PGCE again sorry

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booboo14
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 8:55 am

PGCE again sorry

Post by booboo14 »

What is the difference between these two programs?

https://www.sunderland.ac.uk/study/educ ... s-and-reqs
https://www.sunderland.ac.uk/study/educ ... s-and-reqs

@PSY Guy. If you read this. You once stated these could be used to get the HK RT, but don't you need to be a resident of HK for that?

What are the odds that parliament goes ahead with the iQTS = QTS legislation?

Does the AO route have to be done at a BSO?

Thanks in advance.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

The first program is an academic PGCE program with a significant field experience component, that is structured to work concurrently well with Sunderlands AO program at the same time. Essentially youre using two providers in the same placement to complete both the PGCE and the AO route to QTS.
*This program can be completed in a single placement though if you are doing AO as well you will need too have two different age bands.
*The window for the field work evaluations is over two distinct Academic years over two distinct semesters, the first in the Spring at the end of year 1 and one in the Autumn at the beginning of year 2. The windows are narrower over about 2 months each. This means for purposes of IE you need a two year appointment/job. You also want be credentialed until after the start of year 2.
*This program can be completed internationally or domestically.
*This program is suitable for all ages including post 16 groups (such as vocational programs) as well as any and all subjects (including areas such as SPED/SEN/LD, etc.)
* It should be obvious, but this program does not lead directly to nor provide eligibility for QTS, iQTS or any other type of UK credential.
*The coin is about £1400 less than the second program.

The second program is a professional PGCE ITT/EPP program. Its structured to meet the draft requirements for iQTS based in whole on taking the QTS program requirements and moving them off shore and giving it a different name. If Parliament approves the regulations a completer of this program will be able to convert iQTS to QTS. This is a distinct and independent process from the award of iQTS by itself. iQTS is happening, its done, its a thing. What it means in value and utility is yet to be seen and the QTS conversion is a significant and substantial factor in that determination, but iQTS is still going to exist.
*The window for the field work evaluations is in the same academic year over two semesters. One in Autumn and one in the Spring. The window is also wider, about 3-4 months as opposed to 2 months in each semester. You can complete this program in a single year and be credentialed (depending on the status of iQTS and QTS and what iQTS by itself means), in hand, before the start of the next academic year.
*Because this is a complete program two age placements will be required. Primary will have to do upper and lower primary and secondary will have to do a lower and upper secondary placement.
*This program can ONLY be completed internationally. You cant pick up the program in the UK because something happens at your IS.
*This program is only suitable for primary and secondary positions (no vocational) which doesnt really happen much for IE.
Where it does matter for IE is that its also not appropriate for some specialization areas. Mainly this applies SPED/SEN/LD where the IT is a support edu doing inclusion/push-in delivery and instruction, where there is essentially another edu in the classroom who is the TOR for the class. It is not appropriate for intervention structured roles such as reading, ESOL, learning support (you have to have curriculum and assessment against standards where grades/marks are issued), as well as management positions in library and IT positions (you have to teach), etc. You have to have your own class (walls, desks, chairs, a writing board, books), you have to be the TOR for the placement to be eligible.
* The coin is about £1400 more.

Yes, you need to be resident but what this means is you have to apply in person as even a tourist visa (landing slip) qualifies as "resident". You will need to have applied for and received equivalence from the HKCAAVQ regarding you non HK documents in advanced. You can apply for equivalence from the HKCAAVQ by mail/post.

