) The PD renewal options both allow repeated exams (though Teach Nows is the PRAXIS and requires one as opposed to two exams at a minimum).
4) A FL credential is likely to have better mobility than DCs. You probability of acceptance of the FL credential than the DC credential is likely to have fewer issues if applying for QTS (as an NQT/ECT) than DCs which is more likely to be denied.
5) The cost of either program is about the same.
6) The Teach Ready credits are more valuable as UWF is actually regionally accredited by SACS whereas Teach Nows Moreland Uni is only DEAC accredited. To that end UWF has a real campus whereas Moreland does not, and it may be easier to obfuscate whether your EPP/ITT program was delivered online or F2F. You cant do that with Moreland and you may be able to with UWF.
7) It avoids the stereotype that comes along with Teach Now and the DC credential. You will simply have fewer questions to answer and fewer problems. Once you have a few years of quality high performing experience no one will care and it wont matter so much if at all, but until then and if you do decide to transition the credential FL will be easier.
THE BAD
Skipping a lot of historical background the new shiny credential is iQTS, its usually offered (as part of the cohort of a small group of Unis and providers approved to offer iQTS) alongside the PGCEi (or its equivalent whatever the particular Uni is calling it). Its not a bad way to go, but its QTS that matters not the PGCEi, though many British leaders and recruiters have a strong preference for the traditional academic PGCE as part of an EPP/ITT program, thats the gold standard. If youre not going to do that though than how you get QTS matters less, as all the other avenues to get QTS tend to be grouped together in an albeit inferior group. It will cost you about the same as Teach Now or Teach Ready. Some of the factors include:
1) PGCE, including PGCEi programs are equivalent to about half of or a year of Masters level work, which you can usually apply to a Masters program offered by the Uni providing the PGCEi. This is far more coursework than Moreland or UWF will give you.
2) Most of the PGCEi programs are offered by unis with better status than Moreland and UWF. Nottingham may not be the greatest Uni but at least its fully accredited and has more recognition (and better marketability given the number of graduates in IE from it) than Moreland or UWF.
3) The QTS you get (currently) even as an ECT is a lifetime credential without PD requirements.
4) QTS has better recognition everywhere outside the US.
5) There are AO QTS programs that are about half (or more) the cost of a PGCEi and iQTS program.
The biggest issues are:
1) Induction. If you get dumped into the NQT/ECT pool, induction will be difficult to do and will likely be something your stuck with throughout your career compared.
2) iQTS is so new its status is still very tentative in the world of IE. The Dfe basically took a run around Parliment and just decreed iQTS can be recognized for the issuance of QTS. Thats all fine and well, even so far as inspectorates and BSOs go, but IE is its own creature and no ministry can make a BS really do anything, sure an inspectorate can hand down a report and BSOs can loose their organization affiliation but there are a LOT of BSs that are not BSOs and they dont have to listen to anyone. Moreover even if there was some mechanism of compulsion, its like anything in recruiting you can be not hired for any reason that is explained away by any number of generic difficult to prove against reasons, and if leaders and recruiters think iQTS is inbferior and they deem to treat it as such thats whats going to happen. The field of IE just doesnt know yet.
If this avenue is more to your preference than I would suggest looking at the Sunderland PGCEi program as its program has been accepted 9and they have an add-on module) that allows you to obtain HK Registered status (Professional grade credential). Which would go to some degree to alleviate whatever issues may arise with the iQTS pathway. You could always just fall back on the HK credential if need be.
THE UGLY
You seemed rather adverse to the idea, but Im going to mention again the MA Provisional (Entry grade) credential. Very simply you get to find out for pence rather than pounds your worth. Its a couple exams (two at a minimum) and they can be taken online (remotely) for ESOL, Literature, and the Comm. Literacy exam for a few hundred USD and an application fee (you dont even need to complete a separate CRB). You could very easily have the whole process done in a few months with credential in-hand and the MA provisional credential would be an effective lifetime credential. It checks the 'legal IT' box and gets to the how much are you worth, whats your marketability and utility as your career progresses. It lets you start that post credentialing experience clock sooner rather than later. If you go into a degree program it lets you enter an an actual professional edu and not a wannabe edu. In the world of ESOL it will have value (especially if you add an ESOL endorsement). The most significant demerits:
1) Its not transferable. It has zero recognition of any value.
