Search Job Fair Demise

Coimbra
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:15 am

Re: Search Job Fair Demise

Post by Coimbra »

As a recruiter I hate the online fairs because of the unreliable technology and when video calling the conversations always feel even more awkward but I have also always hated the in-person fairs because I don't like taking so much time out of my schedule and stay at a hotel room. There is def a benefit of someone actually sitting across from you so you do get a better sense of what they are really like but I wish my school would be in Bangkok so I could just have breakfast at home, do the interviews and go home straight after.
I do think the in-person fairs with the same caliber schools as before will return though.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Coimbra

I hear that on the forum a lot that the fairs are so dreadful and exhausting, yet every year at BKK theres a a majority of leaders that love the trip on the ISs dime and the evening social opportunities that BKK offers.

Fairs will continue as long as leaders want them.
Coimbra
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:15 am

Re: Reply

Post by Coimbra »

Well I do not like them but I cannot speak for everyone. I do not know many recruiters that really enjoy them but no doubt some will tho. Makes sense they go and have a drink after a whole day of recruiting but most recruiters do not do take advantage of being in Bangkok imo. After a full day of interviewing I don't have much energy either so I understand.
popgirl
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:02 pm

Re: Reply

Post by popgirl »

PsyGuy wrote:
> Fairs will continue as long as leaders want them.


I agree. I'm not so cynical as to believe it's quite for the same reasons as you though. My old Principal used to say it was because she could get a better feel for the candidate in a 1-2-1 meeting than on Skype / Zoom. She preferred a final in person meeting before they signed a contract. I believed her. There were plenty of other better opportunities to travel, network and have fun on the school's dime than recruitment fairs. Leadership conferences for a start. Not that she was a big one for those either.
Heliotrope
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Re: Search Job Fair Demise

Post by Heliotrope »

Agree with @Coimbra and @popgirl that in-person fairs will still happen in the future because recruiters believe the in-person experience gives them a better sense of the candidate, and also because it's an efficient way to interview many candidates in-person in a short amount of time. It's what I've heard recruiters say and I do agree - I also get a better sense of the admin when I have an in-person interview, and having a bunch of interviews in 2 days and possibly walking away with a job at the end is better than weeks of searching, emailing and Skype-interviews across timezones. The in-person preference is also part of the reason why some schools fly in the final two or three candidate for an interview.
@PsyGuy thinks recruiters enjoy job fairs. I have only heard otherwise, but I'm sure a few recruiters with bad marriages do enjoy them.
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Search Job Fair Demise

Post by sid »

Agree with Heliotrope et al.
I appreciate what recruiting fairs have to offer in terms of getting a better feel for candidates, plus efficiency and the opportunity to focus solely on recruiting for a few days straight, with all parties likewise focused.
That is not the same as enjoying recruiting fairs. And as for enjoying Bangkok, I consider it lucky if I have 30 minutes of free time on any given day. More likely, I'll be stuck indoors without leaving the hotel for several days straight, surviving on whatever finger food happens to appear. I've had days with 14 interviews and a total food tally of 2 small sandwiches and 3 cookies. No, it's not fun. But it is effective.
jschott
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Search Job Fair Demise

Post by jschott »

buffalofan wrote:
> Their model worked fine 10 years ago.

It did? Nothing ever made me feel like I was a bottom-feeding loser in the wrong profession like attending one of those meat-market fairs.

Honestly I suspect that interviewing at McDonald's would offer more dignity for the applicant.
FV2020
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:21 am

Re: Search Job Fair Demise

Post by FV2020 »

What I don’t understand is why there is such a huge difference in the interview process at fairs (especially online ones). I’ve interviewed with 8 schools this season (not at fairs) and they’ve all had multiple rounds of interviews with different admins each interview, screening questions, and lengthy reference check processes. I don’t get how recruiters are magically able to apply the same rigorous recruiting standards and all accomplish this in the span of a couple days just because it’s a fair. I mean if recruiting can be accomplished in 3 days, couldn’t admin just schedule a weekend to complete all their recruiting regardless of attending a fair?
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Search Job Fair Demise

Post by sid »

No, because the candidates are not all prioritizing that weekend just because the recruiter is.
fine dude
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Location: SE Asia

Re: Search Job Fair Demise

Post by fine dude »

Irony dies a million deaths in IT recruitment irrespective of the format:
- A 60-year old administrator drawing a high 6-figure salary refusing to hire a 50-year old veteran teacher as s/he is 'expensive.'
- A shiny 21st century school brochure tells you nothing about the quality of teaching or rigour of the curriculum.
- There is no ed tech innovation in IT, it's just a bunch of apps and play. Majority of ed tech coordinators can't code nor do they have the willingness to learn programming.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Coimbra

Of course youre going to say that, youre a leader. Theres no benefit for you to say you like the social opportunities or even that you know a majority of leaders that like the social opportunities.
I know and have observed far more leaders that like them at fairs than those that dont, but that may be range restricted as leaders that dont like them dont go.

@popgirl

I could be inclined to agree with you, if I just didnt know better. Whatever groups you want to divide them in (and Ive done this before) the group of recruiters that spent the first 25 minutes bragging about the shopping they did, their golf game that weekend, the young IT candidate they interviewed previously, their twin dogs (and how stressful the flight was for the dogs). Not to mention the lecherous eyes, flirting (sorry teasing) at the social. The taxi's outside of the hotel on the first night with all the male leaders heading out for dinner (until 1 or 2 am). If that group was somehow smaller than the combined groups of leaders who dont know how to interview (tell me about yourself questions), and the ones that do, I might be inclined to agree with you.

