Search Associates Salary Confusion

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freetofly2022
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 10:58 am

Search Associates Salary Confusion

Post by freetofly2022 »

I am a member of search and I am confused by how the salary is posted online. Here's what I mean. Your help is welcome.

Teachers with a BA and 4 years
$39000

Teachers with a MA and 8 years
$46000

Is this the Minimum (39K) to the Max (46K)? Does it start at 46K for someone with 8 years of experience? What if I have ten years of experience? Can I ask for 60k? Can someone help me figure this out so that when it comes down to negotiating I know what I am doing. Thank you.

#Freetofly
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Well there is what its supposed to mean and what it actually means:

What it is supposed to mean is that a typical IT with a bachelors/first degree and 4 years/steps of post credentialing experience in a K12/KS DS/IS (often referred to as BA+4) would reasonably expect the $39K salary and likewise an IT with a Masters/Advanced degree and 8 years/steps of post credentialing experience in a K12/KS DS/IS (often referred to as MA+8) would reasonably expect the $46K salary.

The BA+4 is not the minimum. There are likely steps for 1, 2, 3, and maybe even step 0 and there may be a less then Bachelors or a no credential band (years of experience are steps and degree categories are called bands). Likewise the MA+8 is not the maximum, its very likely the salary scale/schedule goes above step 8. Though some ISs have a maximum step that may be reported lower than 8 steps (ISs that grant a step every two years as opposed to one, and some ISs just have low steps).

The MA+8 may not be a salary you can even walk into as many ISs have caps on the maximum amount of experience you can qualify for, usually either 5 or 10 years. So you may have 8 years/steps of experience but if the IS cap is 5 years thats the highest salary you can get even if you have more years experience.

If you have 10 years experience you may be able to walk into that high of a salary if its at or below the ISs cap and if the IS has a step 10 on their salary scale and they award one step for each year of experience. Many ISs dont award full step or any step for non-K12/KS experience and may only grant partial step for experience thats pre-credential. Some ISs dont grant step for experience that isnt FTE or TRO.

What it all really means is a lot of nothing. Those points (BA+4 and MA+8) are all self reported by the ISs and there isnt any real enforcement in their accuracy or how often they are updated. Even worse they arent binding in any way. You could have a BA+4 or MA+8 and not be offerend or qualify for the stated salary in the ISs profile. You can bring it up, and any leader that isnt a total noob will explain it away as a recent update, or change by ownership, or its an error, or a typo, or input error. All youll get is a form apology if any thing.
At best you an take a look at those pairings for all the ISs in a given region and get an idea what the range of salaries are.

You can negotiate for 60K maybe. There are two types of salary scales open/public and closed/private. Open/Public scales are documented, approved and usually available for review if they arent published. They are more common in upper tier ISs. In these ISs you can ask for more coin but youre very unlikely to get it. What you can do is suggest during negotiation that you have some experience or qualification thats worth additional step or band on the salary scale.
Closed/Private scales are everything else and more common in lower tier ISs. They may be written down somewhere but youre not likely to get to look at it. They may be approved by ownership or they may just be something the HOS did themselves with their budget. Two very similar ITs may get very different coin, simply because HOss rarely are disciplined for saving the IS coin. If they can get one IT for 10K less than a comparable IT they likely will. In these ISs youre basically negotiating with a carpet or used care sales person. A maths IT might get more coin than an arts IT. In these ISs you can absolutely make an expectation/demand. You have to be willing to walk though. If they sense you will accept what they offer they will just wait you out. You can make it a hard walk or a soft walk, and if a soft walk see if they come back. You can over price your salary expectation knowing you will negotiate down while they (hopefully) negotiate up to meet somewhere in the middle. Unlike a car or a carpet though this doesnt go back and forth too many times, one too three is usually the acceptable range. Three can pushing it though and some HOSs one go past one exchange before they move on.

Its very important to understand before your interview what you want and be prepared to negotiate. You can move from interview to contract negotiation in the same meeting and it can happen fast. The bargaining table is where you get what you want. After that, especially after signing/executing the contract you will be in a very poor position to request or require any changes. A leader/recruiter might not even discuss the offer or any particulars with you. HR may just send you (often by email) a draft contract with a description in the email of the salary and other benefits and allowances (the package, salary and package combined is compensation or comp". In this case your bargaining table happens by email, but you may not be negotiating with leadership but HR. Regardless, you need to not only know your salary expectations but the value and nature of the package as well to get an idea of your total comp AND then you need to know what the contract, contact and instructional hours are. Youre then in a position to compare what is on offer with what your expectations are and possibly competing offers.
sciteach
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

Re: Search Associates Salary Confusion

Post by sciteach »

Note that the salary ranges are self reported by the school and are not always the most transparent.

In general - many of the best schools have steps which are dependent in years of experience. Often there is a limit at what step you can enter an organization at - but you can continue to climb when you are at the school. For example - a school may have 12 payment steps but the most you can enter a school at is step 8.

Also note that the wages for some schools are totally wrong and it depends on the school. Some wage estimates include all benefits before tax. Some wage estimates are for after tax without benefits. To put it simple - it's labyrinthian and there is not much Search can do about this.

American schools are often more interested in Masters and PHD's than say IB schools - which means that the Bachelor or Masters question is actually irrelevant.

So can you ask for 60K? Yes - but don't be surprised if the offer of a job is rescinded as unfortunately international teaching is a buyers market with more qualified teachers being present than looking (apart from China and some schools in the ME). If you have 10 years experience - your wage may be more than 46K but I doubt it would be anything like 60K. Think of something like a $500-$2000 step per year as more of the norm depending on the school.

There are even schools where everyone gets paid the same - and some schools where everyone gets paid different and it's mentioned in the contract that you are not allowed to discuss wages with other staff....
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Search Associates Salary Confusion

Post by Heliotrope »

In my experience, the schools that will actually negotiate with you (other than maybe giving you an extra step if you sort of deserve it) aren't usually the kind of school you'd want to work at. The school I work at now and the last two schools I worked at before would definitely not negotiate - there's a pay scale (at my current school it's public) that applies to every teachers, and no exceptions are made.
But then again, if you can negotiate a very good salary it might matter less to you whether or not the school is well-run.
Also, from what I've heard, schools that tell you not to discuss your salary with others are rarely pleasant places to work.
sciteach
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

Re: Search Associates Salary Confusion

Post by sciteach »

I agree with Helitrope on this - re : negotiating pay.

I've found that schools which are very transparent on wages (such as providing pay scales) during the interview process are often more likely to be transparent in how they run the school.

If you teach an "in demand" subject in a hardship post (say Physics in Pakistan) - then I do see a strongly likelihood in a possibility of negotiating salary.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

Except @Heliotrope doesnt actually know if they dont negotiate or that no exceptions were made but only knows that they were told they dont negotiate and no exceptions are made. So while you arent going to likely be successful just asking for a higher salary an IT can certainly make a pitch that something they have is worth additional step. That would be negotiating an exception and you can do that.

This is why ISs with closed/private scales tend to be found in lower tier ISs and upper tier ISs tend to use open/public scales.
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