MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

INeedHelp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:44 am

MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by INeedHelp »

Hi,

Don't want to name the school or the country. (There have been threats made) Long story short, the school said renewing my visa was 'no problem' then, they said 'just waiting for funds' then they said 'please delay your summer travel' due to the cost involved. As best I can piece together, at one point there were willing to renew it, but A) they grossly underestimated the costs, and B) they thought an investor was coming on board, but it fell through. Now they claim they are broke.

What can I do, as I have on money of my own to deal with this?
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Caution

Post by PsyGuy »

Something isnt right here, your post makes no sense.

1) If the IS is broke their threats mean nothing, as they cant afford to enforce anything.
2) While visa costs can seem high, youre renewing a visa. There isnt a country with a renewal fee so high it would break the bank, even if you had to absorb the costs yourself without reimbursement. If you yourself have no coin to pay the visa renewal than how are you going to eat the rest of this month, its only the thirteenth?
3) If the IS is that broke what job is there to have at all? They cant afford to pay your salary or any of your comp at this point.

Assuming your post isnt the prelude to a scam, what you need to do is find another job since its likely you dont have an exit plan and if you do you dont have the coin to execute it. You need to start by first, registering with an online ES so you can put some coin together. Second, secure a new appointment that will allow you to renew your visa. Third, start a crowd sourcing project (GoFundMe, etc.) so you make it to the end of the month. If none of those are an option and you have to leave then you need to make a visit to your embassy to discuss repatriation. I would advise against it, simply because you are likely to have better income generating opportunities where you are either tutoring or in ESOL than you will back home unless you have friends or family you can live with for about a year while you find a new OSH appointment.
INeedHelp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by INeedHelp »

By PsyGuy,

This is no scam. I'm actually a bit scared to post too many specific details on a public forum, so I am being a bit vague. I'm actually dead broke, because the 'salary' is no where near what a proper school would pay. (I was promised a huge bonus when the school reached a certain number of students--I stupidly believed them)

A friend sent some emergency money, that's how I am eating at this point.

I thought I was going to be able to go to the Embassy, explain they employed me under false pretenses, say I want to leave the country, and they would help escort me out, as I did not deliberately overstay, I relied on a false promise. Perhaps I didn't use the right words, (or honestly I simply don't know) but to my disappointment they said there was nothing they could do.

@PsyGuy, are you a member of the site? If so, is it worth paying the $29 to go on the 'Members Only' forum? I would probably feel more safe given context/details there as (I admit this episode has me psychologically rattled) if there are members there who are familiar with this stuff.

Thank you for your reply.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@INeedHelp

Still not making sense.
First, there is no countries visa renewal costs that are in any way significant to an IS that it would require funding from an investor. If an IS cant pay that fee, they cant keep the lights on. So either the IS is so broke that staff are walking out the door with whatever they can carry or the IS doesnt want to renew your visa and they delayed you purposefully to create an overstay and using your overstay to make their problem immigrations problem.
Second, Regardless of the bonus its not even the middle of the month and whatever coin your salary paid out at either the end of September or the beginning of October is so low you cant feed yourself for the whole month, meaning you should have starved a long time ago. If it was that low, why would you have stayed so long to get to a point your visa even needed renewal?

So you overstayed thats why your embassy cant help. They cant escort you out of the country when youve essentially violated the immigration laws of the region you are in. What some countries embassies will do is IF you have valid transit papers they may as a last resort provide you a ticket back to your HOR.

I am on the members forum. I dont see how spending your meager resources for a membership would benefit you. USD$29 is eating for 3 days at least. Joining the member forum would allow you to name the IS and the country but beyond some self gratification its not going to provide you any meaningful benefits. You can submit an IS and a leader review to ISR without being a paid member.

My instincts are telling me this story of yours is going to devolve to a solicitation for coin at some point.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by sid »

Very strange situation and I have similar questions to PG, which in itself is all the odd. Anyway

Get your ducks in a row to cut loose from the school. Whatever's going on, they apparently have neither the ability nor the resources to keep you afloat. Figure out how to get gainful employment asap, where you are or elsewhere. Stop looking for solutions that involve your current school stepping up in any way, shape or form. If you were hired through a recruitment agency, make sure to fill them in. Don't expect any help, but at least you might prevent the school from pulling this with the next applicant.