2) It checks the legal box if an IS wants to check that box. It meets the definition for a professional, regular edu credential, but its an assessment pathway that tests to standards in content (not meds/peds/asst) but provides no preparation or training.
Lastly, this isnt a fork in the road where you must choose one path and be forever beholden to it and it alone. You can very well and easily choose the ugly option now and later decide whether to do one of the other (more resource and expense intensive) options at a later point.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Dc533333
>
> First, how do you know you will "love" being a Literature IT? You
> thought you would love being an attorney but that didnt turn out the way
> you thought and being a Uni ESOL tutor is not the same or really anywhere
> close to being an IT in an academic classroom. For that matter being an ET
> in a hagwon/eikaiwa is closer but not close enough that anyone in IE will
> give you coin for it.
>
> As to your inquiry:
>
> THE GOOD
>
> If this is the route you are sure is worth the investment than look at
> Teach Ready out of FL. Its essentially the same type of program (youd be
> shockingly surprised how alike they are) as Teach Now but doesnt have the
> same degree of issues and baggage that Teach Now has.
> 1) The field experience is shorter.
> 2) The credential you get is longer (5 years vs. 4 years)
> 3) The PD renewal options both allow repeated exams (though Teach Nows is
> the PRAXIS and requires one as opposed to two exams at a minimum).
> 4) A FL credential is likely to have better mobility than DCs. You
> probability of acceptance of the FL credential than the DC credential is
> likely to have fewer issues if applying for QTS (as an NQT/ECT) than DCs
> which is more likely to be denied.
> 5) The cost of either program is about the same.
> 6) The Teach Ready credits are more valuable as UWF is actually regionally
> accredited by SACS whereas Teach Nows Moreland Uni is only DEAC accredited.
> To that end UWF has a real campus whereas Moreland does not, and it may be
> easier to obfuscate whether your EPP/ITT program was delivered online or
> F2F. You cant do that with Moreland and you may be able to with UWF.
> 7) It avoids the stereotype that comes along with Teach Now and the DC
> credential. You will simply have fewer questions to answer and fewer
> problems. Once you have a few years of quality high performing experience
> no one will care and it wont matter so much if at all, but until then and
> if you do decide to transition the credential FL will be easier.
>
> THE BAD
>
> Skipping a lot of historical background the new shiny credential is iQTS,
> its usually offered (as part of the cohort of a small group of Unis and
> providers approved to offer iQTS) alongside the PGCEi (or its equivalent
> whatever the particular Uni is calling it). Its not a bad way to go, but
> its QTS that matters not the PGCEi, though many British leaders and
> recruiters have a strong preference for the traditional academic PGCE as
> part of an EPP/ITT program, thats the gold standard. If youre not going to
> do that though than how you get QTS matters less, as all the other avenues
> to get QTS tend to be grouped together in an albeit inferior group. It will
> cost you about the same as Teach Now or Teach Ready. Some of the factors
> include:
> 1) PGCE, including PGCEi programs are equivalent to about half of or a year
> of Masters level work, which you can usually apply to a Masters program
> offered by the Uni providing the PGCEi. This is far more coursework than
> Moreland or UWF will give you.
> 2) Most of the PGCEi programs are offered by unis with better status than
> Moreland and UWF. Nottingham may not be the greatest Uni but at least its
> fully accredited and has more recognition (and better marketability given
> the number of graduates in IE from it) than Moreland or UWF.
> 3) The QTS you get (currently) even as an ECT is a lifetime credential
> without PD requirements.
> 4) QTS has better recognition everywhere outside the US.
> 5) There are AO QTS programs that are about half (or more) the cost of a
> PGCEi and iQTS program.
>
> The biggest issues are:
> 1) Induction. If you get dumped into the NQT/ECT pool, induction will be
> difficult to do and will likely be something your stuck with throughout
> your career compared.
> 2) iQTS is so new its status is still very tentative in the world of IE.
