Background about me: Licensed math teacher from the US with 7 years of teaching experience (3 domestic, 4 in China), 3 years teaching AP courses. Although I'm licensed my undergrad degree has nothing to do with Education nor Math. I am currently enrolled in Harvard Cert. of School Management and Leadership. Single, no dependents. Looking to stay in China for a while based on the current job market, but not completely opposed to other options.
I've taught at a proper (Tier 2.5-ish) international school in China, but am currently working in a bilingual school which pays better than the international school I worked at but is not a better school in any other sense (the package is of course substantially lower than the Tier 1s here). I chose to work here precisely because I wanted to be somewhere that still pays reasonably but has a workload that allows me to pursue a Masters. I would like to move into administration eventually, but am not in a rush to do so.
My first consideration is Portsmouth's MSc in Educational Leadership and Management. My second is Sunderland's MA in International Education. They both take 2 years through distance learning and are about the same cost. The Portsmouth degree is obviously more aligned with a track to administration. I think the Sunderland degree would have more utility towards getting a teaching job at a Tier 1 or fringe-Tier 1 school in China. I think on balance, I would be better off getting experience teaching at a Tier 1, but the calculus of everything isn't that clear to me.
What do you think about these options? Which do you think is better for someone in my situation?
Addendum: I've seen Oxford MSc in Teaching and Learning touted on this forum. The problem is, even though much of the program can be done through distance learning, they have required in-person seminars on Sept. 30, Nov. 25, Jan. 20, March 2, and June 15. I don't know how that schedule is workable for anyone outside the UK. But if anyone has more insight into this option, I'd also be interested in hearing about that.
Masters Advice
Response
I am sure you have read in other topics then that unless a Uni is a global ivy than a Masters is a Masters. Despite what the Uni world of ratings and rankings would have you believe, for the purposes of IE neither Portsmouth nor Sunderland is of any tangible benefit over the other (unless the leader your interviewing with is an alum). In this case the program matters more and a Ed.Ld degree has better utility for leadership than a C&I degree (most ISs and recruiters wont read past the title, even if you take some supplementary studies). The Harvard CSML certificate is impressive but its less than a Masters.
Of the two Portsmouth is the stronger candidate for future leadership.
Tier 1 experience would be very beneficial, it has stronger utility and marketability than a degree from Sunderland (or Portsmouth), neither program is going to add anything to an application into a Tier 1 IS other than having a Masters.
The Oxford Masters is very doable from many locations in the WE. All of the seminar dates are on Saturdays, you fly out on Friday and fly back Saturday evening or Sunday morning. For China youd have to take a day off for a long weekend. Fly out of Shanghai late Thursday evening arrive in London on Friday mid day and take either bus or train to Oxford, check in to your accommodations and check out the next morning on your way to the seminar. At the end of the seminar head back to London and fly out that evening back to Shanghai which arrives late morning on Sunday. If your IS is willing to give you PD or comp time or grant the absence its only 5 days in the year but very doable. It does add about £6K to the cost of the program. The benefits however would be substantial though, a leadership certificate from Harvard and a Masters from Oxford, thats a resume that gets looked at. There are tier 3 ISs that would give you the keys just on that alone. Thats a HOS profile an IS can sell to parents.
Of the two Portsmouth is the stronger candidate for future leadership.
Tier 1 experience would be very beneficial, it has stronger utility and marketability than a degree from Sunderland (or Portsmouth), neither program is going to add anything to an application into a Tier 1 IS other than having a Masters.
The Oxford Masters is very doable from many locations in the WE. All of the seminar dates are on Saturdays, you fly out on Friday and fly back Saturday evening or Sunday morning. For China youd have to take a day off for a long weekend. Fly out of Shanghai late Thursday evening arrive in London on Friday mid day and take either bus or train to Oxford, check in to your accommodations and check out the next morning on your way to the seminar. At the end of the seminar head back to London and fly out that evening back to Shanghai which arrives late morning on Sunday. If your IS is willing to give you PD or comp time or grant the absence its only 5 days in the year but very doable. It does add about £6K to the cost of the program. The benefits however would be substantial though, a leadership certificate from Harvard and a Masters from Oxford, thats a resume that gets looked at. There are tier 3 ISs that would give you the keys just on that alone. Thats a HOS profile an IS can sell to parents.
Re: Masters Advice
Thanks for the reply PsyGuy. Regarding the Portsmouth option, wouldn't it raise any eyebrows that my education and work experience is entirely from the US + US-aligned international schools, and the Masters would be from a British institution?