Embassies aren't likely to help. Generally, they do have programs to repatriate hapless travelers, but these come at a high cost, and all but the most desperate find other ways to repatriate themselves. More specifically, expect that if they do repatriate you, it is a loan, not a gift, and your passport will be rendered null and void until you repay that loan. Governments are not keen for travelers to go back abroad if they've already proven unable to support themselves when they do.

Don't bother posting on the paid site until you are at least out of the country. If the school can find out what you post in the open forum, they can find out about the paid one too. There's no screening of who is a member, just a fee, so it could be anyone.

Very sorry to hear it's come to this. Good luck going forward, and keep us posted.
INeedHelp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by INeedHelp »

[quote=PsyGuy post_id=63367 time=1665636641 user_id=68047]
First, there is no countries visa renewal costs that are in any way significant to an IS that it would require funding from an investor. If an IS cant pay that fee, they cant keep the lights on. So either the IS is so broke that staff are walking out the door with whatever they can carry or the IS doesnt want to renew your visa and they delayed you purposefully to create an overstay and using your overstay to make their problem immigrations problem.
[/quote]

All of the above are true. Except for the the cost has become quite high now to renew. They want my 'presence' for a marketing tool, but because they think they have me over a barrel, they can treat me anyhow until they finally decide to kick me loose. (i.e. when the numbers finally improve) They have the pull to fix the immigration problem; they are arguing over which owner of the school should pay for it, leaving me in limbo.

It seems with the precarious state the school is in, the one 'nuclear option' might be to get the parents to appeal on my behalf, that they resolve this. For some it would be an absolute deal-breaker, as this would be the final straw to remove their children from the school and the threat/shame of that might force them to spend the money. That's an absolute last resort on my part, because there is no turning back. Trying to get them to see the wisdom of they just spend the money, and my resignation is announced is the least controversial way possible, such as 'returning home to take care of ailing elder parents'. It gets me out of their hair, doesn't hurt the school, and then the owners can fight it out among themselves--won't be my problem any more.
INeedHelp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by INeedHelp »

sid wrote:
> Very strange situation and I have similar questions to PG, which in itself
> is all the odd. Anyway
>
> Get your ducks in a row to cut loose from the school. Whatever's going on,
> they apparently have neither the ability nor the resources to keep you
> afloat.

That's the problem! If the visa was sorted, I'd simply go. I have offered this multiple times. (One group wants me to stay; another wants me to go--the problem is neither want to pay to renew things.)

> they apparently have neither the ability nor the resources to keep you
> afloat.

The school doesn't. But the owners could write a check in a heartbeat. I'm trying to get them to see the wisdom of them sorting it out once and for all in a way that isn't a scandal for the school. I do believe multiple parents would be quite upset at the treatment I have been given. With a long list of promises that have not been kept to them, it might actually be a deal breaker. This is not an option I want to explore unless every single option is off the table. What smart schools do when there is not a meeting of the minds, they come to an agreement with the expat, come up with a mutually agreed upon story (ex: she is having to leave at this time to care for her ailing parents) that doesn't bring disrepute to the school.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@INeedHelp

No its not a high cost at all. There are some regions where bringing in a new IT can cost around USD$1000 but a renewal in no country anywhere is above a few hundred USD.

This is still making no sense. They want you as a marketing tool to bring in students but the IS is broke but ownership isnt. So what ownership is going to start funding the IS out of there own pocket. That doesnt happen. Ownership may invest in their own school but its always as a capital investment. Ownership isnt going to subsume costs of operations for anything other than a relatively short period of time and it makes no sense to do this for an IT in your situation. This your an employee but your not, it just makes zero sense.

So now its an immigration problem needing pull to fix, your previous claims were that the IS was broke and it was paying the fee that was the issue?

So there are still students attending and bills getting paid and there are still staff and faculty showing up for work who I assume are getting paid, but your not? So the IS isnt broke or isnt as broke as you claimed earlier, which isnt nearly broke enough that a visa renewal fee would break the bank.

