New to The Game...

sid
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: New to The Game...

Post by sid »

Nope. She will not.
Once I get to 2/2/2, I’m out, unless there’s some other amazing reason to proceed.
PG strongly feels that 2/2/2 etc makes no difference. But PG is not a recruiter, nor can she summon others to agree with her. All her claims in this area are her personal ones, without backing.
sid
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: New to The Game...

Post by sid »

To be fair though, this hypothetical 2/2 ad infinitum beast does indeed have an edge in applying to bottom tier schools. The 2/2/4/6 candidates will not even be applying, and the other candidates will include multiple.5/1/.5/1 candidates. 2/2/2 wins there, if you call that a win.
secondplace
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: New to The Game...

Post by secondplace »

'Hypothetical Teacher A that has a CV with four schools with stays of 2/2/4/6 years will have an edge over hypothetical teacher B with a CV with seven schools where they stayed 2/2/2/2/2/2/2 years, assuming all references are equally positive.'

This is true.

2/2/2/2/2 only gets a look in late in the year when the unexpected starts happening.
Illiane_Blues

Re: New to The Game...

Post by Illiane_Blues »

At my school if your last 3 schools were 2-2-2 your application goes on the rejection pile.

At my 1st school they only cared if you were certified and could string a sentence together so we did have lots of the 2-2-2-etc. type of teachers but this was not one were you would want to stay for more than 2 or maybe 3 years.
unsure
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: New to The Game...

Post by unsure »

@sid What about 3-3-4-3. Is that much better than 2-2-2-2 ?
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: New to The Game...

Post by sid »

Massively.
shadowjack
Posts: 2119
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Re: New to The Game...

Post by shadowjack »

Unsure, when I look at CVs I am looking for a few basics.

1. Have they taught the subject/program before. It is nice if you have actually taught Psychology in the DP, instead of teaching Social Studies in grade 7.

2. What schools have you been at? Do I know the admin or teachers there that I can, if interested, do an informal check on you?

3. How long is your average stay. Ideally I want to get a minimum of 3 years out of a new hire. Any more is gravy, any less is break even, but no net benefit to my school, programs, or students, because at any school the first year is learning how things work and teaching, learning the students, and the second year, if leaving, is a full time job to find a job on top of teaching.

So yes, a 3/3/3 or even a 2/2/3/3/ is better than a 2/2/2/2. The latter tells me that you have something going on - and that it might be better if I am not part of it. Or, you have only worked at not-very-good schools and haven't figured international education yet. That's a bit worrying to me. Or... if you did 2 years at a stellar school, that you had other issues that led the school to part ways with you. I remember a hire from a great Tier 1 Asian school to my school at the time - and they lasted a year before leaving. That led us to really evaluate potential hires who were 2 and done at a tier 1 moving forward...
PsyGuy
Posts: 10424
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

I do recruiting, but Im not among the @Sids of the forum whose agenda is to mitigate attrition and maturation with fear mongering. If ITs had to do 3 year contracts to benefit ISs more than breaking even than ISs would offer 3 year contracts and not 2 as the standard contract length. What the leaders and recruiters on this forum are doing is peddling fear mongering as opposed to actual incentives like coin to motivate ITs into longer periods of service. If you complete your contract and have a strong and positive reference you will be marketable regardless of staying 2 or 3 years (or 4 years for that matter).

IT A
1st 2yr: Third tier IS in the LCSA, coin is poo, and the IT can really only afford to live on the economy.
2nd 2yr: Third tier IS in China, Coin is 3x what it was in the LCSA
3rd 2yr: Floater third tier IS in China but an IB IS, the IT is appointed to teaching in the MYP and the DIP
4th 2yr: Third tier IS in Myanmar but as a Coordinator/HOD of a department and founding IB program.

