If you are involved in recruitment, approximately how many applications do you receive for a position?
Specifically, how many for an IB English position? And how many of those applications are from viable candidates?
I have 10 years of experience with IB DP and am looking to move on, but haven't received any response to the 5 positions I've applied for so far. I've been at my current international school for 5 years, and my previous international for 5 years, with 2 years before that in the UK.
I'm assuming Europe is the most competitive region? What about Saudi?
I've applied to three posts in Europe and two in Saudi. I've been using the TES, but perhaps should sign up for SEARCH as well?
How many applications do you receive for a position?
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coughingfurballs
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am
Re: How many applications do you receive for a position?
Are you looking for details of now or later in the employment window?
If it's for now (employing for July 2024) - then almost no schools will be deep into their recruitment process. This is especially true for positions such as English or I & S which have a large number of teachers looking for positions. HL Math or Physics is another story though.
This is not directly relevant for you this year - but can give you a snapshot of the different amount of people applying. I was interviewing for a Science job at one of the minor Search Associate fairs early in the window. It was a high quality school which also wanted to interview at Bangkok, London and Cambridge. They told me that they had over 110 people apply for an I & S position but only 8 for the Science position I applied for. That was a couple of years ago prior to covid.
If it's for now (employing for July 2024) - then almost no schools will be deep into their recruitment process. This is especially true for positions such as English or I & S which have a large number of teachers looking for positions. HL Math or Physics is another story though.
This is not directly relevant for you this year - but can give you a snapshot of the different amount of people applying. I was interviewing for a Science job at one of the minor Search Associate fairs early in the window. It was a high quality school which also wanted to interview at Bangkok, London and Cambridge. They told me that they had over 110 people apply for an I & S position but only 8 for the Science position I applied for. That was a couple of years ago prior to covid.
Response
Its still early in the upcoming recruiting season. Early recruiting starts the end of October, prime recruiting starts in Early January and finishes in mid February, when late recruiting starts until the Spring push in May with the Summer shuffle in Early July.
Elite tier ISs in highly desirable regions can get a thousand plus applications for a single vacancy.
There are typically, in very broad general terms about 10x more applications for arts and humanities vacancies than there are for STEM vacancies.
The WE is absolutely among the most competitive regions in IE, which also include other EU regions, the NE, and parts of Asia such as JP and HK.
The Kingdom as well as the rest of the ME is one of the most difficult places for ISs to recruit for with a couple exceptions.
Many British ITs have commented in recent time that with Brexit they have found it much more difficult to secure interest from EU ISs and recruiters.
SA isnt going to help you much with the WE or EU. The ME including The Kingdom, yes, but I dont think you need SA to get a job in the Kingdom. TES should easily accommodate you, you just have to wait.If your going to attend a RE/Fair SA can provide a strong benefit, again especially in the ME. Without an EU passport though the WE and EU ISs that are actually recruiting and that will be in attendance at even BKK will be small and with a small number of vacancies. The lines can be absolutely depressing and without an EU passport you are just not going to be in the priority pile regardless of your experience or resume.
If youre truly set on working in the WE/EU and your flexible about the tier of IS, than just go to where you want to work in the Spring and teach ESOL online and keep open to lower tier ISs and independent/private DSs that are off circuit.
Elite tier ISs in highly desirable regions can get a thousand plus applications for a single vacancy.
There are typically, in very broad general terms about 10x more applications for arts and humanities vacancies than there are for STEM vacancies.
The WE is absolutely among the most competitive regions in IE, which also include other EU regions, the NE, and parts of Asia such as JP and HK.
The Kingdom as well as the rest of the ME is one of the most difficult places for ISs to recruit for with a couple exceptions.
Many British ITs have commented in recent time that with Brexit they have found it much more difficult to secure interest from EU ISs and recruiters.
SA isnt going to help you much with the WE or EU. The ME including The Kingdom, yes, but I dont think you need SA to get a job in the Kingdom. TES should easily accommodate you, you just have to wait.If your going to attend a RE/Fair SA can provide a strong benefit, again especially in the ME. Without an EU passport though the WE and EU ISs that are actually recruiting and that will be in attendance at even BKK will be small and with a small number of vacancies. The lines can be absolutely depressing and without an EU passport you are just not going to be in the priority pile regardless of your experience or resume.