Odd day but @Sid and I seem to be in agreement, you need to move this IS out of your mind and move on with finding a new job that will support you. Whatever the drama, youre in real jeopardy without a visa and your troubles get worse every day youre over staying. In the end its all your responsibility not the ISs. Youre illegally working in the country and your not comped enough to live off, this is a no brainer its time to sever your relationship whatever it is with this IS and find a real job.

@Sid

I concur with the embassy assistance plan, but as the LW described this situation appears dire. They are down to their last bits of coin just to eat how can they afford to do anything except find a new local appointment that will support them, which they have precious little time to do since rent is likely do in a couple of weeks, that they dont have. They cant leave the country because of the overstay and they likely dont have enough coin to pay the penalty, and then they dont have the coin to relocate somewhere else. They either find somewhere local for new appointment in the next few weeks or they pack it in and head home where friends and family will put them up until they can find a new job, and I doubt they will have any options for the flight ticket home other than using the repatriation option of an embassy regardless of what the cost is. The LW is effectively weeks away from being homeless.
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by sid »

OP, you seem to have faith in the school that I simply can’t envision. If they (school, owners, makes no difference) wanted this sorted, it would already be sorted.

Even if magically they resolved it (they won’t), you’d be stuck in a school on the brink of disaster, working for unethical people who have already conned you out of your previous stable existence, out of a promised raise, and into a situation that could result in your arrest for immigration violations. Nothing suggests your life will improve if you stay hitched to these people.

Involving parents will make things worse. The school will be beyond angry and the parents already know the school is what it is. They don’t want your drama, they want quiet lives. The school would retaliate for losing face and you would suffer more.

You don’t have to wait for the visa in order to leave. If the school is holding your passport, or claiming that the government has it, go back to your embassy and have them issue an emergency passport because you “lost” yours.

Get out.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

I concur fully with @Sid, who wrote it better than I did. On top of all that, its not even a job worth fighting for. They arent paying you enough coin to live off of. The massive bonus is never going to materialize.

@Sid

Where I disagree with you is being able to leave. First, ff they have an overstay and their current visa isnt valid they may not be able to leave until they resolve that overstay. This may involve a fine or a period of detention and the LW doesnt have the coin likely to pay whatever the fine or penalty is, the LW can barely afford to eat. Second, as to a passport reissue, that is also going to have a cost associated with it if the LW requests a replacement and again the LW barely can afford to eat. Third, leaving has a cost associated with it. You cant fly for free, and again, the LW barely has enough coin to eat.
INeedHelp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:44 am

Re: Reply

Post by INeedHelp »

@psyguy,

Thank you. I fully understand your skepticism, as some things I have been vague about due to fears of my safety. I reported these to the Embassy, and they said contact the police. I asked how I can report the same people who deliberately mislead me about the visa--as they know full well I won't report them due to the visa? The Embassy in essence said good luck.

Re: I concur fully with @Sid, who wrote it better than I did. On top of all that, its not even a job worth fighting for. They arent paying you enough coin to live off of. The massive bonus is never going to materialize.

@psyguy I agree. How do I get out of the airport is the question?

Re: @Sid Where I disagree with you is being able to leave. First, ff they have an overstay and their current visa isnt valid they may not be able to leave until they resolve that overstay. This may involve a fine or a period of detention and the LW doesnt have the coin likely to pay whatever the fine or penalty is, the LW can barely afford to eat.

To clear up a thing or two. The school provides housing/utilities. That's why, with the little coin I got from a relative, I am able to eat. What I don't have is the money to pay fines. They actually have the pull to fix this--very easily. It's just that those who have the pull did not really want an expat on board, and are expecting those who did to pay for it. And the one who wanted the expat on board is squabbling with those who didn't, and isn't willing to put any more money into the school as a result.

It's just a situation of total limbo. In one way, as long as I don't try to leave, I am perfectly safe, because anything that happens those with the pull would immediately spring me. But as @Sid pointed out, it's no longer worth fighting for. One of the owners is convinced that if they simply take all the school fees they have collected, and 'advertise' the school, the school will magically double in size over the course of a term. I have never heard of a school doubling in size in the middle of a school year, but somehow they are convinced. (Have either of you? Seems like a terrible thing to bank on.)