IT B
1st 2yr: Bottom third tier IS in China, good coin
2nd 2yr: Third tier IS in China, better coin, still classroom IT
1st 4yr: Floater third tier IS in China, even better coin, still classroom IT

IT A is a much stronger IT candidate with only having a series of 2 yr contracts, and has a much better curve for increasing predictive success going forward. IT B would have been better served cutting that third contract to 2 years and aiming for a 2nd tier IS, which would serve the IT far better than the four years at IS three.

An IT with 2/2/2/2/2/2/2 doesnt care what the @Sids would do with their application, this IT is a traveler they dont care about the tier or quality of the IS, theyre just looking for their next passport stamp. Its not like theres some magic line that seven 2 year contracts is doable but an eighth, nope, cant happen.

The 3/3/4/3 is 13 years of your time vs. 8 years of your time at 2/2/2/2 thats 5 wasted years without any utility.
sid
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: New to The Game...

Post by sid »

A lone voice from the wilderness.
Maybe if she repeats it enough, her wish will come true.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

As opposed to the cackle of fear mongering.
Dont need a wish, its already true.
unsure
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: Discussion

Post by unsure »

PsyGuy wrote:

> 1st 2yr: Third tier IS in the LCSA,
> 3rd 2yr: Floater third tier IS in China

What is the LCSA, and what is a 'floater' third tier? Sounds revolting.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@unsure

LCSA = Latin Central South America

"Floater" Third Tier: The boundaries between tiers are very resistant to change falling or rising from one tier to another has to have a lot more than just a linear incremental increase or decrease. Think of the third tier like a water barrel, the bottom of the third tier much like the bottom of the barrel is where that slimy black mush of wood pulp as the water stagnates, etc. A "Floater" third tier IS is right at the top of the barrel floating just below the second tier but for whatever reason hasnt and doesnt push through to the second tier. Usually floater third tier ISs are somewhat comparable to second tier ISs but are missing something and/or have some disadvantage or lack some benefit (commonly its trying to break through into the second tier).
Heliotrope
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Discussion

Post by Heliotrope »

Let's do a fair comparison though:

IT A
1st school, 2 year-stay: Bottom third tier IS in China, classroom IT
2nd school, 2 year-stay: Third tier IS in China, classroom IT
3rd school, 2 year-stay: Floater third tier IS in China, classroom IT
4th school, 2 year-stay: Floater third tier IS in China, classroom IT

IT B
1st school, 2 year-stay: Bottom third tier IS in China, classroom IT
2nd school, 2 year-stay: Third tier IS in China, classroom IT
3rd school, 4 year-stay: Floater third tier IS in China, classroom IT

IT B is the stronger IT candidate.

Also, staying longer at school #3 makes them more likely to be given more responsibilities at that 3rd school which will increase their marketability even more.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

That was a fair comparison, it demonstrates that there is far more, and more important factors then just length of service and if were being fair its just as easy and fair and reasonable for IT A to have as follows:

IT A
1st school, 2 year-stay: Bottom third tier IS in China, classroom IT
2nd school, 2 year-stay: Third tier IS in China, classroom IT
3rd school, 2 year-stay: Floater third tier IS in China, classroom IT
4th school, 2 year-stay: Second tier IS in China, classroom IT

And that beats out IT B and their 4 year stay.

No it doesnt, if the 4 year IS offers such a position at 2 years to renew thats different than staying an extra 2 years and hoping for pixie dust to provide such a position.

We Disagree.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

I've never argued length of service is the only thing that's considered by recruiters, but all other factors being equal (years of experience, leadership or curriculum experience, quality of references, etc.), a teacher that has done a longer stint prior to applying will have an edge over a teacher has done three of more successive 2-and-go's prior to applying.

Length of stay at previous ISs is part of the decision-making process for a recruiter at a good school, and only having 2 year-contracts on your CV will hurt your chances. And as some recruiters and teachers in this thread have already pointed out, some school won't even consider a teacher with a string a single contracts.

Yes, we disagree.
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