If youre truly set on working in the WE/EU and your flexible about the tier of IS, than just go to where you want to work in the Spring and teach ESOL online and keep open to lower tier ISs and independent/private DSs that are off circuit.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: How many applications do you receive for a position?
Let me copy-paste what I saw posted about this by a former admin, representing "five former and current administrators with admin experience in Asia, Africa, and South America in what would be considered Good-to-Great schools" (think tier 1, top tier 2):
"IBDP maths applicants - direct and through agencies would have been 200 plus. IB Lan/Lit 300 plus (double that for the most highly regarded schools).
Hardest to fill? Each year was different; certified and experienced special education teachers can be hard to find. Experienced program coordinators can be difficult- you get lots of applicants but the timing has to be right to get the very best ones. Often they are snapped up through connections, which makes it hard when 3-4 schools are targeting the same type of person.
The talk that science positions are hard to fill is often a myth. One of our collective has had over 80 applicants for a chemistry job posted last week- of those at least 20 would get through the first pass re qualifications, experience and results."
"IBDP maths applicants - direct and through agencies would have been 200 plus. IB Lan/Lit 300 plus (double that for the most highly regarded schools).
Hardest to fill? Each year was different; certified and experienced special education teachers can be hard to find. Experienced program coordinators can be difficult- you get lots of applicants but the timing has to be right to get the very best ones. Often they are snapped up through connections, which makes it hard when 3-4 schools are targeting the same type of person.
The talk that science positions are hard to fill is often a myth. One of our collective has had over 80 applicants for a chemistry job posted last week- of those at least 20 would get through the first pass re qualifications, experience and results."
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coughingfurballs
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am
Re: How many applications do you receive for a position?
Psyguy, I didn't mean that I thought Saudi would be a stepping stone to Europe. I actually spent part of my childhood on the Aramco compound and like Saudi a lot. But I want to work in a reputable school there, either the American or British schools in Riyadh or Jeddah.
Europe is my other ideal location. Do you really think I should resign from my current job at a tier 2 IS to go teach ESL online in Europe to maximise my chances there? I was always advised that it is easier to get a job when you have a job. Also, my first IS job was in Europe. It paid very little, which is why I left. I was hoping for something in central or eastern Europe this time.
Europe is my other ideal location. Do you really think I should resign from my current job at a tier 2 IS to go teach ESL online in Europe to maximise my chances there? I was always advised that it is easier to get a job when you have a job. Also, my first IS job was in Europe. It paid very little, which is why I left. I was hoping for something in central or eastern Europe this time.
Reply
@coughingfurballs
I didnt intend to imply using the Kingdom as a stepping stone to Europe.
The Kingdom has a very small small small small small pool of reputable ISs (which doesnt mean good, just not horrible train wreck ISs).
EE is a different creature than the WE or the rest of the EU. Its still early in recruiting and those ISs with vacancies will begin recruiting for them in due time.
There are 3 tracks in IE in regards to IE recruiting. You have inside circuit, outside circuit and off circuit.
1) Inside Circuit: Is really small. Its the ITs that arent recruiting but are open to opportunity, they are putting out feelers to leaders in other ISs that are also putting out feelers. When their little feelers merge and find themselves mutually aligned then changes happen, sometimes. Its essentially what GRC formalized but then got to big and then moved closer to outside track recruiting.
2) Outside Circuit: Is what is generally regarded as the recruiting cycle in IE. Its the accumulation of premium agencies, the recruiting services, job boards, as well as the traditional application process and fairs/REs that are aggregated into 'recruiting'.
3) Off Circuit: Is everything in DE from public/maintained to private/independent DSs that may look like IE. These are local DSs that are open to hiring foreigners. Generally they are LH hire positions as opposed to OSH positions. In many WE and EU ISs the OSH package is much more similar to a LH package anyway, which makes on circuit and off circuit ISs and DSs more comparable.
Its those off circuit DSs/ISs what Im referring to. To recruit for those positions though you have to be local. They dont advertise using IE agencies or job services very often if at all. Youre only going to find them on the DSs/ISs website and on a local (maybe regional) jobs board. Some of them may do an interview online, some will want to have a F2F interview in person. A driving force of these positions is availability, they need the IT to start comparatively soon compared to the processing time in on circuit recruiting. What makes those positions feasible and more marketable to ITs is being there. Thats what you need to be.