> The Dfe basically took a run around Parliment and just decreed iQTS can be
> recognized for the issuance of QTS. Thats all fine and well, even so far as
> inspectorates and BSOs go, but IE is its own creature and no ministry can
> make a BS really do anything, sure an inspectorate can hand down a report
> and BSOs can loose their organization affiliation but there are a LOT of
> BSs that are not BSOs and they dont have to listen to anyone. Moreover even
> if there was some mechanism of compulsion, its like anything in recruiting
> you can be not hired for any reason that is explained away by any number of
> generic difficult to prove against reasons, and if leaders and recruiters
> think iQTS is inbferior and they deem to treat it as such thats whats going
> to happen. The field of IE just doesnt know yet.
>
> If this avenue is more to your preference than I would suggest looking at
> the Sunderland PGCEi program as its program has been accepted 9and they
> have an add-on module) that allows you to obtain HK Registered status
> (Professional grade credential). Which would go to some degree to alleviate
> whatever issues may arise with the iQTS pathway. You could always just fall
> back on the HK credential if need be.
>
> THE UGLY
>
> You seemed rather adverse to the idea, but Im going to mention again the MA
> Provisional (Entry grade) credential. Very simply you get to find out for
> pence rather than pounds your worth. Its a couple exams (two at a minimum)
> and they can be taken online (remotely) for ESOL, Literature, and the Comm.
> Literacy exam for a few hundred USD and an application fee (you dont even
> need to complete a separate CRB). You could very easily have the whole
> process done in a few months with credential in-hand and the MA provisional
> credential would be an effective lifetime credential. It checks the 'legal
> IT' box and gets to the how much are you worth, whats your marketability
> and utility as your career progresses. It lets you start that post
> credentialing experience clock sooner rather than later. If you go into a
> degree program it lets you enter an an actual professional edu and not a
> wannabe edu. In the world of ESOL it will have value (especially if you add
> an ESOL endorsement). The most significant demerits:
> 1) Its not transferable. It has zero recognition of any value.
> 2) It checks the legal box if an IS wants to check that box. It meets the
> definition for a professional, regular edu credential, but its an
> assessment pathway that tests to standards in content (not meds/peds/asst)
> but provides no preparation or training.
>
> Lastly, this isnt a fork in the road where you must choose one path and be
> forever beholden to it and it alone. You can very well and easily choose
> the ugly option now and later decide whether to do one of the other (more
> resource and expense intensive) options at a later point.
Hey! Sorry it’s been a while since I logged into this account, and I have made some updates to my plans.
I reached out to a few professors and actually got letters of recommendation for one year Master of Arts in Teaching programs, they are masters programs that provide initial licensure. I think I’m going to try and get two years of experience stateside before plunging into IT. I actually have an interview tomorrow for a rather cheap program ($13,000 USD), so I’m really hoping I get in!
I decided to go this route because I think long term it will add more legitimacy to my career, and will provide me more traditional training in education. I will have to travel back to the US, and will have some startup costs associated, but overall I think I should be fine :)
> @Dc533333
>
> First, how do you know you will "love" being a Literature IT? You
> thought you would love being an attorney but that didnt turn out the way
> you thought and being a Uni ESOL tutor is not the same or really anywhere
> close to being an IT in an academic classroom. For that matter being an ET
> in a hagwon/eikaiwa is closer but not close enough that anyone in IE will
> give you coin for it.
>
> As to your inquiry:
>
> THE GOOD
>
> If this is the route you are sure is worth the investment than look at
> Teach Ready out of FL. Its essentially the same type of program (youd be
> shockingly surprised how alike they are) as Teach Now but doesnt have the
> same degree of issues and baggage that Teach Now has.
> 1) The field experience is shorter.
> 2) The credential you get is longer (5 years vs. 4 years)
> 3) The PD renewal options both allow repeated exams (though Teach Nows is
> the PRAXIS and requires one as opposed to two exams at a minimum).
> 4) A FL credential is likely to have better mobility than DCs. You
> probability of acceptance of the FL credential than the DC credential is
> likely to have fewer issues if applying for QTS (as an NQT/ECT) than DCs
> which is more likely to be denied.
> 5) The cost of either program is about the same.
> 6) The Teach Ready credits are more valuable as UWF is actually regionally
> accredited by SACS whereas Teach Nows Moreland Uni is only DEAC accredited.
> To that end UWF has a real campus whereas Moreland does not, and it may be
> easier to obfuscate whether your EPP/ITT program was delivered online or
> F2F. You cant do that with Moreland and you may be able to with UWF.
