Arizona vs Moreland

veeleetee
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:37 am

Arizona vs Moreland

Post by veeleetee »

Hello Smart Teacher People!

Okay here's my deal....I'm an American fine arts IS teacher with many years of experience, but no certification. I have read these boards for years and years trying to make sense of the best path through it. I wasn't overly excited about Teach Now because of sketchy stories I'd heard through the grapevines of it all over the years, but caved. Last year I got half way through the program and then landed a job on another continent and had to pause the program in lieu of the big move. In the meanwhile I tried to sort out my remaining TN timeline. No one in the program communicated anything to me about anything last year. This year I finally got some dude (his job? no clue) to explain "some frameworks". But ya see, certification in my subject isn't offered in DC anymore and for reasons I don't understand DC was the only certification option that was discussed. I was sent through a labyrinth of email threads and did not score the Golden Fleece. Randos told me conflicting tids and tads. One email was forwarded to me saying, "let's not encourage her to get her hopes up for something that COULD be but probably won't be in any reality" - it was like a Julian Assange truther leak- WTF??? Why was that even forwarded to me?? Moreland feels like a headless hydra.

Eventually I was told I would have to get my certification in another subject and do my arts (my fulltime job for the past 17 years) cert as an add on. At that point I gave up and accepted it. But that didn't last very long. I got back into TN and immediately saw the headlessness going on ad infinitum - there is no escape from this except a path straight into The Forest of Endless Bullsh*t.

A friend chimed in that Arizona does not require a teacher prep program - that you can get a cert with a degree in your subject (and they have my subject) and perhaps a test or two. I have read and reread their site and this seems to be true. Can anyone elucidate??? Psych Guy???

I really want my Willy Wonka golden ticket - or the ole fleece - aka my actual subject certification and sincerely am not up to speed on another subject's content test.

Thank you in advance!!!!
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

My first issue is that Teach Now is an EPP/ITT provider for DC, WV, AND AZ. The AZ program includes secondary content areas which would include 6-12 Art, Im reasonably certain I know why, but it seems that moving you into AZ would have at least been something to try if for no other reason the spectacle pageantry improves the optics of the issue.

As to your inquiry into AZ, probably not, very unlikely, and no.

Probably Not: Looking at the first issue, AZ doesnt require an EPP/ITT program in the same way DODEA doesnt require one. To be clear there is a non EPP/ITT pathway available, but its not a practical route. For you there are effectively two credential options: Secondary Art (6-12) or Art Education (PK-12). The PK-12 one is the one you most likely want, but the difference between the two is the PK-12 credential requires coursework in 4 dimensions of art whereas the Secondary Art doesnt require any specific art coursework. Thats not the issue though, the issue is you need to have a number of Pro. Edu. course work for either of them that essentially covers the trinity of meds, peds, and asst. Its unlikely your art degree (assuming you have one) has those Prof. Edu. elements in it. Candidates get those Pro. Edu courses in typivally academic pathway (Uni) Pro. Edu EPP/ITT programs. So no you cant just submit a transcript for a degree in a content field and get a credential in AZ, unless when you did your degree you combined it with a Prof. Edu series of courses.

Not Likely: The next issue is, you stated youre not comfortable taking exams outside of art. This would mean your AZ credential would expire after 3 years because you have to complete a course in ethics and either a course or an exam in both the US Constitution and the AZ Constitution, both of which you stated youre not comfortable with, since they arent art.

No: This is simple, AZ doesnt except OS experience to meet experience requirements. Since you dont have a credential its unlikely you taught in US DE prior to entering IE, though possible you worked in a private/independent DS prior to IE, it doesnt sound like you did.

So looking at options:

1) Stay with Teach Now; You arent going to like it but doing a different initial EPP/ITT content area is probably the way to go. Something like elementary may be the easiest exam for you to do (aside from art), then add a secondary/all grade art endorsement.

2) AZ; You could go somewhere like UPe and do the 3 Prof. Edu courses for about USD$960. You could get them done in one semester (2 eight week terms) though possible you could do all three in one 8 week term. This gets you a three year Standard credential (Entry grade) credential. You could then try to use it to get QTS beating the AZ expiration deadline or you could try to find an ethics course and either do the 2 constitution exams or find courses. This works if the TRA/TCL doesnt know about the deficiencies and grant you QTS.

3) MA; You could get the MA provisional (Entry grade) credential, which would be an effective lifetime credential simply by taking a Prof. Edu content (Art) exam and the Communication Literacy exam ( English Language proficiency exam).