I dont think you should resign your position. You can keep your position and be in those locations your interested in during the summer holiday and keep your eyes and ears open and possibly make some moves if an opportunity presents itself. Off circuit DSs/ISs really dont care about what on circuit ISs think or that they are poaching you from an IS somewhere. They dont care, they need an edu in the classroom and they dont move in those on circuit circles of ISs. If nothing happens you count it as a working holiday and go back to your IS no one in leadership the wiser.
It is easier to get a position when youre already in a position. You can do anything in IE for a year without damage to your marketability. That makes it risky but its no different than the risk you take in on circuit recruiting. You will want to give your current IS notice in the early parts of Fall (if youre not going rogue) so that when your at a fair or talking to an IS you have a reference. The common position though is that youve surrendered your position at your current IS not for a position in another IS but ONLY the opportunity to purse other positions. You might not find one or may end up having to take something worse or more of a hardship. Neither strategy is without out risks and the risks are substantial in both cases.
EE off circuit DSs/ISs generally dont comp well. There are some exceptions, but salary tends to be around €2500 (between €2000-€3000). You may get a flight in for yourself and whatever social insurance scheme is available. They are very LH in respects to comp.
I didnt intend to imply using the Kingdom as a stepping stone to Europe.
The Kingdom has a very small small small small small pool of reputable ISs (which doesnt mean good, just not horrible train wreck ISs).
EE is a different creature than the WE or the rest of the EU. Its still early in recruiting and those ISs with vacancies will begin recruiting for them in due time.
There are 3 tracks in IE in regards to IE recruiting. You have inside circuit, outside circuit and off circuit.
1) Inside Circuit: Is really small. Its the ITs that arent recruiting but are open to opportunity, they are putting out feelers to leaders in other ISs that are also putting out feelers. When their little feelers merge and find themselves mutually aligned then changes happen, sometimes. Its essentially what GRC formalized but then got to big and then moved closer to outside track recruiting.
2) Outside Circuit: Is what is generally regarded as the recruiting cycle in IE. Its the accumulation of premium agencies, the recruiting services, job boards, as well as the traditional application process and fairs/REs that are aggregated into 'recruiting'.
3) Off Circuit: Is everything in DE from public/maintained to private/independent DSs that may look like IE. These are local DSs that are open to hiring foreigners. Generally they are LH hire positions as opposed to OSH positions. In many WE and EU ISs the OSH package is much more similar to a LH package anyway, which makes on circuit and off circuit ISs and DSs more comparable.
Its those off circuit DSs/ISs what Im referring to. To recruit for those positions though you have to be local. They dont advertise using IE agencies or job services very often if at all. Youre only going to find them on the DSs/ISs website and on a local (maybe regional) jobs board. Some of them may do an interview online, some will want to have a F2F interview in person. A driving force of these positions is availability, they need the IT to start comparatively soon compared to the processing time in on circuit recruiting. What makes those positions feasible and more marketable to ITs is being there. Thats what you need to be.
I dont think you should resign your position. You can keep your position and be in those locations your interested in during the summer holiday and keep your eyes and ears open and possibly make some moves if an opportunity presents itself. Off circuit DSs/ISs really dont care about what on circuit ISs think or that they are poaching you from an IS somewhere. They dont care, they need an edu in the classroom and they dont move in those on circuit circles of ISs. If nothing happens you count it as a working holiday and go back to your IS no one in leadership the wiser.
It is easier to get a position when youre already in a position. You can do anything in IE for a year without damage to your marketability. That makes it risky but its no different than the risk you take in on circuit recruiting. You will want to give your current IS notice in the early parts of Fall (if youre not going rogue) so that when your at a fair or talking to an IS you have a reference. The common position though is that youve surrendered your position at your current IS not for a position in another IS but ONLY the opportunity to purse other positions. You might not find one or may end up having to take something worse or more of a hardship. Neither strategy is without out risks and the risks are substantial in both cases.
EE off circuit DSs/ISs generally dont comp well. There are some exceptions, but salary tends to be around €2500 (between €2000-€3000). You may get a flight in for yourself and whatever social insurance scheme is available. They are very LH in respects to comp.