> 7) It avoids the stereotype that comes along with Teach Now and the DC
> credential. You will simply have fewer questions to answer and fewer
> problems. Once you have a few years of quality high performing experience
> no one will care and it wont matter so much if at all, but until then and
> if you do decide to transition the credential FL will be easier.
>
> THE BAD
>
> Skipping a lot of historical background the new shiny credential is iQTS,
> its usually offered (as part of the cohort of a small group of Unis and
> providers approved to offer iQTS) alongside the PGCEi (or its equivalent
> whatever the particular Uni is calling it). Its not a bad way to go, but
> its QTS that matters not the PGCEi, though many British leaders and
> recruiters have a strong preference for the traditional academic PGCE as
> part of an EPP/ITT program, thats the gold standard. If youre not going to
> do that though than how you get QTS matters less, as all the other avenues
> to get QTS tend to be grouped together in an albeit inferior group. It will
> cost you about the same as Teach Now or Teach Ready. Some of the factors
> include:
> 1) PGCE, including PGCEi programs are equivalent to about half of or a year
> of Masters level work, which you can usually apply to a Masters program
> offered by the Uni providing the PGCEi. This is far more coursework than
> Moreland or UWF will give you.
> 2) Most of the PGCEi programs are offered by unis with better status than
> Moreland and UWF. Nottingham may not be the greatest Uni but at least its
> fully accredited and has more recognition (and better marketability given
> the number of graduates in IE from it) than Moreland or UWF.
> 3) The QTS you get (currently) even as an ECT is a lifetime credential
> without PD requirements.
> 4) QTS has better recognition everywhere outside the US.
> 5) There are AO QTS programs that are about half (or more) the cost of a
> PGCEi and iQTS program.
>
> The biggest issues are:
> 1) Induction. If you get dumped into the NQT/ECT pool, induction will be
> difficult to do and will likely be something your stuck with throughout
> your career compared.
> 2) iQTS is so new its status is still very tentative in the world of IE.
> The Dfe basically took a run around Parliment and just decreed iQTS can be
> recognized for the issuance of QTS. Thats all fine and well, even so far as
> inspectorates and BSOs go, but IE is its own creature and no ministry can
> make a BS really do anything, sure an inspectorate can hand down a report
> and BSOs can loose their organization affiliation but there are a LOT of
> BSs that are not BSOs and they dont have to listen to anyone. Moreover even
> if there was some mechanism of compulsion, its like anything in recruiting
> you can be not hired for any reason that is explained away by any number of
> generic difficult to prove against reasons, and if leaders and recruiters
> think iQTS is inbferior and they deem to treat it as such thats whats going
> to happen. The field of IE just doesnt know yet.
>
> If this avenue is more to your preference than I would suggest looking at
> the Sunderland PGCEi program as its program has been accepted 9and they
> have an add-on module) that allows you to obtain HK Registered status
> (Professional grade credential). Which would go to some degree to alleviate
> whatever issues may arise with the iQTS pathway. You could always just fall
> back on the HK credential if need be.
>
> THE UGLY
>
> You seemed rather adverse to the idea, but Im going to mention again the MA
> Provisional (Entry grade) credential. Very simply you get to find out for
> pence rather than pounds your worth. Its a couple exams (two at a minimum)
> and they can be taken online (remotely) for ESOL, Literature, and the Comm.
> Literacy exam for a few hundred USD and an application fee (you dont even
> need to complete a separate CRB). You could very easily have the whole
> process done in a few months with credential in-hand and the MA provisional
> credential would be an effective lifetime credential. It checks the 'legal
> IT' box and gets to the how much are you worth, whats your marketability
> and utility as your career progresses. It lets you start that post
> credentialing experience clock sooner rather than later. If you go into a
> degree program it lets you enter an an actual professional edu and not a
> wannabe edu. In the world of ESOL it will have value (especially if you add
> an ESOL endorsement). The most significant demerits:
> 1) Its not transferable. It has zero recognition of any value.
> 2) It checks the legal box if an IS wants to check that box. It meets the
> definition for a professional, regular edu credential, but its an
> assessment pathway that tests to standards in content (not meds/peds/asst)
> but provides no preparation or training.
