The International Schools Review Forum

I'm currently in my second year of university in Canada, majoring in Arts. After graduation, I intend to pursue a BEd degree, with hopes to work at an international school afterward. However, if I do not get into this program, I have another plan. I would move back home to Asia and work as an EA at an international school where I will work for my PGCE at the same time. I do not want to reveal too much information due to privacy issues, but I know that the PGCE route would 100% work due to connections. My concerns are that after I graduate with a hypothetical (BEd degree), I won't be instantly teaching at a top-tier international school within the province. If I choose the PGCE route, I would be gaining work experience as an EA at a top international school, which I could then leave afterward to teach at another school. I don't know which would look better on my CV, and I also want to have a good impression as a fresh teacher. In addition, I plan to move to the UK in the future, where I believe a PGCE may be more recognized than a BEd (but I'm not 100% sure). What should I do? Thanks.

If you are in Canada, do the BEd. But that would never get you into a top Canadian private school as a new teacher. It is simply the entry point. Do two years domestic teaching in Canada. THEN go overseas. You can go to the UK with your BEd (been there done that) and can convert it easily into QTS given your two years experience in Canada. If you are hoping to get into a good UK school, public or government, plan on being in the UK awhile, because the only ones which will hire you are schools in Serious Weakness (special measures schools cannot hire OTTs - overseas trained teachers) or bargepole schools (as in, "I wouldn't touch that school with a bargepole").

Going overseas and being a TA while doing a PGCE online will limit you in some countries which do not recognize online degrees. It also doesn't guarantee immediate hire at the school you are a TA at.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Thanks for the informative reply. Would it be possible to get a position in a top Canadian private school after teaching for two years at a domestic school, or would I still be better off going overseas? I ask this because I may plan to return to Canada in the future since I have dual citizenship between Canada and another country in Asia. If I were to go overseas back home to complete the work as a TA, I would be doing my PGCE online and in-person since I can gain practicum experience at the school where I would work. Also, would you have any recommendations for schools with the BEd in Canada? I was looking at UBC mainly because the program is only 11 months in length, and it also offers IB certification post-graduation. There is also OISE with their MT, but I hear it's mainly a money grabber. I also hear that Queen's is great but to be completely honest, I don't want to go elsewhere in Canada because most reputable BEd programs are 12+ months in length, whereas the PGCE route would also be less than a year in length.

Do two years domestic in Canada. Go overseas. Depending on your teaching area, you will be in greater or lesser demand.Choose your schools wisely. They don't have to be all the tier 1s that people mention, but should be reputable. It will take more than two years domestically to get to a good private school - but the same time internationally would be an asset.

I strongly disagree with @SJ. While its the closest to a consensus in a contested issue, that 2 years post credentialing experience is the accepted bar to entry in IE, I dont see how thats going to work for you getting those years in CAN. Youre background being in arts, thats a very saturated field in CAN. Youre likely to be sitting on your hands for years waiting for a vacancy to start getting that experience, and when that opportunity does materialize its not likely to be a anything near a top independent DS. Is it possible, sure, is it probable, not unless you know someone in a top CAN DS that can hire you.
What I dont see is why it has to be a B.Ed or a PGCE and the TA appointment. If the in you have for the IS appointment is that strong why cant you do the B.Ed and then go to the IS with a western recognized credential?
The CAN credential will get you QTS in the UK though you will be an ECT by the time youre applying. Experience isnt necessary for QTS, currently. The reverse is not true. While you could use a PGCE to meet some of the requirements and your field experience may be transferable, its not nearly as easy a pathway to get a CAN credential.

What kind of PGCE are you getting? Online PGCEs are either a PGCEi that doesnt result in QTS or they are a PGCEi but the Uni is also an AO provider and youre actually doing a PGCEi and AO through the same program and that does result in QTS?

DSs under special measures can absolutely hire QTS holders who received it through OTT. Generally a DS under special measures can not appoint new ECTs (NQTs), however it is up to the inspectorate supervising a special measures DS to permit an ECT to serve induction.

@PG - the arts is the Faculty of Arts, which includes subjects such as Geography, Literature, History, Linguistics, and more. The job market for teachers in Canada is not moribund and more and more of my friends are at the point where they are retiring in the next 3-5 years. Many of them are teachers in the social sciences/Arts.

