Teaching in the UK

star32569
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 8:31 pm

Teaching in the UK

Post by star32569 »

Someone mentioned they worked there and I wanted to know what the work conditions are like and if it is difficult for Americans to work there.
Mathsman
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:35 pm

Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by Mathsman »

star32569 wrote:
> Someone mentioned they worked there and I wanted to know what the work
> conditions are like and if it is difficult for Americans to work there.

It's quite different than the US curriculum schools I've taught at. Chances are you'll be asked to teach over a number of grades. If you teach a core subject you likely will only have one of each class, non core maybe 2 or 3. I know a few Americans who have struggled with this.

On the other hand, outside of the independent sector, extra curriculars aren't normally expected.

Behaviour can be bad, but manageable. Public schools are called state schools, private schools are called public schools, color has a u in it, and if you forget to toast to the Queen we'll drown you in tea.

Ease of getting a job will depend on your subject. I teach maths (note the s) and every school I've worked at our visited in the UK had at least 1 (sometimes many more) foreign teachers. I guess demand for geography or such will be lower.
sid
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Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by sid »

Let’s not forget the huge difference in grading practices. A “good” grade in the UK might be shockingly poor in the US.
Mathsman
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:35 pm

Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by Mathsman »

sid wrote:
> Let’s not forget the huge difference in grading practices. A “good” grade
> in the UK might be shockingly poor in the US.

Is just a totally different approach, I actually think its the USA that's out of step with most curricula here. American tests seem to value memorisation and minimising errors on simpler questions, so 90% is a totally reasonable score. Most European (and other Anglo) tests focus on reasoning on harder questions, so 70-80%is more reasonable.

Having taught AP, A level, IBDP, leaving cert, and pre-u, AP is the one I wouldn't go back to. It's no fun and not great preparation for university.

Tldr: percentages may differ, but the grades are not necessarily better or worse, just teasing different things.
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by sid »

Sorry, I didn't mean to appear judgy. I am not. The practices are different, and teachers changing curriculum will need to adjust their practices. Far be it from me to say that either approach is better than the other.
Mathsman
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:35 pm

Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by Mathsman »

sid wrote:
> Sorry, I didn't mean to appear judgy. I am not. The practices are
> different, and teachers changing curriculum will need to adjust their
> practices. Far be it from me to say that either approach is better than the
> other.

Not at all! I can get a bit defensive on this as I've a lot of experience with American teachers with a real superiority complex. Just wanted to ensure that different approaches don't necessarily mean one way is better than the other.
shadowjack
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Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by shadowjack »

I taught in the UK. It was a paradigm shift to get my head around. If you are teaching KS 1, 2, or 3, actual marks really mean nothing. All that matters is predicted grades. That's the standard.

If Secondary, your school may stream into sets - with set 1 being the top students in a year/subject, and set 5 being the bargepole students who are hellish unless you can connect with them and win them on to your side.

Where the rubber hits the road is Key Stage 3 (KS3), corresponding to grade 9 and 10, where students take a range of GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) subjects . These exams are like IB eAssessment in grade 10, or IB final exams in grade 12. There are a range of agencies that offer GCSE courses and evaluations - EdExcel, AQSA, and more. Being able to transition from percentage grade levels to standards based grade levels and rubric based GCSE assessment is key.

If you teach grade 11 and 12 subjects/students, then you are at A* or A level courses. These are like GCSE's but they are deeper and narrower in many regards than a North American grade 11/12 curriculum, and that includes AP. I think even with IBDP - the A levels are just that much more focused. That's only my opinion however. I did teach both GCSE and A level during my time in the UK and it was a valuable experience

If you are a flexible, student-centred teacher whose discipline methodology does not involve allowing students to wind you up to where you are yelling at them, you can do well. Just understand that as a non-Brit, you might not get the choicest classes.
popgirl
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Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by popgirl »

You're close. It's roughly as follows: (KS = Key Stage)
Primary school:
KS1 - Years 1 and 2 (KG and Grade 1)
KS2 - Years 3 to 6 (Grades 2 to 5)
Secondary school:
KS3 - Years 7 to 9 (Grades 6 to 8)
KS4 - Years 10 & 11 (Grades 9 and 10) GCSEs (or sometimes iGCSEs) are generally taken at the end of Year 11.
KS5 - Years 12 & 13 (Grades 11 and 12) A levels (or sometimes the IB diploma) are generally taken at the end of Year 13.