4) AO; You could go for QTS through the AO (an asst pathway) route using an EPP/ITT provider like TES its about £3K. This would get you QTS.

5) Program Completer; Its possible, though remote you could finish the Teach Now program as a Program Completer without the DC Art credential and use the program completion letter as evidence of completing an EPP/ITT program to obtain a credential through a state like HI or better WA (WAs would effectively be a lifetime credential). You would potentially (there are multiple options) have to take the PRAXIS I exam (its a basic knowledge exam in reading, writing and maths), but otherwise this would be relatively easy. This would depend if Teach Now where willing to grant you such a status and letter attesting to such. Its remote because without such a letter this doesnt work.
veeleetee
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:37 am

Re: Arizona vs Moreland

Post by veeleetee »

Thank you Psych Guy! I greatly appreciate the information.

Program Completer is the option I had thought of myself - this was sooooo helpful though. I will write them. As I've already spent the money and am in clinicals might as well finish TN. But, I don't want to get certified in DC in another subject. Secondary English Lit would be what I'd go for as I've taught it, but it's been ages. I"m not a primary teacher at all and wouldn't even want to bring that into the possibility of life by getting certified in it.

Yes I taught in the States but not long enough. And I've taken Praxis I but it sadly has expired.

I've worked at two Embassy schools and thought about trying to make a case because, of course, Embassy schools are Embassy ground and therefore "America" LOL (very doubtful - god only knows how many emails it would take to get to the center of that lollipop).

Thank you again!!! I have a bit of hope now.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@veeleetee

You dont have to teach primary as a HRT, my thought is you would approach it from the perspective of a primary level art specialist IT (non-HRT). Primary is the easiest of the exams in your arena of knowledge. Once you have a credential though if it is TN youre going to want to move it somewhere like WA where you dont have to do PD or worry about renewals. Then you apply for QTS. You can drop the Primary at some point, either dont renew it specifically such as the case for DC or request the transferring DOE not to issue a credential/endorsement for it. Being solely a primary art specialist though with an additional Primary credential though isnt an issue in IE.

You should do well enough retaking the PRAXIS I.

The embassy ISs though arent on the actual embassy/consulate grounds. At one time you could have made that argument in some cases but for the most part DOS doesnt have embassy ISs anymore.
Alchemeister
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Arizona vs Moreland

Post by Alchemeister »

@psyguy

Hey Psyguy. Could you refer me to the website to get an Arizona license through the process you mentioned above. I have a Masters in Education (ESOL) so I had to take a lot of education courses which I would assume would fulfill the requirement you mentioned. Where should I look for completing this process?
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Alchemeister

Sure but its not likely to work for you. in AZ ESOL is an endorsement only credentialing area, it doesnt exist as a standalone credential. It can only be added to an already full credential (such as primary or secondary, or all grade specialist credential). Since you didnt complete an EPP/ITT program you would have to first meet the academic and testing requirements for a primary or secondary or specialist level credential in an area other than ESOL.
Here are the links:

General Link with to the EC-12 Credentials and application access
https://www.azed.gov/educator-certifica ... rtificates

Special Population, including ESOL Links
https://www.azed.gov/educator-certifica ... dorsements

SEI is for DTs that will have ESOL students in their primary or secondary general education class. ESL includes the typical standalone ESOL resource class most familiar to ITs.
Alchemeister
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Arizona vs Moreland

Post by Alchemeister »

@psyguy

I actually ended up calling the Arizona Department of Education and they told me that I could get my certification in my situation. I just have to send them my transcripts and get my school to sign a paper saying I’ve been teaching English for at least two years, and then take some exams and get fingerprints done. I think they require me to take the ELA exam first for being able to teach ESOL. But I have to call to ask more information.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Alchemeister

Of course you can apply, but they also didnt give you any assurances. Unless you have an undergraduate preparation with the right coursework and credits/hours to qualify in something else such as ELA (Literature) or something else, than youre not going to likely be successful. AZ requires completion EPP/ITT program or adequate academic preparation. It is a route that does not require an EPP/ITT program but its not have Bachelors/First degree and take an exam and youre done. You need to have a Bachelors/First degree and complete credential testing and then either complete an EPP/ITT program or have 2 years experience (and AZ does not accept OS experience) and acceptable academic preparation in both pro. edu. and an endorsable content ares. You will then to meet the reading intervention, ethics and US & AZ constitution requirement within three years of your credential being issued.