@SJ

Thats your guess @SJ. The LW only stated "majoring in Arts", it could mean a humanities field, it could mean a subject in the fine arts. Even assuming you are right and it is humanities, while humanities is less saturated and has more demand than the fine arts, CAN provinces arent desperate for humanities DTs, and while there are some bottom tier DSs that the LW might make the short list thats not a short list of 1 but thats not relevant because the LW doesnt want a bottom tier DS, they want an upper tier DS and those DSs have lots of candidates with better and longer resumes to choose from. Even then waiting 5 years or even 3 years is a lot of wasted time when the LW has an in for a nice upper tier IS. There is little rational going the CAN DE pathway, too many unknowns over too much time when theres a known option in IE thats exactly what the LW wants.

Another suggestion which works specifically for Canadian students.

Finish your degree, then complete the PGDE at one of the Scottish universities. This then gives you provisional registration in Scotland, but also potential registration in Ontario. You can then either try to complete a probation year in Scotland (difficult to get places) or return to Canada and teach for a year, and get your full registration. This is the equivalent of QTS and is recognised as such by schools internationally (and if they don't, it's dead easy to convert - literally just takes an email.)

Here's some info from the University of Edinburgh:
https://www.ed.ac.uk/files/imports/file ... Canada.pdf

and some from the University of Strathclyde:
https://www.strath.ac.uk/studywithus/su ... hing/pgde/

I very briefly considered the PGDE route as @expatscot and its just worse.
First, the CAN route will result in full registration that will result in QTS directly without the deficiency year of teaching. The PGCE route also results in QTS though as an ECT (NQT).
Second, its no more stronger an option for CAN registration than it is the PGCE route.
Third, that teaching year is even harder than it is in CAN. Not only does the IT have the same resume with a lot of white space unlike CAN they will need a visa and the bargepole DSs in Scotland that will entertain that are going to be no better than those in CAN. There is no better a market in Scotland for an arts or humanities IT than there in in CAN, at least the LW has citizenship for CAN and doesnt need a visa as they have a right to work in CAN.
Fourth, the LW doesnt want a low tier DS anywhere especially when they have a sure thing upper tier IS in Asia they can slide into.

@PG there is reference to a school the OP would work at. No mention of 'upper tier' given. ;-)

@SJ

Yes they do, the LW states in line 5-6 of their initial post "If I choose the PGCE route, I would be gaining work experience as an EA at a top international school," what part of "TOP international school" [emphasis added] do you find confusing in regard to 'upper tier'?

I know folk who think the ‘top’ international school is something other than what it really is. To use your words - it’s all relative!

@SJ

Internalized vs. externalized perceptions dont matter in this case. Its relative, but its relative in this case to what is in the LWs head. Whatever this EA IS is they think highly of it compared to everything else that would be interested in the LWs resume.

Thanks for the replies. I forgot about this website, so my apologies for the lack of answers. To provide more specific context, when I mentioned my degree in arts, I was thinking of either English or Fine Arts (or perhaps teaching both of these subjects). I understand that the market for these subjects in CAN is incredibly saturated but isn't it like in every country worldwide?

Anyways, I've had a lot of time to think about my decision, and I've also decided to include HKU's PGDE, UCL's PGCE, and Harvard/Stanford's MAT. I also constantly hear about Sunderland's PGCE and how many teachers use it in HK (I may consider moving here too- but I feel like the rank is lacking?).

I don't necessarily still know if the location of where you get your teaching credential matters much, but my main goal is to graduate ASAP and start working. I don't care about education as much as I do about work experience. I love teaching because I find it incredibly rewarding, but I don't want to set myself back a few years by choosing the wrong 'school' that may impact where and the # of job offers I can receive in the future.

Also, the 'top international school' I mentioned is in similar rank to Bangkok's Patana school (to give some hint).

@safeway99

Demand moves in cycles, in some western regions though those cycles are very narrow and small and Im comfortable with the claim there is no demand for arts. There are countries though that have broader and larger cycles that have greater demand for arts ITs.

The rank for Sunderland is lacking but HKs registered status is a professional grade credential and the Academic/PGCEi is a non-QTS route of getting a credential with little requirement for field work. Its a means to an end but its an end with value.

Where matters but only if the where is a Global Ivy compared to elsewhere. Just having Global Ivy Unis on your resume even as a studnt still working on their degree has value.
You may wish to also consider Oxfords MSc. Teacher Education.