As Scots will tell you ad nauseam, they have their own system north of the border. Wales and NI kind of follow the above system with some local adaptations and differences.

It's true that setting is common in Maths, sometimes Science and Foreign Languages. English, the Humanities, Design, PE and the Arts tend to be taught in mixed ability groups.

Grading in Primary and KS3 (aka Middle School) is generally what you guys would call standards or criterion based. This has been the case since at least the late 1990s. GCSE and A level assessment have similar systems to the IB diploma. If you've taught the IB in grades 11 and 12, you'll pick up GCSE and A level assessment practices pretty quickly. (for those of you that have taught Cambridge's iGCSE or A level, the UK based exams are different).

As for the behaviour issues in the state system, sadly it can be true.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Its not so different from the US/CAN/AUS, especially at SLL. Theres some adjustment to scope, sequence, and alignment and there are subjects (such as History) that can be really eye opening (the American War of Independence is a snippet if anything), theres a different trend in the reading list for literature (though Chaucer, Milton and the Bard are still highly represented), and theres some obvious differences in civics, poli.sci. and economics but from PHE to the sciences, maths, ICT, theater, art, music, etc. highly congruent. cellular respiration and factoring a binomial dont change. When you teach it changes but what that lesson is in the push is pretty much the same.

In secondary you will likely have a lot more preps as you often teach an increased number of differing subject classes as well as grade levels. Though you will have less planning to do. Theres a master syllabus and if your in a DS with any decent marks students will know and expect what to do day to day, because the curriculum is very focused on maximizing student exams, because exams unlike most US state high stakes testing actually matters to their success and performance.

ASPs arent really a thing, but they arent so much a thing in the US either. If your doing some ASP in the US like coaching your getting XDC coin for it.

The maintained sector (regulated DSs equivalent to public DSs in the US) have the same problem in finding high needs teachers as much as US states are. Part of the issue was that in recent history there was a strict MPS and UPS (Main Pay Scale and Upper Pay Scale) that has more or less gone away, because it was really hard for England to keep edus in the classroom. Coin was abysmal. Now theres a minimum (much like individual US states have a state minimum DT salary) and theres an upper but a lot of room for DTs to negotiate salary for themselves.

Behavior can be bad but its classroom behavior thats verbal and maybe, maybe very, very lite contact. A lot much like the US depends what type of DS. If its an independent DS (private DS) then the Headmaster/Headmistress can easily give permenant expulsion. Ive seen a student get expelled where the student in frustration lightly 'pushed' the DT which was characterized later as moving past the DT. There were a whole bunch of apologies over the course of the week and the student was reinstated but there was never an issue again after that. Ive also seen DTs get knocked out by a student and they got a couple days exclusion (suspension), they also got a police caution. UK DSs have to keep their expulsion numbers down as well, theres only so much space in secure DSs (a BMU campus). You have a FAR FAR better experience when the DS has something below them to send the student to, but once they get to the bottom, theres nowhere to go to. However you have much much much much much less situations like student active shooters or shanking or gang violence. The other difference is that behavior problem tend to be more passive. The students who dont care and dont want to listen or learn will sit in the back and pretty much keep to themselves. They arent typically active antagonists during class.

@Sid doesnt really understand the difference in approaches. I tend to concur with prior contributors, the UK curriculum and approach goes into greater depth and much more higher order thinking. The US system tends to emphasis knowing and recall assessment tasks that focus on tabulating trivial errors. Its just another type of grade inflation. Then again a US HS diploma is more an indicator of resilience and persistence than competence, whereas in England and most of the rest of the WE a SLL qualification especially at A/A* mans someone actually know how to do something other than make TikTok videos.
The US/AP approach is absolutely worst.

Predicted grades really are the whole cupcake and the Hello Kitty sprinkles. There can be an are tracks in England DSs, but again it depends where you are at. Its more 'honors', Uni-Prep, vocational, and foundational, and the foundational students can be really unmotivated. I wouldnt use barge pole but I wouldnt chastise its use either, again a lot depends on where you are.