The thing is, how do I get out of the airport? There is a chance--eventually--somebody will come around and pay for it. Too many people assured me "the Embassy is your friend" and if I simply explained how I was kept under false pretenses, they would surely escort me out. Maybe there is some magic word I don't know, but that was not the case.

I know parents are the 'nuclear option'--I have heard that at least one knows about the situation, and my guess is would speak out if approached. It's a total, complete last resort if all options fail.

What I am hoping is, they will simply pay to get rid of me, and I have assured them if they do, I will go in the least controversial way (ex: I have to return home immediately to tend to ailing parents)

Will they see the wisdom in that? I don't know, but as of now, I don't know how to get out of the airport.
INeedHelp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by INeedHelp »

sid wrote:

> Even if magically they resolved it (they won’t), you’d be stuck in a school on the brink of disaster, working for unethical people who have already
> conned you out of your previous stable existence, out of a promised raise, and into a situation that could result in your arrest for immigration
> violations. Nothing suggests your life will improve if you stay hitched to these people.

@sid, I agree

> You don’t have to wait for the visa in order to leave. If the school is holding your passport, or claiming that the government has it, go back to
> your embassy and have them issue an emergency passport because you “lost” yours.

> Get out.

How? How do I get past the airport? They actually would be happy for me to stay just a bit longer, and pull the right strings to fix the visa, it's just that the people with the pull are angry with the other owner who wanted an expat, and now that owner won't pay because the owners are squabbling among themselves.

I am in limbo. It would be an embarrassment for parents to find out, so they will make sure nothing happens as far as it being reported. But they aren't willing to take the step for me to up and leave. I have even told them I am more than happy to leave (the side that doesn't want expats at the school) and I am more than willing to provide a 'cover story' (i.e. I have to go home immediately and tend to a gravely ill parent) so that parents won't start asking questions.

But if there was a way to just leave at the airport...?

Thank you for writing @sid
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by sid »

There’s no way to leave at the airport without a passport. Once long ago I entered a third world country while the immigration department was on strike, so I didn’t show a passport to anyone, but I doubt you have the time to wait for that unlikely situation.

Don’t underestimate how bad this might get. A telling story: https://internationalschoolsreviewdiscu ... r-support/

You have a place to live, good. Why are you relying on money from relatives to eat? Is the school not paying you? The money situation is very confusing. Do you have money to leave if you get a passport? If so, apply for an emergency replacement and get out.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Caution

Post by PsyGuy »

No its: (A) It doesnt make sense; (B) The story keeps changing.

First the IS is broke, then the IS is broke but the owners arent, then its the IS isnt really broke its two owners arguing over who should pay your visa renewal. That still doesnt make sense because the cost of that isnt very high. If the IS can afford to absorb your housing they can afford the visa renewal.
Then theres the story of your own coin. Its not even the middle of the month and you cant afford to feed yourself and first it was a friend and then a relative that sent you some emergency funds, but how did you make it to the end of the month the last month and the month before that?
You have housing but youre not getting paid or your salary isnt anywhere close enough to meet your basic needs for the month.
The LW keeps repeating the same thing about both the parents and the embassy. The embassy wont help and wont escort them out and half the parents want the LW to stay and they would be very upset about the LWs mistreatment.
Now the IS apparently would swoop into the rescue if anything bad happened with immigration.

This is just a prelude to a solicitation for donations, if only some generous people were to help the LW out with their fines and their costs they could go to the airport and leave. The LW is adamant that they are going to stay put until someone comes to their rescue.
INeedHelp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:44 am

Re: MONTHS later--found out school did not do my visa. Help!

Post by INeedHelp »

sid wrote:
> There’s no way to leave at the airport without a passport.

The passport I have. Actually the school does, but if I request it back, I don't think they are going to deny it. One side of ownership was going to 'fix things' until they found out the cost; now they expect the other side--the side who wanted an expat to come on board-- to pay. It seems it's almost the principle of the thing. As if it were only $10 they'd still demand the other side pay. Of course if it were only $10, I'd gladly pay.


> You have a place to live, good. Why are you relying on money from relatives to eat?
They barely pay me enough to pay for food and the like. A relative sent me money just to have a little cushion.

> If you have a passport, do you have enough money to leave?
No, not really. That's the problem.
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