>
> Lastly, this isnt a fork in the road where you must choose one path and be
> forever beholden to it and it alone. You can very well and easily choose
> the ugly option now and later decide whether to do one of the other (more
> resource and expense intensive) options at a later point.
Hey! Sorry it’s been a while since I logged into this account, and I have made some updates to my plans.
I reached out to a few professors and actually got letters of recommendation for one year Master of Arts in Teaching programs, they are masters programs that provide initial licensure. I think I’m going to try and get two years of experience stateside before plunging into IT. I actually have an interview tomorrow for a rather cheap program ($13,000 USD), so I’m really hoping I get in!
I decided to go this route because I think long term it will add more legitimacy to my career, and will provide me more traditional training in education. I will have to travel back to the US, and will have some startup costs associated, but overall I think I should be fine :)
Reply
@Dc533333
I would advise against it.
There are two facets of an ITs utility: What they can do (qualifications, degrees, certificates, credentials, etc.) and what they have done (experience, scores, special skills, etc.). Of those, experience is king. Here are the problems with your plan:
1) Youre initial credential is only going to license you in a specific state and you wont be able to move it to a lot of other states in the beginning. Meaning your limited and dependent on jobs for those two years of experience to essentially one state.
2) Literature is a very saturated DT pool in most US locations. You could very easily find yourself applying for jobs year after year and waiting forever for an actual appointment. You also may end up with an Entry grade rather than Professional grade credential depending on the State.
3) As a first year Literature DT the DSs that will eventually get around to hiring you are not going to be pleasant places. You will certainly make your bones if you can survive, but theres a reason why theres a very high attrition rate for US DTs.
4) Youre going to price yourself out of an IE job. Youre going to be paper heavy and experience lite. You essentially have done little but now an IS has to pay for an Entry class IT at Masters coin when there are cheaper ITs who are just as qualified and credentialed but are cheaper.
5) USD$13K is not very reasonable (though it could be worse). You could do an online credentialing program and an online Masters for less than USD$13K and still be able to work at the same time. Moreover if you do something like the MA Provisional route you could even pursue an internship in IE or at least do your field work in a better IS.
6) While the US sounds like it makes the most sense, youre a broader candidate if you study in a region that isnt the same as your own. Youre an American so everyone assumes you know the US edu system. Study a PGCE/QTS or registration in UK, CAN, AUS, etc. and it gives you a broader range of academic background. Study in a UK ITT program for example, and you can make a convincing case that you know the UK system as well as the US system. Aside from QTS, those systems are harder to transfer into than it is to transfer into the US with an outside credential.
I would advise against it.
There are two facets of an ITs utility: What they can do (qualifications, degrees, certificates, credentials, etc.) and what they have done (experience, scores, special skills, etc.). Of those, experience is king. Here are the problems with your plan:
1) Youre initial credential is only going to license you in a specific state and you wont be able to move it to a lot of other states in the beginning. Meaning your limited and dependent on jobs for those two years of experience to essentially one state.
2) Literature is a very saturated DT pool in most US locations. You could very easily find yourself applying for jobs year after year and waiting forever for an actual appointment. You also may end up with an Entry grade rather than Professional grade credential depending on the State.
3) As a first year Literature DT the DSs that will eventually get around to hiring you are not going to be pleasant places. You will certainly make your bones if you can survive, but theres a reason why theres a very high attrition rate for US DTs.
4) Youre going to price yourself out of an IE job. Youre going to be paper heavy and experience lite. You essentially have done little but now an IS has to pay for an Entry class IT at Masters coin when there are cheaper ITs who are just as qualified and credentialed but are cheaper.
5) USD$13K is not very reasonable (though it could be worse). You could do an online credentialing program and an online Masters for less than USD$13K and still be able to work at the same time. Moreover if you do something like the MA Provisional route you could even pursue an internship in IE or at least do your field work in a better IS.
6) While the US sounds like it makes the most sense, youre a broader candidate if you study in a region that isnt the same as your own. Youre an American so everyone assumes you know the US edu system. Study a PGCE/QTS or registration in UK, CAN, AUS, etc. and it gives you a broader range of academic background. Study in a UK ITT program for example, and you can make a convincing case that you know the UK system as well as the US system. Aside from QTS, those systems are harder to transfer into than it is to transfer into the US with an outside credential.