Re: Masters Advice
Too late to edit my reply, but:
Another option I've been looking at recently is the American College of Education M.Ed. in Educational Leadership. About the same cost as Portsmouth MSc and is approved for principal licensure in a handful of states. Slightly shorter completion time as well (17.5 months vs 2 years with Portsmouth). Even if a Masters is a Masters outside of the Iveys, this *seems* like it would make more sense from a CV narrative standpoint with my background. I still need to take a closer look at the course listing though.
Another option I've been looking at recently is the American College of Education M.Ed. in Educational Leadership. About the same cost as Portsmouth MSc and is approved for principal licensure in a handful of states. Slightly shorter completion time as well (17.5 months vs 2 years with Portsmouth). Even if a Masters is a Masters outside of the Iveys, this *seems* like it would make more sense from a CV narrative standpoint with my background. I still need to take a closer look at the course listing though.
Reply
@Bayesic
No, why would it, Portsmouth isnt a diploma mill. It would provide you a basis for understanding the UK NC and cross system meds/peds/asst tends to have utility in IE.
Yes, but you are eligible for the DC Admin credential. You have the 4 years experience, all you need is to take the SLLA exam and have a Masters.
They are actually about the same amount of contact time. The difference in values has more to do with the calculation of breaks/holidays and end of term. You may also want to consider that a two year degree will have fewer issues than a degree thats less than two years, especially coming from an online only Uni.
You have two primary issues with ACE:
1) Its an exclusively online Uni. There are ISs and Ministries that wont accept online degrees. While this would apply to online programs at brick and mortar Unis as well, its easier to obfuscate. There is also a not insignificant number of individuals and entities that feel online Uni degrees are inferior and some who consider them a diploma mill.
2) The ACE Ed.Ld program requires a field experience (internship, etc.) requiring you to have an IS thats willing to give you some form of leadership role to complete. With the Portsmouth, etc. programs its a thesis or capstone that doesnt require external accommodation or cooperation. Thesis degrees have stronger value if you ever consider a research doctorate or a conventional doctorate with a dissertation requirement.
If youre considering ACE you may as well look at UPe which at USD$4K is half the cost of the alternatives and you could finish in a year.
No, why would it, Portsmouth isnt a diploma mill. It would provide you a basis for understanding the UK NC and cross system meds/peds/asst tends to have utility in IE.
Yes, but you are eligible for the DC Admin credential. You have the 4 years experience, all you need is to take the SLLA exam and have a Masters.
They are actually about the same amount of contact time. The difference in values has more to do with the calculation of breaks/holidays and end of term. You may also want to consider that a two year degree will have fewer issues than a degree thats less than two years, especially coming from an online only Uni.
You have two primary issues with ACE:
1) Its an exclusively online Uni. There are ISs and Ministries that wont accept online degrees. While this would apply to online programs at brick and mortar Unis as well, its easier to obfuscate. There is also a not insignificant number of individuals and entities that feel online Uni degrees are inferior and some who consider them a diploma mill.
2) The ACE Ed.Ld program requires a field experience (internship, etc.) requiring you to have an IS thats willing to give you some form of leadership role to complete. With the Portsmouth, etc. programs its a thesis or capstone that doesnt require external accommodation or cooperation. Thesis degrees have stronger value if you ever consider a research doctorate or a conventional doctorate with a dissertation requirement.
If youre considering ACE you may as well look at UPe which at USD$4K is half the cost of the alternatives and you could finish in a year.
Re: Masters Advice
Most of your points are well-taken, but regarding UPe vs. ACE, I believe ACE is regionally accredited while UPe is not, I think that's a noteworthy difference no?
About 'obfuscating' online degrees...won't any school/government that has a policy about online degrees check the transcripts, which would identify them as online classes anyway regardless of what the diploma says and whether or not there's a brick and mortar uni? I mean the timeline of my Masters will overlap with my working period in China, I think most people will assume it's done online just based on that.
About 'obfuscating' online degrees...won't any school/government that has a policy about online degrees check the transcripts, which would identify them as online classes anyway regardless of what the diploma says and whether or not there's a brick and mortar uni? I mean the timeline of my Masters will overlap with my working period in China, I think most people will assume it's done online just based on that.
Reply
@Bayesic
Yes, absolutely.