I hope it works out for you, but many applicants have gone into it thinking its a degree and a test and done, and for a high proportion of them it either didnt work out at issuance because they didnt have the coursework or they werent able to complete the deficiencies before lapsing.
Alchemeister
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Arizona vs Moreland

Post by Alchemeister »

@psyguy

So I specifically asked the representative if I could use my foreign teaching experience and she said yes but I couldn’t use it to exempt myself from having to take the exams. I also asked if it mattered that my bachelors was not in English, and she said no. She said to send my masters transcripts and if there are any education courses I still have to take she’ll let me know. So it sounds like that no foreign teaching experience accepted is only for being able to wave the exams. It also says so on the website. https://www.azed.gov/node/27084
PsyGuy
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Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

@Alchemeister

It will be interesting to hear how it works out.
Alchemeister
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Re: Arizona vs Moreland

Post by Alchemeister »

An update. I’m still in the process of applying for my Arizona license, but I found another simpler path that I’m going for first. In Arizona, they have something called “subject matter expert” standard license. For this, all you need is a degree in a related subject and to pass the professional knowledge test within two years after receiving the license. The only caveat with this license is that you can’t add anything on to the license apart from ESL or special needs endorsements. Otherwise it lasts 12 years and allows you to teach the same as if you had a secondary teaching license. I have a degree in communications so I’ll get my credential for Journalism first and after I pass my professional knowledge test I’ll look at getting the secondary license for ELA.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Alchemeister

Simpler than what?

First its not a license.
Second while the AZ DOE uses the term "standard" in its description its not the same meaning as having a Standard grade, Regular type, credential. The "Subject Matter Expert" credential is more a Permit type than a Regular type credential. It wont get you QTS, Registered status in HK, or Registration with any of the other GTCs, it wont even be accepted by another State DOE in the USA. Its a permit that sounds better than many other permits, but its still a permit.
Third, the certificate it actually inscribed with "Subject Matter Expert" as opposed to anything sounding like "Teacher"
Fourth, your ESOL endorsement will be attached to that certificate and will clearly indicate its an endorsement.

Compare this pathway to the MA Provisional (Entry grade) credential. Which requires, for PK-12, a Bachelors/first degree (any subject) and passing the Literacy exam and the ESOL subject matter exam. This results in an effective lifetime regular type credential that doesnt require any renewal.
Compared to the AZ path you have described: You need a Bachelors/First degree in the subject your applying for (and this results in a 6-12 only credential). You will then need to pass the Pro.Edu. (PTL) exam and complete an online course in ethics (its actually pretty easy and USD$200) which gets you a 12 year renewable permit. Then to get the ESOL (ESL) endorsement you will need the 6 specific courses, teaching experience or a practicum, and meet the language learning requirement. On top of all that youll have to submit fingerprints for a CRB. This is renewable ever 12 years requiring 180 hrs. of PD.

This is a viable pathway to something that sounds more than and better than the permit it is, and compared to a more obvious permit may have better utility than some of them out there. What it isnt is better, easier, or simpler than going with the MA Provisional credential.
Alchemeister
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Arizona vs Moreland

Post by Alchemeister »

@psyguy

Just wanted to give an update. I was able to get a subject matter expert license in my subject area from Arizona. The license had an allowable deficiency for the NES Assessment of Professional Knowledge:Secondary which I would’ve had to pass in two years.

I then was successful is transferring that license to Mississippi, and I was given a SEL (Standard Educator License) in my subject area with no deficiencies or provisions. I’m able to add endorsements freely as well, providing I complete coursework or pass that subject’s praxis exam.

So this was a successful path for me. It may or may not work for others. For example, this path probably won’t work for non-American teachers. I’m thankful I didn’t have to take any tests for this license since they stress me out so much.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Alchemeister

You got very lucky, and slipped through a crack. Theres nothing wrong with cracks, but again lucky. I would suggest you consider using the MS credential to apply for QTS. MS has an online portal to verify the credentials.
It wouldnt work in the future as MS is restructuring their applicant requirements. Applicants will have to furnish evidence of completing an EPP/ITT program in the future. If youre going to add additional endorsements understand thats a process of someone reviewing your application, and you may be required in the future to provide documentation of completing an EPP/ITT program when they see there isnt one on file as a requirement for future endorsements.
It also wouldnt work for foreign ITs as MS doesnt issue non-sponsored credentials to foreigners.
Alchemeister
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Arizona vs Moreland

Post by Alchemeister »

@payguy
I guess so. I was wondering, for QTS, doesn’t the teaching experience requirement only count teaching experience after getting the license you’re trying to transfer? Do I have to wait 20 months in order to successfully apply?

Another option I thought of in the short term was applying to get a Missouri license because they have full reciprocity and a lifetime credential.
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