@Heliotrope

You dont really have any data though to support the validity of recruiters "feeling" for a candidate do you? I know you don't because the prevailing research actually shows that feelings, intuition, etc.. are really very inaccurate and unreliable. Ive written this before even a sociopath can pretend to be whatever for 30 minutes, and if recruiters were that good at profiling they wouldnt be in IE leadership, they would be profilers.

@Sid

You appreciate what fairs offer because the dynamics are in favor of leaders. That the pressure and the 'not wanting to leave without an offer' makes candidates feel like failures at worst and that they wasted a lot of good time and coin at best.
You can order a variety of meals both from the hotel and from outside the hotel. Some recruiters have done their interviews outside. Some recruiters do their interviews at the barr.

@jschott

Because they are meat market casting calls. ITs are the commodity, they are the cow.

@FV2020

Agree with @Sid, its mostly a timing concern. Fairs are a save the date, timing and proximity event. It brings X recruiters and Y IT candidates to the same place at the same time. An IS could do that independently or group together and do that but then youd have a fair. An IS posting a vacancy that wants a meaningful number of applicants in the pool has to provide a reasonable application period, then screening, then selection. With a fair all that timing and proximity is dictated and prearranged and the hosting agency has done a portion of the vetting.

Mostly because they dont finish the entire process in three days. There isnt a contract or intent letter that isnt voidable days, weeks, months later if the process that continues post fair produces anything.

@fine dude

Most brochures are not intended for ITs, and the ones that are, are adopted from parent material. Do you really expect an IS to spend the coin on marketing/sales materials to state their exam scores are average at best. Thats a waste of coin.
The vast majority of parents those materials are created and directed towards wouldnt know how to evaluate rigor of the curriculum or quality of the ITs.

There are ed.tech coordinators that can code, and more than you think. The sentiment of a majority of them is that they arent going to produce IP that would belong to the IS for IT coin. Its apps and play because for what an IS pays in salary those ed.tech coordinators believe apps and play is all that coin buys the IS.
Heliotrope
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Re: Discussion

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> You dont really have any data though to support the validity of recruiters
> "feeling" for a candidate do you?

I said: "in-person fairs will still happen in the future because recruiters believe the in-person experience gives them a better sense of the candidate."
The key word being 'believe', and as long as they do, the fairs will probably continue to happen. Whether or not that belief is correct is up for debate.
I'd say it also depends on the person - some will be better at getting a somewhat accurate reading.
So far whenever I felt a recruiter was a decent person and I ended up taking the job, they have turned out to be just that, and the two times I had doubts they were indeed not great people, although not awful either, so my experiences at both schools were still positive.


> I know you don't because the
> prevailing research actually shows that feelings, intuition, etc.. are
> really very inaccurate and unreliable.

The research doesn't really point to an in-person first impressions being either mostly accurate or mostly inaccurate. The results are very mixed - some research shows it's definitely accurate enough to be helpful, other research is less conclusive or shows only a small benefit. There are studies by prestigious universities to back up both claims, so we just don't know yet.


> Ive written this before even a
> sociopath can pretend to be whatever for 30 minutes, and if recruiters were
> that good at profiling they wouldnt be in IE leadership, they would be
> profilers.

Yep, there will be sociopaths that have mislead leadership and got a job that way, just like there have been nervous candidates that have severely misrepresented themselves and missed out despite being better teachers. One of my colleagues who is a disaster at interviews only got her job because another colleague of mine strongly recommended her with our leadership and told them about her poor interview skills, so they took extra time to interview her, and she's one of the best teachers I know.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

And I wrote "You dont really have any data though to support the validity of recruiters "feeling" for a candidate do you?". I agree "believe" is the operative term, the two statements need not be in conflict.
We disagree, accuracy is a a valid, reliable and objective function, the process of "reading" a candidate does not fit those definitions.
Your experiences may also be the result of confirmation bias.

The research really does know, its not inconclusive. The high quality research shows that professional intuition or "reading" doesnt exist. The low quality research that confirms the ability is often flawed and extrapolated from interviewing skills that occur with a subject over a prolonged period of time, not a single or a couple 30-60 minute sessions.

Another equally valid conclusion is knowing they were highly recommended the candidate played being poor at interviews to garner sympathy and additional time. Much like the student who claims to be 'bad at testing'.

There will also be leaders who are socio/psycho paths who can pretend to be all sorts of compassionate, competent leaders.

Im going to invoke my "reading" skills and conclude that this is a topic where 'we disagree'.
Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

Some Ivy League studies (also applying to the first impressions you get in interview settings) disagrees with you, while some other Ivy League studies do agree.
Anyway, it's besides the point: as long as recruiters think they get a better read on a candidate when interviewing in-person, along with the other (perceived or actual) benefits of an in-person fair, these will likely continue to take place like before.

Your 'reading skills' are spot on, we disagree.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Being an Ivy league institution doesnt make the research better or the data stronger, but no those studies dont.

Fairs will continue as long as leaders want them, the reasons are immaterial and irrelevant. If interviewing has zero predictive validity and leaders still wanted them, they would still happen.
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