In 2020 the US DOE removed the designations of "Regional Accreditation" and "National Accreditation" and aggregated them to the category of "Institutional Accreditation" as opposed to the designation of "Program Accreditation" such as CAEP, MACTE, etc. That doesnt mean they dont exist any more and more importantly that there isnt a difference. Some of those differences are very narrow and specific, such as when applying for citizenship or PR in a country with a points system for open application. A regionally accredited US degree is likely to get those points where as a nationally accredited US degree is less likely to be accepted and award those application points. Some of those differences are very general and broad, an exclusively online Uni with only national accreditation is more likely to be seen as inferior or worse invalid compared to one that has regional accreditation even if its still an exclusively online Uni.
My point is that within the scope of IE and in the context of application marketability and salary band the differences between the exclusively online Unis of UPe and ACE if there is a difference its a trivial one.Two points to note:
1) UPe has a lot of foreign and international students and by extension many more working in IE than ACE does, youre more likely to meet a UPe alum than an ACE alum.
2) UPe is also undergoing the accreditation process for WASC accreditation. They have progressed to the candidacy stage having completed their 2nd accreditation visit with a 3rd scheduled for the Fall of 2024. Their list of deficiencies grows shorter and shorter. The majority of their deficiencies are in regard to documentation in collecting data and formalizing their structure, approach and policies (mainly that their policies are supported by data). They have one maybe two heavy tasks left (mostly dealing with curriculum and OER materials). They are at most a couple years away from receiving WASC accreditation.
First, It depends on the source of the policy or rule. An IS is more likely to require transcripts but a Ministry (for visa purposes) is more likely to be interested in the scroll rather than the transcript.
Second, Many Uni dont include a designation for online/distance courses and programs verses F2F/residence programs. Its not difficult though to discover that ACE (or UPe) are exclusively online Unis compared to the method of program delivery at a Uni. in residence.
Third, theres a higher degree of animosity towards exclusively online Unis that isnt present for online/distance programs offered at brick and mortar Unis.
Likely true. There are Unis that offer summer only degrees that are provided in residence. Its also possible to attend an extension campus of a Uni locally. Nottingham for example has some applicable edu degrees at their campus in Ningbo, Liverpool has a campus partnership in Suzhou, and Sunderland has a campus in Hong Kong as some examples.
Yes, absolutely.
In 2020 the US DOE removed the designations of "Regional Accreditation" and "National Accreditation" and aggregated them to the category of "Institutional Accreditation" as opposed to the designation of "Program Accreditation" such as CAEP, MACTE, etc. That doesnt mean they dont exist any more and more importantly that there isnt a difference. Some of those differences are very narrow and specific, such as when applying for citizenship or PR in a country with a points system for open application. A regionally accredited US degree is likely to get those points where as a nationally accredited US degree is less likely to be accepted and award those application points. Some of those differences are very general and broad, an exclusively online Uni with only national accreditation is more likely to be seen as inferior or worse invalid compared to one that has regional accreditation even if its still an exclusively online Uni.
My point is that within the scope of IE and in the context of application marketability and salary band the differences between the exclusively online Unis of UPe and ACE if there is a difference its a trivial one.Two points to note:
1) UPe has a lot of foreign and international students and by extension many more working in IE than ACE does, youre more likely to meet a UPe alum than an ACE alum.
2) UPe is also undergoing the accreditation process for WASC accreditation. They have progressed to the candidacy stage having completed their 2nd accreditation visit with a 3rd scheduled for the Fall of 2024. Their list of deficiencies grows shorter and shorter. The majority of their deficiencies are in regard to documentation in collecting data and formalizing their structure, approach and policies (mainly that their policies are supported by data). They have one maybe two heavy tasks left (mostly dealing with curriculum and OER materials). They are at most a couple years away from receiving WASC accreditation.
First, It depends on the source of the policy or rule. An IS is more likely to require transcripts but a Ministry (for visa purposes) is more likely to be interested in the scroll rather than the transcript.
Second, Many Uni dont include a designation for online/distance courses and programs verses F2F/residence programs. Its not difficult though to discover that ACE (or UPe) are exclusively online Unis compared to the method of program delivery at a Uni. in residence.
Third, theres a higher degree of animosity towards exclusively online Unis that isnt present for online/distance programs offered at brick and mortar Unis.
Likely true. There are Unis that offer summer only degrees that are provided in residence. Its also possible to attend an extension campus of a Uni locally. Nottingham for example has some applicable edu degrees at their campus in Ningbo, Liverpool has a campus partnership in Suzhou, and Sunderland has a campus in Hong Kong as some examples.