I dont know.
Some people in the know on the edu association side say its not going to happen and that the Dfe set it up for Parliament to be the bad guy and kill if for them. Then some people in the know on the Uni side say the edu profession needs this if they arent going to reverse direction on the comp and coin it takes to retain and keep DTs in the classroom. It Parliament wasnt a shambles, if Brexit was settled, if the Queen hadnt died (God save the King), and if the British economy was a bit more (okay a lot more) roses and daisies, or at least in a better, okay not even better, just a known place it would be different. I cant even say its coin flip, die roll, or a green/white bet on the wheel kind of probability. If I was pressed over a couple liters of good vino, and I could form the words without slurring Id say ~ ""Its probably going to happen such that the cohort in this first pilot instance is going to get a window of application for them that will accept iQTS and award them QTS, but that going forward there is going to be some form of additional requirement/s to convert iQTS to QTS"", and that if further pressed on what that might look like my reactive reflection would be that ""its going to look like something portfolio'ish"". Of course that would be more the vino talking (because I dont use apostrophes), which it may as well be as the bottle knows about as much as anyone and their crystal ball/magic eight ball does.
::stepping away from the table::
What you really need to concern yourself with is what iQTS independently means? An iQTS too QTS conversion process isnt worth anything if ISs and foreign ministries decree that QTS obtained by virtue of iQTS isnt an acceptable pathways to them (much the same way that BSs dont see QTS obtained as an OTT as really being QTS). What is the EU going to think about it? The UK isnt part of the European system anymore, are they going to use the opportunity to punish the UK in this small way? The Unis, TCL/TRA, Dfe, Parliament can mumble and moan all they want, if a ministry determines its not equivalent there isnt anything Westminster can do about it. If an IS, or even a BS or even more so a BSO doesnt want to accept QTS by iQTS conversion there isnt anyone that can make them accept it and hire an IT. There is a sizable amount of leadership on the BS side of IE that doesnt like where the deemphasis on QTS and the emphasis on Induction and the ECT framework is going. Those leaders can think and do whatever they want. If the leadership that matters think of iQTS as a credential thats whats going to matter. The technical position of the Dfe and its inspectorates already accept that iQTS is a credential. The Dfe is the regulating authority so if they state that X, whatever it is, is a credential than unless Parliament explicitly decrees otherwise and abolishes iQTS altogether, than its for technical purposes a credential and while being technically right is the best kind of right, where it practically matters is if IE and the world ministries of whatever see iQTS as a credential. If they do then the whole conversion process is really a recognition process of one credential (iQTS) being recognized for issuance of another credential (QTS). If they dont, than you may as well stop there, clock out early and have an extra pint, because the only kind of right that matters is the one that someone else respects.

No, the AO route must be done at a DS/IS that uses the UK NC, it doesnt have to be a BSO, and doesnt have to have been inspected. Its up to the assessor and the provider to determine if the DS/IS (through observance of the IT) is sufficiently implementing the UK NC in its curriculum and standards and subsequently by the IT in their presentation and instruction.
You can only do Induction (as part of the ECT framework) at a recently inspected (within 6 years) BSO that was rated acceptable or better within that time period.

::aside::

The current whispering is that with more of an emphasis on the ECT framework that the plan for the future of QTS will place a time limit on how long ECT status will be valid for with some kind of renewal or revalidation process required after a certain reoccurring period of time to maintain their ECT validity. They wont lose QTS (a credential) but they will cease being licensed (authorized to provide instructional services) until they complete the renewal revalidation process (whatever that will be). The rational being that the new induction process being doubly if not more burdensome they need some driving factor to motivate DTs/ITs to participate in Induction and for more DSs/iSs (but really non-maintained DSs) to provide Induction programs.
muinteoir
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:50 am

Re: PGCE again sorry

Post by muinteoir »

Just two small additions to PsyGuy's comment:

1. In the first one (PGCE only), the placements are done in the same year, not two academic years. In the northern hemisphere, there is one in autumn (usually end of October to mid-December) and one in spring of the same academic year (usually March-May).

2. There is no "UK curriclum", PsyGuy is referring to the English National curriculum.

From the Sunderland Website: The AOR to QTS is also possible if you wish to be assessed while teaching overseas. Please note that you must be at a school that runs the English National Curriculum, or a school that runs a recognised international curriculum (such as IB, IPC, Cambridge, etc).

You can do PGCE first and later take the Assessment Only Route (AOR) to QTS (currently £2000). I don't know what the advantage would be.
https://www.sunderland.ac.uk/study/shor ... route-qts/

I would go with the PGCE+iQTS if I had my time again!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@muinteoir

1) No its not, not this year (2023):
"We require all trainees to ensure that your placement blocks are in alignment with the calendar for the year. The FIRST placement block should take place in a window between APRIL and MAY 2023 with the SECOND window being between AUGUST and OCTOBER 2023. Trainees MUST conduct your six-week blocks within these windows.", [emphasis added].
Its the whole iQTS issue. The contingency plan if Parliament doesnt approve the iQTS too QTS conversion process in the iQTS PGCE program is to move the PGCEi-iQTS candidates into AO and get them through in time for the end of the AY. This would require last minute shifting of the technically academic PGCE candidates, Sunderland is just executing the contingency preemptively.

2) When I refer to the UK NC it is short hand for the English National Curriculum not to be confused with the curriculum for the rest of the UK. Not that theres a significant difference in the core academics.

3) AO is generally available anywhere the DS/IS is using the UK NC.
The advantage would be that a large portion of your portfolio would be presumptive be accepted. You would be a known quality. Its easier, though its more work.
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