Students take GCSEs/IGCSEs in years 10 or 11 (the end of KS4) which is the first SLL, then students do KS5 which is typically A/A*^1, KS5 is typically known as sixth form. KS5 isnt compulsory but students cant legally stop edu until they are 18, though there is no practical consequence for doing so (after GCSEs).
Students take national exams at the end of KS1 (year 2) and KS2 (year 6).
Primary isnt much different than primary anywhere its focused on literacy and numeracy with a focus on reading development but a little stronger on maths.

Planning is easier, Ive been handed schemes of work (curriculum guides) that were typed on a type writer. You can chalk and talk your way through a fair number of courses.
As long as you dont hit a student (even in self defense), sleep with a student, or embezzle coin, youre going to be okay. Parents dont come in and curse you out, threaten to sue you and then key your car. Most of those meeting you wont be there anyway. Again though, it depends where you are.

^1 The reason they are called A/A*; the "A" stands for 'advance' and is divided into two years the first yeas is called AS (Advanced Supplemental) and like DIP exams in the IB can be taken independently of getting the Baccalaureate, an AS certificate is a qualification in itself. The second year is called AS2 (Advanced Supplemental 2) because its the second year. You cant take AS2 without taking AS and you sit the entirety of the exam (AS and AS2) at the same time. In the first year course (AS) the highest mark you can get is an "A" like the traditional concept of a 'A' grade in the US. A* is more like a US A+, which is the highest mark you can get in an AS2 subject, you cant get an A* in the first AS year subject.
tangchao
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:16 pm

Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by tangchao »

Be careful!

Yes, there are good schools in the UK, but these are not the ones that will be interested in you. Jobs at the few good schools in the UK will be spoken for by local teachers. It is the problem schools that will simply not be able to fill their vacancies, and that is where you come in as a foreigner.

I started my career in one of these places. Let me tell you, I would not allow my dog in there.
shopaholic
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:42 pm

Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by shopaholic »

Yes, be careful.

I knew someone who worked at one of the international schools near London. Their description of the work conditions sounded appalling. Those schools scrape the bottom in a country with its own excellent independent schools.
shadowjack
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by shadowjack »

Popgirl - you are right. I crossed KS3 with KS4.

That said, as a new UK teacher the very first assignment I returned to a class had students shaking their heads and going, "Eh sir, what's this?" 73% is meaningless to a UK student, just as a 5 would be meaningless to a North American non-IB student. The paradigm for arriving at those grades is also quite different - in North America, a question from the text might have 3 facts, 1 descriptive element, and 1 explanative element. At 1 for each fact, 2 for the descriptive, and 3 for the explanative, that question would be worth 8 marks. 5 questions like that would be 40 marks, out of an assignment bin weighted for 40% of the students total mark for the course. Contrast that with a standards based assignment in the UK - it's cats and dogs, as I learned. Not every teacher can wrap their head around it. I know it took me awhile.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@tangchao

I wouldnt have an issue allowing Kerberos to roam those DSs.

@SJ

If your students find percentages meaningless, your students have bigger problems. While percentages may not be very useful to that population of students, they are not absent of absolute meaning. This is nothing more than an formulaic conversion of scores. As an edu yourself this should be rather rudimentary dimensional ana1ysis for an IT.

Whats so hard about it really. Its a different methodology of factoring scores, this is 15 minutes on average, twice as much for an IT who really really suffers from numeracy incompetence, and a third of the time if that for an IT with a background in IB. Of all my challenges as a new DT in England, the marking scheme was not particularly high on my list of issues.
shadowjack
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Re: Teaching in the UK

Post by shadowjack »

@PG - I can assure you that for UK students, percentages are meaningless. They have ZERO relevance to any marks they are used to. Been there done that, got the badge to prove it.

Any UK teacher who showed up to a new class and at the start of the year gave a percentage grade on the first assignment is going to be looked at very strangely and the students will be quite perplexed. The percentage bears no relevant reference to any grading system they have been part of.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Sj

I assure you my UK students and many I have met, had a conceptual understanding of percentages. Relevance and meaningful are not synonyms
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